Were Miracles only for the Apostolic Age?

[Elizabeth619]

lo, oh and by the way you have just outlined what Zone would call the cessationist position: that the gifts of the apostolic age have a place to build the foundation of the church but miracles (and she includes prophets and apostles) were for the early church but now that we have the completed scriptures from Genesis to Revelations that miracles and such signs are no longer necessary. However the Holy Spirit still moves and heals but just not in that way. for that was for a purpose just as Jesus only died once on the cross for the remission of sins the foundation of the church is only laid once.

And how did Zone come in to the picture?
This is how I feel. This is what I believe. I have not told anyone there are WRONG for believing differently. PLEASE, do NOT turn this in to a childish debate. These are my views, and if anyone has issue with how I believe then leave this thread if you cannot act like an adult.I am not speaking to YOU speciafiacally Ananda, but I know how some can be.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Please. Continue to turn this in to a bashing contest about another member. Afterall, that is the Christian way.

 

[AnandaHya]

And how did Zone come in to the picture?
This is how I feel. This is what I believe. I have not told anyone there are WRONG for believing differently. PLEASE, do NOT turn this in to a childish debate. These are my views, and if anyone has issue with how I believe then leave this thread if you cannot act like an adult.I am not speaking to YOU speciafiacally Ananda, but I know how some can be.

its alright. I hope it doesn't turn childish but it has been debated in the past.

I would like to know your views and understanding on the topic matter. I've been researching it and I've been praying about it but there is a lot of different views on whether or not Apostolic Age type gifts exist now or not.

most Charismatic demoninations seem to think that the gifts continue like speaking in tongues, etc. I thought CoC was Charismatic.

So what qualifies as miracles? raising the dead, drinking poison, picking up poisonous snakes, etc?

As for the zone comment I just thought it ironic that most don't know what the term cessationist really mean or what they believe but are so quick and ready to call it doctrine of demons.

anyway I hope it doesn't become some childish mess full of meaningless name calling and false accusations.

 

[loveschild]

1. 1 Peter 4:10
   As each of you has received a gift (a particular spiritual talent, a gracious divine endowment), employ it for one another as [befits] good trustees of God's many-sided grace [faithful stewards of the extremely diverse powers and gifts granted to Christians by unmerited favor].
   1 Peter 4:9-11 (in Context) 1 Peter 4 (Whole Chapter)

 

[Elizabeth619]

its alright. I hope it doesn't turn childish but it has been debated in the past.

I would like to know your views and understanding on the topic matter. I've been researching it and I've been praying about it but there is a lot of different views on whether or not Apostolic Age type gifts exist now or not.

most Charismatic demoninations seem to think that the gifts continue like speaking in tongues, etc. I thought CoC was Charismatic.

So what qualifies as miracles? raising the dead, drinking poison, picking up poisonous snakes, etc?

As for the zone comment I just thought it ironic that most don't know what the term cessationist really mean or what they believe but are so quick and ready to call it doctrine of demons.

anyway I hope it doesn't become some childish mess full of meaningless name calling and false accusations.

Ananda, alot of people are misinformed of the Church of Christ. I even recently found out there are diffent scts of the CoC. My views are very conservative.

If some CoCs try to raise the dead, drink poison, play with snakes and so on...well...I don't plan to worship that way. I would be calling a Psych ward on the minister!

Anway, here are a few scriptures and a brief explanation of how I look at it. Again, this is my interpretation.

The apostles were able to pass on their gifts to other people.
Acts 6:5-8...5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch, 6 whom they set before the apostles; and when they had prayed, they laid hands on them.
7 Then the word of God spread, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem, and a great many of the priests were obedient to the faith.8 And Stephen, full of faith[a] and power, did great wonders and signs among the people
　
These gifts could only be passed on to others by the laying of hands of an apostle.
Acts 8:18...18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,
The purpose of these gifts was to authenticate the will of God to first century Christians before the written record(the Bible) was complete.
When the Bible was completed there was no need for spiritual gifts.
Romans 10:17... So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
　
1 Corinthians 13:8-10...8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
The ability to pass on gifts rested solely on the apostles....
Acts 8:14-18...14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money,

I have seen nowhere in the NT scriptures where people other than Jesus and the apostles were able to pass on spiritual gifts. If I am wrong then please show me where.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Also, a basic definition of a miracle to be is an act that goes against nature. A divine intervention rather.
Turning water in to wine, raising the dead, and so on.

MAny people say that the birth of a baby is a miracle. No. That happens on a daily basis. It's not a divine intervention. It can also be explained scientifically.

I do not believe that people today have these gifts. I could be wrong, but I have faith, the bible, and the power of prayer. I don't need soeone to lay hands on me to "heal" me so I can believe in God.

 

[loveschild]

Also, a basic definition of a miracle to be is an act that goes against nature. A divine intervention rather.
Turning water in to wine, raising the dead, and so on.

MAny people say that the birth of a baby is a miracle. No. That happens on a daily basis. It's not a divine intervention. It can also be explained scientifically.

I do not believe that people today have these gifts. I could be wrong, but I have faith, the bible, and the power of prayer. I don't need soeone to lay hands on me to "heal" me so I can believe in God.

Miracles of God are for believers. Unbelievers see the miracles and don't even know they happened.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Miracles of God are for believers. Unbelievers see the miracles and don't even know they happened.

Miracles are for believers only?

Weren't they performed back in the day to help prove Jesus was the Son of God and God's power?
I thought miracles being performed by Jesus and the apostles to non-believers was one reason people became believers.


So that's it? Christians can experience these things, but others cannot?

Where is the scripture to back this up?

 

[loveschild]

Miracles are for believers only?

Weren't they performed back in the day to help prove Jesus was the Son of God and God's power?
I thought miracles being performed by Jesus and the apostles to non-believers was one reason people became believers.


So that's it? Christians can experience these things, but others cannot?

Where is the scripture to back this up?

Jesus went lots of places. Where they believed he did miracles. He also went to places and no miracles were done because they did not believe in him. There are so many miracles being done every minute. The Dr says a tiny baby is going to die. The Christian says God heal the baby in Jesus name. Praise God the baby is just fine. I see these things all the time.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Jesus went lots of places. Where they believed he did miracles. He also went to places and no miracles were done because they did not believe in him. There are so many miracles being done every minute. The Dr says a tiny baby is going to die. The Christian says God heal the baby in Jesus name. Praise God the baby is just fine. I see these things all the time.

Did someone place hands on this baby and heal it?

 

[loveschild]

Did someone place hands on this baby and heal it?

Hands can be laid if you are there. But the Holy Spirit is there. It is not the person. It is the power of God through prayers and believing.

Like this lady that goes to the church I'm at now, some years ago she had cancer. The scans showed 3 spots of cancer on her lungs. We asked God to heal her in Jesus name. We laid hands on hers. That can be done bu everyone there putting their hands on her or if there are more of us and we can't all put our hands on her we put our hands on each other.

It's not about us other than we are vessels who are willing to let the power of God flow through our bodies. Where she was touched she was very hot. Our hands can get very hot. Or we can feel the power of God going out of our hands. Like Jesus felt the power coming out of him when the lady touched his robe. She went back to the Dr and her cancer was gone. Things like this happen all the time. It's the power of God.

It happens also for believers on unbelievers. Like there was this young girl 12 -13. They were JW. Her grandma was Christian. The girl had many test to show she had cancer in her breast or lungs. We asked God to heal her in Jesus name. She was healed by God.

I felt very bad about this case. The grandma came in to say the girl had no more cancer. In stead of giving glory to our God for his miracle the lady said well there saying maybe there was no cancer. It's strange I felt as if I had been stabbed in my side with a knife. The Lord was very hurt over this. We had heard over and over she had cancer. The scans said so. But when the Lord healed, a excuse was made up to steal Gods glory.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Hands can be laid if you are there. But the Holy Spirit is there. It is not the person. It is the power of God through prayers and believing.

Like this lady that goes to the church I'm at now, some years ago she had cancer. The scans showed 3 spots of cancer on her lungs. We asked God to heal her in Jesus name. We laid hands on hers. That can be done bu everyone there putting their hands on her or if there are more of us and we can't all put our hands on her we put our hands on each other.

It's not about us other than we are vessels who are willing to let the power of God flow through our bodies. Where she was touched she was very hot. Our hands can get very hot. Or we can feel the power of God going out of our hands. Like Jesus felt the power coming out of him when the lady touched his robe. She went back to the Dr and her cancer was gone. Things like this happen all the time. It's the power of God.

It happens also for believers on unbelievers. Like there was this young girl 12 -13. They were JW. Her grandma was Christian. The girl had many test to show she had cancer in her breast or lungs. We asked God to heal her in Jesus name. She was healed by God.

I felt very bad about this case. The grandma came in to say the girl had no more cancer. In stead of giving glory to our God for his miracle the lady said well there saying maybe there was no cancer. It's strange I felt as if I had been stabbed in my side with a knife. The Lord was very hurt over this. We had heard over and over she had cancer. The scans said so. But when the Lord healed, a excuse was made up to steal Gods glory.

Ok, I am NOT saying God does not heal. My mother has had cancer 3 times since 2007. We prayed ALOT. She is cancer free.

What I am saying is laying hands on a person isn't necessay. God can heal these people just the same without "touching" anyone.

Of course, to me that really isn't spiritual gifts that God gave people. That is a group of peopel gathering together and praying for God to intervene, and thank goodness he did!

At the same time there are some television evangelists that prey on people who suffer from illnesses and use God's name for their own gain.

I Am not saying they are all like that, but it just takes on to give them all a bad name....kinda like the stereotype with the Church of Christ. I am scared of snakes btw.



Also, with God anything is possible. If it is his will to heal someone then so be it and we should not question it.

I just don't think that people are blessed with gifts of healing. Like you said it is God, not the person. So in a way I kind of agre with you.

 

[Tobby17]

I hope for our sake that God still performs miracles

And Avinu, great testimony, tanx for sharing

 

[Elizabeth619]

Avinu is awesome. I disagree with 99% of everything he says, but there is just something about him I like. He is a good guy.

loveschild. I want to THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for being polite in your responses. This is a contriversial topic, but you handled it with pizazz!
I wish more people on here could handle debates like you have.

 

[loveschild]

Ok, I am NOT saying God does not heal. My mother has had cancer 3 times since 2007. We prayed ALOT. She is cancer free.

What I am saying is laying hands on a person isn't necessay. God can heal these people just the same without "touching" anyone.

Of course, to me that really isn't spiritual gifts that God gave people. That is a group of peopel gathering together and praying for God to intervene, and thank goodness he did!

At the same time there are some television evangelists that prey on people who suffer from illnesses and use God's name for their own gain.

I Am not saying they are all like that, but it just takes on to give them all a bad name....kinda like the stereotype with the Church of Christ. I am scared of snakes btw.



Also, with God anything is possible. If it is his will to heal someone then so be it and we should not question it.

I just don't think that people are blessed with gifts of healing. Like you said it is God, not the person. So in a way I kind of agre with you.

Yes God heals all the time with out laying of hands. But when they are by you, you can do it like the bible says and lay hands. Yes some are using Satan's powers to heal and get acclaim. The bible says this would happen. Well of course people are given gifts of healing from God. The word says to covet the gifts. All Christians should want to lay hands and heal in Jesus name.

Gifts are a wonderful thing from God. As long as all glory and all honor goes to God. It is not the person. It is by the faith which is a gift of God in the first place. God said lay hands of healing and to cast out devils. If all the Christians were doing as Jesus said this world would be much better. But that free will thing you know<smile>

 

[loveschild]

Avinu is awesome. I disagree with 99% of everything he says, but there is just something about him I like. He is a good guy.

loveschild. I want to THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for being polite in your responses. This is a contriversial topic, but you handled it with pizazz!
I wish more people on here could handle debates like you have.

Well gosh now I'm going to turn red....

 

[jonathanbchristian]

There is great debate on this subject. Today, there are many "healers" that claim to be able to have gifts of the Holy Spirit in this day and age.

I have always thought that miracles were performed to confirm the truth of God's word and to prove that Jesus is the son of God.

In 1 Corinithians 12-14 Paul discusses the misuse of miraculous gifts.

In Matthew 12:39 Jesus says "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign!

What are your views? Do you believe in modern day miracles and faith healers or have the ceased? Why?
Please give scripture if possible.

The Bible doesn't teach that people who have gifts or want gifts are evil. People who ask for signs are mockers like the people who mocked Jesus on the Cross. They wanted Jesus to save himself. People who mock just want a sign and not faith or belief. God still heals people and does miracles for people, but signs are not usually done for unbelievers who mock!

 

[loveschild]

The Bible doesn't teach that people who have gifts or want gifts are evil. People who ask for signs are mockers like the people who mocked Jesus on the Cross. They wanted Jesus to save himself. People who mock just want a sign and not faith or belief. God still heals people and does miracles for people, but signs are not usually done for unbelievers who mock!

Yep and when he cast out devils they were right there taunting him. When he did healings they were right there causing trouble. Sounds just like these days doesn't it.

 

[Elizabeth619]

The Bible doesn't teach that people who have gifts or want gifts are evil. People who ask for signs are mockers like the people who mocked Jesus on the Cross. They wanted Jesus to save himself. People who mock just want a sign and not faith or belief. God still heals people and does miracles for people, but signs are not usually done for unbelievers who mock!

I think my view of a miracle is different from others.


God healing a sick person is not really my definition of a miracle. Like cancer. I know God can heal them, but God also gave doctors the knowledge of medicine. The ability to help cure the sick. I do believe God is behind it all, but I sometimes find it insulting that people seem to espect miracles because they are belivers. It just doesn't work that way.

 

[loveschild]

I think my view of a miracle is different from others.


God healing a sick person is not really my definition of a miracle. Like cancer. I know God can heal them, but God also gave doctors the knowledge of medicine. The ability to help cure the sick. I do believe God is behind it all, but I sometimes find it insulting that people seem to espect miracles because they are belivers. It just doesn't work that way.

Well sure it does. First of if you had cancer you'd be wanting a miracle of Gods. Seeing someone else have it isn't the same.

mir·a·cle

&#8194; &#8194;[mir-uh-kuh

l]

Show IPA
–noun 1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.

2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of god.

1. 1 Corinthians 9:10
   Or does He speak certainly and entirely for our sakes? [Assuredly] it is written for our sakes, because the plowman ought to plow in hope, and the thresher ought to thresh in expectation of partaking of the harvest.
   1 Corinthians 9:9-11 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 9 (Whole Chapter)