Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection

[VARob]

"Resurrection and the life..." the following words by Jesus are about "The life" not "the resurrection." Believing in Jesus is how you get eternal life per John 3:16. Resurrection comes from being baptized into Christ per Romans 6:3-5.

If a person has everlasting life he will be resurrected. If he's not, then he didn't have everlasting life.

 

[VARob]

The GOSPEL is the Resurrection = not water baptism

verse?

1 Cor 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[Runningman]

If a person has everlasting life he will be resurrected. If he's not, then he didn't have everlasting life.

There is more than one kind of everlasting life. The soul can die so faith in Christ is how the soul has eternal life. The body can die, water baptism is how the glorified resurrected body is guaranteed immortality.

 

[Runningman]

1 Cor 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4) And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That's the gospel, yes, or atleast part of it. Where does that say anything about being resurrected? Water baptism verses talk about resurrection though. That's clear to me.

Christ said the gospel includes water baptism:

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:15,16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

 

[VARob]

There is more than one kind of everlasting life.

That's a new one... Either a person has everlasting life or he doesn't.

The soul can die

On that we agree! How about that!

so faith in Christ is how the soul has eternal life.

Faith in Christ is how the person has everlasting life.

The body can die, water baptism is how the glorified resurrected body is guaranteed immortality.

If you think people will be immortal without having an immortal body, I heartily disagree.

 

[VARob]

That's the gospel, yes, or atleast part of it. Where does that say anything about being resurrected?

"...he rose again the third day ..."

Water baptism verses talk about resurrection though. That's clear to me.

Christ said the gospel includes water baptism:

Matthew 28:18-20
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:15,16
15And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

I mentioned Mark 16 above. If you're KJVO, you will disagree.

Again, if you want to be water baptized, go for it. But it's not necessary for salvation.

 

[Runningman]

"...he rose again the third day ..."


I mentioned Mark 16 above. If you're KJVO, you will disagree.

I think you'll disagree with Mark 16:16 if you're anti-water baptism.

Again, if you want to be water baptized, go for it. But it's not necessary for salvation.

We don't have to always use the KJV, actually other versions are much more clearer about the intention of 1 Peter 3:21.

1 Peter 3:21 NLT
21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

 

[JeffA]

1 Peter 3:21 NLT
21And that water is a picture of baptism, which now saves you, not by removing dirt from your body, but as a response to God from a clean conscience. It is effective because of the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

More aptly:
"and water is a picture (symbol) of the immersion in the Spirit, which now saves you...

Even John the Immerser explained this.

The early Priests loved, and relied on, the fact that no one had access to scripture.
They became the "arbiters of truth".

The KJV is used for "EXACTLY" the same reason.

 

[Runningman]

More aptly:
"and water is a picture (symbol) of the immersion in the Spirit, which now saves you...

Even John the Immerser explained this.

The early Priests loved, and relied on, the fact that no one had access to scripture.
They became the "arbiters of truth".

The KJV is used for "EXACTLY" the same reason.

Doesn’t matter which version you want to use. If the version of your choosing can’t even keep within context of the passage then it’s corrupted.

The context is actually water from the great flood in the days of Noah, nothing about Spirit baptism here. Now they are saying that water baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus. That means we’ll have a resurrection like Jesus if we’re water baptized like Romans 6:3-5 says.

Romans 6:3-5
3Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
5Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was.

 

[peldom10]

We aren't getting anywhere. If you want to be water baptized, go for it.

Based on the Bible, I choose not to.

WOW...shoot t

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”
Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham.
And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”
So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

Abraham Isaac and Jacob were NEVER water baptized and yet they are saved by Faith and will be
Resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ.

The GOSPEL is the Resurrection = not water baptism

Gospel is Christ came in the flesh, shed His Blood unto death on the Cross and Resurrected on the 3rd day.

JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF is the GOSPEL of GOD and HE is the SABBATH REST of GOD

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

You do need to study the Bible;

Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) existed under the OT or OC...when no baptism existed.....baptism became a commandment under the NT NC...how could they be baptized under God's commandments...that didn't exist then?

Gospel was available to them...just different gospel than the NT.

 

[JeffA]

Doesn’t matter which version you want to use. If the version of your choosing can’t even keep within context of the passage then it’s corrupted.

The context is actually water from the great flood in the days of Noah, nothing about Spirit baptism here. Now they are saying that water baptism saves by the resurrection of Jesus. That means we’ll have a resurrection like Jesus if we’re water baptized like Romans 6:3-5 says.

Romans 6:3-5
3Or have you forgotten that when we were joined with Christ Jesus in baptism, we joined him in his death? 4For we died and were buried with Christ by baptism. And just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, now we also may live new lives.
5Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was.

I thought it was already explained that Romans 6 is NOT about WATER. Nor are most other mentions of "Baptism".
I guess it didn't stick.
Until then, this thread will either end or go on forever.

 

[Runningman]

We aren't getting anywhere. If you want to be water baptized, go for it.

Based on the Bible, I choose not to.

We might have different perspectives on what water baptism is, what water baptism does, etc but to say you chose not to get water baptized because the Bible says so is one of the most absurd things I’ve seen on this message board and that’s difficult to accomplish.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

 

[Runningman]

I thought it was already explained that Romans 6 is NOT about WATER. Nor are most other mentions of "Baptism".
I guess it didn't stick.
Until then, this thread will either end or go on forever.

I heard you, but you’re definitely wrong about that. Romans 6 is about getting baptized into Christ. Other verses about getting into Christ are clearly about water baptism. There are like a dozen different baptisms in the Bible as if that is supposed to make it less confusing.

 

[VARob]

We might have different perspectives on what water baptism is, what water baptism does, etc but to say you chose not to get water baptized because the Bible says so is one of the most absurd things I’ve seen on this message board and that’s difficult to accomplish.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion?

Cool your jets. I didn’t say that the Bible says to not get water baptized. But based on the fact that there is one baptism, and that it’s by the gift of the Holy Spirit that we are baptized into the body of Christ, it is not necessary to get water baptized.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Water baptism is for a literal resurrection.

Romans 6:4,5
4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

"Like this in His death" = Water baptism

No. This phrase refers to our UNION with Christ. Think of all the phrases like "in Him", "in Christ", etc. It's about positional truth.

All believers have been placed IN Christ. It has zero do do with water. It has everything to do with the Holy Spirit.

Eph 1:13,14
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Here are the bolded words together:

you also were included IN Christ when you believed, you were marked IN Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit.

This is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

"United with Him in His resurrection" = Literal resurrection

Of course this is literal. What you miss is the verses where "baptism" refers to the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

It's already been shown from Scripture that the baptism of the Holy Spirit isn't related to the ritual of water baptism in any way.

Cornelius, Acts 10, 11.

 

[FreeGrace2]

peldom10 said:
Is there anything you accept in scripture .........that is not been corrupted......... from God's meaning and intent?

Baptism is Required

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

isolated verses like 1 Peter 3:21 is your mainstay error

Even worse is his INTENTIONAL omission of the first part of the verse, which says "this water (literal) SYMBOLIZES the baptism that does now save." His is just very dishonest.

 

[peldom10]

I thought it was already explained that Romans 6 is NOT about WATER. Nor are most other mentions of "Baptism".
I guess it didn't stick.
Until then, this thread will either end or go on forever.

Who explained it and with what references?

Forget about Roman 6 (neither does Matt;2...et al....so what?) and study the applicable references;


Baptism is Required

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

.......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be saved then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[peldom10]

"...he rose again the third day ..."


I mentioned Mark 16 above. If you're KJVO, you will disagree.

Again, if you want to be water baptized, go for it. But it's not necessary for salvation.

Wrong.

Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

.......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be saved then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

 

[DavidTree]

Difference between salvation of the soul through faith and resurrection.



Cool. Then surely you have a verse that explains why.



verse?



Agreed.



"Resurrection and the life..." the following words by Jesus are about "The life" not "the resurrection." Believing in Jesus is how you get eternal life per John 3:16. Resurrection comes from being baptized into Christ per Romans 6:3-5.

Your response to the Gospel of God speaks loud and clear = and in a very disturbing way.
A spirit of error has attached itself to you, for you are now blatantly denying Truth.
You need to run to the LORD Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness and turn from the path you are currently on.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostles Peter and Paul have clearly articulated why the symbolism of water baptism.
It is a outward proclamation to the Jews and the World that the Messiah has come.

"A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.”

Just as the Lord's Last Supper = the Bread and Wine are symbolic of His Death and the New Covenant thru His Blood.

"For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death till He comes. "

 

[peldom10]

Romans 6 isn't talking about water baptism.

If a person is a Christian, he'll be in the rapture whether he was water baptized or not.

He is not a Christian if he has not been baptized.