What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

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May 19, 2020
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We are told to obey the Gospel as sinners .. ( lost ) once we have obeyed through faith we are saved . simple . Abraham also obeyed and through faith was saved .

How do you obey the gospel through faith?..then you are saved.....can you explain how that works?
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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That's a lie.

Is that how you can tell when someone has elected themselves? They lie?

People who worship their own will say whatever is necessary to continue in what they worship.
Who are these people that worship their own will that you keep bringing up? How do you define or identify someone who is worshiping their own will?

I know we have discussed this several times, but I still cannot see how you continue to come to this conclusion that we are worshiping our own will.

Here is the process I went through.

Convicted by the Holy Spirit.
Called and drawn by God to his Son Jesus Christ
Accepted and obeyed the call and repented.
I was then washed by the blood of the Lamb. (all sins were forgiven)
Was made alive in Christ and took up my cross and began following him.
Walking with him in the newness of life.
Studying his Word, praying and talking to him and worshiping and praising his holy name.

Does this sound like I was or am worshiping my own will to you?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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How do you obey the gospel through faith?..then you are saved.....can you explain how that works?
Do you remember the account Jesus gives as the example of the cross and what he would do for all in like manner ? John 13,14,15,16
They had to obey and look and live.
that's why Paul says
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
John 6.17 . Thats why the whole book of John is about ' believe '
 
May 19, 2020
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Do you remember the account Jesus gives as the example of the cross and what he would do for all in like manner ? John 13,14,15,16
They had to obey and look and live.
that's why Paul says
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
John 6.17 . Thats why the whole book of John is about ' believe '

You obey the Ten Commandments do you?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
That's a lie.

Is that how you can tell when someone has elected themselves? They lie?

People who worship their own will say whatever is necessary to continue in what they worship.

You prefer a dogma where some people have no access to salvation?

Tell me why is it so horrendous that a person can hear the Gospel, be persuaded of the truth and call upon the Lord and be saved, are you unwilling to share?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Reaching out because their heart is convicted of sin and of the hope of the mercy of God, it seems. Who convicts?

I'm not sure belief and regeneration are seperable in time. :unsure:
When does an egg become a chicken? o_O

I really have little time today will get back later. Not as tho I expect we'll settle a thousand years old puzzle in a few days ha - both sides have their cases, and both are made for respect of God. It's a dim glass we see through, we gotta remember, and not become bitter towards each other
The Holy Spirit reproves all men of sin ... not just a selected few ..... a special few are not elected to salvation, scripture does not teach this.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Isn't that what someone who worships their will does, though?

They give God their permission. Because the Will is God and their god can't do anything against the Will.

That's the position those who worship their will have put theirselves in. They can stammer and try to explain all they want why that isn't true. But it is.

People can worship their wills if they want that is not even the point.

The point is God's plan of salvation not John Calvin and Augustine who took his worldly philosophy to create an un-biblical theology.

You do not actually follow scripture you follow the system of these men who imposed it on scripture because ultimately they could not understand the grace of God and how God works in the world.

Yes, I noticed you still have not been able to deal with Paul's statement

Whereupon, king Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision;

Although I am sure it will get mangled to mean he was forced to be obedient.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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it is a parallel.
The least becomes the greatest, in great faith.
Not the least does great things like move mountains with just a tiny little bit of faith.
Faith the size of a mustard seed moved the mountain of my unbelief :)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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People can worship their wills if they want that is not even the point.

The point is God's plan of salvation not John Calvin and Augustine who took his worldly philosophy to create an un-biblical theology.

You do not actually follow scripture you follow the system of these men who imposed it on scripture because ultimately they could not understand the grace of God and how God works in the world.

Yes, I noticed you still have not been able to deal with Paul's statement

Whereupon, king Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision;

Although I am sure it will get mangled to mean he was forced to be obedient.
I was not aware of anyone asking me a question about Pauls statement.

I do follow scripture. I post scripture all over the place. I didn't just decide to follow some theology because I liked their portraits.

I compared what they were saying to scripture. And I found no argument against them.


I find plenty of arguments against other Calvinists who interpret things differently than I do. I especially find plenty of arguments against people who don't believe in the Sovereignty of God.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I was not aware of anyone asking me a question about Pauls statement.

I do follow scripture. I post scripture all over the place. I didn't just decide to follow some theology because I liked their portraits.

I compared what they were saying to scripture. And I found no argument against them.


I find plenty of arguments against other Calvinists who interpret things differently than I do. I especially find plenty of arguments against people who don't believe in the Sovereignty of God.
I brought forward that scripture on the Stirring the Pot since you were adamant that Paul was regenerated by force on the road to Damascus which is not in the scripture. Do you concede that he obeyed the revelation and was not forced to obey?

The sovereignty of God according to Calvinism or according to scripture? They are very different.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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a mustard seed does not have faith, it is put in the grounddead and comes to life and grows. Into an enormous tree

what you are saying here makes no sense
Not a gardener then.
Seed is not dead if it grows.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Not a gardener then.
Seed is not dead if it grows.
Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground
and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Belief throughout all of scripture precedes salvation always.
This is so elementary that it does not even need to be mentioned. I have yet to see a Calvinist honestly expound on Romans 10 and admit that it totally blows away Calvinism.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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Truly, truly, I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground
and dies, it remains only a seed; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
It dies to being a seed.
But to die to being a seed it must have life in it.

Dead seeds do not die to being seed, they stay in seed form until they rot.

They are a picture of transformation and faith to become something great in dying to what they are.
 
Jul 6, 2020
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This is so elementary that it does not even need to be mentioned. I have yet to see a Calvinist honestly expound on Romans 10 and admit that it totally blows away Calvinism.
What people see is directly related to their sin or lack thereof.
If you are all logged up in your eyes you will always get it wrong.
Eventually that sin will harden your heart.
Then you will fall away from Christ in that hardness.

Then you will cling to or try to make doctrines that allow you to be righteous without actually having to be righteous and to be saved and secure without living saved and secure. They lose the fear of God before there eyes. that was the beginning of understanding.

If you think you know, you have yet to know as you should.
Because knowing as you should is Christ in you. You in Christ perusing the fullness of His stature with a faith that works, not a faith that is dead.
Not faith in a pair of rose colored glasses God wears, His Grace for your continual transformation and salvation until nothing is left, until you are dead to the seed you once where and alive to God with Christ Jesus fully formed in you.

But so few believe the word of God in practice (AKA Faith that works).