Sorry, but two things, make that three, lol: first, this is not long (you should see me when I am really long-winded, lol); second, they could be called tombs, because within is the death of certain doctrines, lol; and third, I am going out of town and will not have access, so there is plenty here for anyone that desires to pick apart, lol.
This issue will never be understood in casual chats, and sometimes it is necessary to provide some cross referencing which adds to the length. I feel confident that at the very least, the posts give a start to a discussion where the singular points can be threshed out.
Okay, never said I was good at geography, but this will be the fourth and final point (lol): you are correct, you did not have eternal life, nor could be said to be eternally redeemed until you responded to God and placed your faith in Christ. Prior to that, you were still in need of having your transgressions redeemed through the Blood of Christ (His death).
And that is the same thing we see in regards to the Old Testament Saints, who were made perfect when Christ died, and are distinguished from the Church here:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The Book of Hebrews helps us to understand that it was a necessity that sins be redeemed by something better than animal death. The penalty for sin is death, and that penalty could only be removed by Christ dying in the sinner's stead. And until He did that, the Old Testament Saints awaited their perfection:
Hebrews 11:13
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
So just as you do not impose a status of being eternally redeemed and forgiven of sins prior to your conversion, even so the Old Testament Saints were not. They were just as saved as you and I, and from an eternal perspective of Election there was never a chance their eternal fate would be otherwise, but, until they were forgiven, they awaited eternal redemption.
Luke 24:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
We can see that at least some of them understood that Israel needed to be redeemed, and that is what Christ did on an eternal basis for those who would come to believe on His Name, and what He will do on a temporal basis in the Millennial Kingdom.
God bless.
This issue will never be understood in casual chats, and sometimes it is necessary to provide some cross referencing which adds to the length. I feel confident that at the very least, the posts give a start to a discussion where the singular points can be threshed out.
Okay, never said I was good at geography, but this will be the fourth and final point (lol): you are correct, you did not have eternal life, nor could be said to be eternally redeemed until you responded to God and placed your faith in Christ. Prior to that, you were still in need of having your transgressions redeemed through the Blood of Christ (His death).
And that is the same thing we see in regards to the Old Testament Saints, who were made perfect when Christ died, and are distinguished from the Church here:
Hebrews 12:22-24
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
The Book of Hebrews helps us to understand that it was a necessity that sins be redeemed by something better than animal death. The penalty for sin is death, and that penalty could only be removed by Christ dying in the sinner's stead. And until He did that, the Old Testament Saints awaited their perfection:
Hebrews 11:13
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
[SUP]40 [/SUP]God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
So just as you do not impose a status of being eternally redeemed and forgiven of sins prior to your conversion, even so the Old Testament Saints were not. They were just as saved as you and I, and from an eternal perspective of Election there was never a chance their eternal fate would be otherwise, but, until they were forgiven, they awaited eternal redemption.
Luke 24:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
We can see that at least some of them understood that Israel needed to be redeemed, and that is what Christ did on an eternal basis for those who would come to believe on His Name, and what He will do on a temporal basis in the Millennial Kingdom.
God bless.
"So we can see that eternal life has a point in time at which it becomes available to men, and that is when the Bread of Life, Jesus the Son of God...came from Heaven.
And prior to that men did not have eternal life."
Ok, that sounded like the OT believers did not even have eternal life. ..Now can you clarify?