What are the Consequences of Falling from Grace?

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KennethC

Guest
Acts 1:17

For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.


Judas was numbered as an Apostle of Christ, and took part in the ministry. He turned aside from the Truth and fell back to perdition as the scriptures clearly say by betraying Jesus. Other such examples are given from Paul and Jude when speaking on salvation, giving OT examples of those who returned back to sinful lifestyles and were destroyed !!!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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and if this verse is talking about a believer...( which I don't believe it is ) does not say that they will lose their salvation...

The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.

Here is an excellent look at 2 Peter 2:20 by mailmandan

2 Peter 2:20 - Those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature, and they have new and different appetites and desires. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

*Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature," having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption (Strongs #5356) (to shrivel or wither, spoil , ruin , deprave, corrupt , defile, to destroy by means of corrupting, to spoil as does milk). Corruption - describes decomposition or rotting of an organism and the accompanying stench. The utter depravity of the fallen flesh and the resultant moral decomposition of the world opposed to God is driven by it sinful lusts or evil desires. Internal corruption.

Pollutions/Defilements (Strongs #3393) ("pollutions", "filthy things", "contaminations", "world's filth") describes the state of being tainted or stained by evil and refers to impurity, impure, tainted, defilement, foulness or pollution. Pollutions/Defilement refers to what is on the outside (2 Peter 2:20). But genuine believers have escaped the "corruption that is in the world through lust" (2 Peter 1:4).

*Corruption is deeper than pollutions/defilements on the outside: it is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment



2 Peter 2:20-22 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

if we die in a backslide condition we will go to hell for eternity.

honesty, i hope you guys are right on this, i really do.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
I'm not here to draw lines and start saying "your saved" and "your lost"....not my job

but when we as Christians willfully sin and turn our back on God and continue to reject the conviction of the Holy Ghost we can harden our hearts and stiffen our necks and be "cut off"......i'm certainly not God, his mercy is beyond my comprehension
Proverbs 29:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
That's three strikes in one statement, you're out. There is so much you still need to learn, and I pray that one day you will look back and marvel that you once believed such nonsense.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Acts 1:17

For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.


Judas was numbered as an Apostle of Christ, and took part in the ministry. He turned aside from the Truth and fell back to perdition as the scriptures clearly say by betraying Jesus. Other such examples are given from Paul and Jude when speaking on salvation, giving OT examples of those who returned back to sinful lifestyles and were destroyed !!!
John 6: [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

Why do people refuse to listen to what Jesus said, From the begining, He knew Judas woudl betray him because he did ot believe.

being numbered with them does not mean he was ever saved. He was numbered among the 12. But Jesus had many disciples who walked with him, whether they were part of the 12 or not. Yet again, In John 6. Jesus said many of them never believed (in who he really was)


Oh thats right, I just wasted my time, Ken has me on ignore.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm not here to draw lines and start saying "your saved" and "your lost"....not my job

but when we as Christians willfully sin and turn our back on God and continue to reject the conviction of the Holy Ghost we can harden our hearts and stiffen our necks and be "cut off"......i'm certainly not God, his mercy is beyond my comprehension
Proverbs 29:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.
so there can never be hope for anyone, for we will never know if we are good enough.

And you preach a gospel (good news) Where is the good news?


How can I have hope in eternal life. if I can never know if I met that guideline and did not fall away?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That's three strikes in one statement, you're out. There is so much you still need to learn, and I pray that one day you will look back and marvel that you once believed such nonsense.
I am so glad I came out of it, Although I still struggle with it some. Satan uses it against me, and it is not easy to resist.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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You are not wasting your time when you post about the finished work of Christ for us. The post usually is not for the ones opposing the work of Christ....it's for the ones who are willing to learn about the Lord and His grace. These are the ones you are posting to..keep it up!

John 6: [SUP]64 [/SUP]But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him

Why do people refuse to listen to what Jesus said, From the begining, He knew Judas woudl betray him because he did ot believe.

being numbered with them does not mean he was ever saved. He was numbered among the 12. But Jesus had many disciples who walked with him, whether they were part of the 12 or not. Yet again, In John 6. Jesus said many of them never believed (in who he really was)


Oh thats right, I just wasted my time, Ken has me on ignore.
 
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FreeNChrist

Guest
I am so glad I came out of it, Although I still struggle with it some. Satan uses it against me, and it is not easy to resist.
I know. And now God uses your experience to help others going through the same thing. I love that.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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satan is called the "accuser".....he loves to 'accuse" you of everything......it's funny how Christians will call God the "accuser" .....religious traditions are so stupid!

I am so glad I came out of it, Although I still struggle with it some. Satan uses it against me, and it is not easy to resist.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
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I've already addressed all these. I don't think you reading my posts with an open mind, I think your to busy reloading to even consider what i'm saying;)

as far as "eternal life" lets let the scripture define eternal life for us:

John 17:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (that my friends is a biblical definition of eternal life, not my thoughts or opinions)

now please contrast john 17:3 with 1john 2:4
1 John 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

needs no explanation really.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
satan is called the "accuser".....he loves to 'accuse" you of everything......it's funny how Christians will call God the "accuser" .....religious traditions are so stupid!
Oh I know it. Thats why I have to constantly go through ephesians and collossians (the "in Christ" books) to remind myself where I stand in christ, otherwise, satan gets in there, and all hell breaks lose and I lose my ability to be a light to the world.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I've already addressed all these. I don't think you reading my posts with an open mind, I think your to busy reloading to even consider what i'm saying;)

as far as "eternal life" lets let the scripture define eternal life for us:

John 17:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (that my friends is a biblical definition of eternal life, not my thoughts or opinions)

now please contrast john 17:3 with 1john 2:4
1 John 2:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

needs no explanation really.

Your right no need

Those who are saved and HAVE eternal life will do Gods commands.


Those who do not know him, are impostors. and even if they act all righteous. are not saved at all..

1 John 3:[SUP]4 [/SUP]Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. [SUP]6[/SUP]Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. [SUP]8 [/SUP]He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.


funny how the verry passages you posted contradict your own message.
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
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I didn't say that "i thought Judas was saved" I've showed time and again in these posts that Jesus said it, not me!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Jesus commanded " Go and preach the gospel..first in Jerusalem, Samaria, etc. "

Have you started to preach the gospel first in Jersualem... have you done that?..What..you didn't?..Don't you know that those who do not obey His commandments do not have eternal life...

I suppose one really needs to find out what "commandments" He was referring to...

1 John 3:23-24 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Amen!..we should be "living " in those books....so many want to "live" from the OT and the Old Covenant.

We need to keep our minds on things above....where we are seated with Christ..Col 3:14

Oh I know it. Thats why I have to constantly go through ephesians and collossians (the "in Christ" books) to remind myself where I stand in christ, otherwise, satan gets in there, and all hell breaks lose and I lose my ability to be a light to the world.
 
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KennethC

Guest
The usage of "NEVER BELIEVED" are not in John 6...........

Please lets stop playing games with God's word and adding things that are not said there, as John 6:66 says they "went back" and "walked with Him no more."

It does not say they never believed to begin with !!!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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John 6:36 (NASB)
[SUP]36 [/SUP] "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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John 6:64 (NASB)
[SUP]64 [/SUP] "But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
 
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KennethC

Guest
satan is called the "accuser".....he loves to 'accuse" you of everything......it's funny how Christians will call God the "accuser" .....religious traditions are so stupid!
Satan is called the accuser.................

Nobody is calling God the accuser, as rebuking and reproving is not accusing...........

Accusing is when you bear false witness on another, or state something on another they never said.

God rebukes and reproves those who are His, as the chastening of the Lord done through the Holy Spirit will be felt when we sin. And His rebuking and reproving is "ALWAYS" for correction and restoration !!!

If there is no correction or restoration in the chastening (rebuking/reproving) of the Lord then it is not the Truth being given.

Which is what the whole false teaching of having one put to death when in unrepented sin to save their soul does, there is no correction or restoration in that teaching thus making it false !!!
 

Goodnewsman

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2016
710
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did you even read what you posted before you hit enter?
1 John 3:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

notice the word keepeth....then notice the 3 letters on the end "eth" that make it present tense!