Re: Were Men Born Again Before Pentecost?
Originally Posted by
ladylynn
Well yes the law was a schoolmaster but Israel said they could do all that God required so He gave them the law (10 Commandments) and they put a yoke around their own necks based on their human pride. They chose to be under law. So instead of God allowing them to live a life of grace, they had to live under the law. They still had to do the requirements of the law didn't they? Yes. It didn't matter if they looked forward to Jesus coming, in the mean time they had to follow the law in order to be ok with God.
So 'technically' they were under the old covenant of law and had to do what that covenant required. It was not just faith alone for them, they had to have works too. I don't understand you and crosswalk since the OT saints were UNDER a covenant. Explain please what would have happened if one of the Israelite's bypassed the blood sacrifice and went into the Holy of Holies.
What would have happened if they acted on grace and believed in the coming Savior alone for their acceptance before a Holy God?
I really look forward to both of your answers.
IMHO, Israel was a chosen people to be God's representatives on earth to the other nations. They were given the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the law, the promises and the service (Rom 9:4)
This brought with it a greater responsibility and to misuse it may mean physical death but for those Israelites who clung to God's mercy and Promises, still had eternal life. The conditional Law never abrogated the unconditional Promises.
Romans 9:4 KJVS
[4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God , and the promises;
skylove7,
Gr8grace and
chancer like this.
I will fully endorse crossnotes answer on this one.
Anyone who saw the animal sacrifice, and understood what that meant(Gospel) and trusted in the coming perfect sacrifice was saved and eternally secure in that faith.
I always thought of just a bunch of hapless, ignorant men slitting an animals throat and standing around asking ,"Now what are we doing this for?" But they knew exactly what they were doing, and knew about the coming Messiah. The Gospel was clearly represented to them and to others in the message.
Bypassed the blood sacrifice? Death. We can't bypass Christ and be saved.
crossnote likes this.
Hey you guys., I'm glad you both can agree with each other but what about my question??? How can you say that the 'conditional law never obrogated the unconditional promises'? They were UNDER covenant and ALL WAS CONDITIONAL. That is the horrible problem!! There was NO new covenant of Grace yet. So if they disobeyed, they died! We can't just say these covenant requirements were just a good idea to follow., these laws were REQUIRED. They could cling to God's mercy all they wanted but they didn't OWN the promises., the promises were not paid for. So they had to DO THE REQUIRED COVENANT DUTIES. If they didn't, they died. They suffered.
If the High Priest went into the Holy of holies and he failed by some sin he had or if he was sloppy not only did he get zapped, the whole of Israel suffered. I don't see this sweeping brush solution you guys are using to blend the covenant of law and grace together as one mixed bag. They ARE totally separate and one can not exist with the other. One has to GO.
The good news of the Gospel is that we NO longer must DO anything. Jesus paid it all.
Eph.2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. It's the finished work of Jesus Christ. It's Jesus plus nothing added to clear us of sin before a Holy and righteous God.
The saints of old did not have the gift of righteousness that we have. Under the old covenant, the Israelites enjoyed a temporal covering through the animal sacrifices, but for us the atonement and payment for ALL our sins by Jesus is eternal.
I believe it is vital to see the difference in these covenants and know which one your under. Those under the old covenant could NOT bypass the work of getting their own spotless animal and slitting it's throat so they could be temporarily forgiven. If they did not do this, they would not have any sort of forgiveness temporary or not.