What did the Jew receive first?
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Look at the distortion.
It would be good for everyone Elin disagrees with to just ignore her. She causes division and the Bible tells us to avoid those people. Romans 16:17
It would be good for everyone Elin disagrees with to just ignore her. She causes division and the Bible tells us to avoid those people. Romans 16:17
C
One sees distinction the other sees the relationship.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to allwho did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
The Word was God - God spoke through Moses. To deny Moses is to deny the Word of God. To deny the Word of God is to deny God.
In Him was life - to choose life is to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, decrees and laws cf Deuteronomy 30.
That life is light to all mankind - the Psalmist said: "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path."
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world - The Word of God is the true light is the Christ.
To all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - To receive the Word of God and to believe God is salvation give us the right to become children of God.
The Word of God became flesh - The Christ is the Word of God.
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given (or grace for grace in KJV) - what is grace already given? The law given through Moses for John 1:17 says:
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The OT saints and John saw the grace of God in the law given through Moses.
Today's many only see the distinction between grace and the law.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.There was a man sent from God whose name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to allwho did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
The Word was God - God spoke through Moses. To deny Moses is to deny the Word of God. To deny the Word of God is to deny God.
In Him was life - to choose life is to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commands, decrees and laws cf Deuteronomy 30.
That life is light to all mankind - the Psalmist said: "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path."
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world - The Word of God is the true light is the Christ.
To all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God - To receive the Word of God and to believe God is salvation give us the right to become children of God.
The Word of God became flesh - The Christ is the Word of God.
Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given (or grace for grace in KJV) - what is grace already given? The law given through Moses for John 1:17 says:
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
The OT saints and John saw the grace of God in the law given through Moses.
Today's many only see the distinction between grace and the law.
It is such a blessing you have Christ, but as Christ told you, you have Moses, too. The light that shown from Moses face was the reflection of the light of God, the veil was because God's light overwhelmed the people. Moses was able to face the glory of the Lord without the veil because Moses was humble before the Lord. Moses took the veil off when he was listening to the Lord. As Christ spoke of "listening to Moses" you can listen to Moses, too, as Moses listened to the Lord.
“And it came to pass when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. And Moses called unto them, and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. And afterward all the children of Israel came near: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai. And till Moses had done speaking with them,
he put a veil on his face. But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with Him,
he took the veil off, until he came out. And he came out, and spoke unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with Him.” Exodus 34:29-36.
“And it came to pass when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses knew not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with Him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him. And Moses called unto them, and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. And afterward all the children of Israel came near: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai. And till Moses had done speaking with them,
he put a veil on his face. But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with Him,
he took the veil off, until he came out. And he came out, and spoke unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone: and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with Him.” Exodus 34:29-36.
C
Not that I believe G3466 means exclusively "initiation into religious rites" as some made the OP sounded like but from that interpretation I see two things - physical circumcision and various animal offerings - which were long ago spoken by the Word of God that they were not what He's after from man.
Physical circumcision - He prophesied through Moses that the Israelites, even though physically circumcised, would go through disobedience, punishment and come to repentance and He promised that He would circumcise their hearts and their descendants so that they may love Him with all their heart and with all their soul, and live cf Deuteronomy 29 & 30. This comes to realization in the new covenant.
Animal offerings - To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams cf 1 Samuel 15:22 and of course a ton more scripture spoke of that. This comes to realization in the new covenant through the body offering of Christ through obedience.
I believe these two are the things the Jews received first which are mysteries to both the Jews and the gentiles until the Son of God came in the flesh to reveal and written by Paul - and the reason why there were constant debates on such at that point in time.
Physical circumcision - He prophesied through Moses that the Israelites, even though physically circumcised, would go through disobedience, punishment and come to repentance and He promised that He would circumcise their hearts and their descendants so that they may love Him with all their heart and with all their soul, and live cf Deuteronomy 29 & 30. This comes to realization in the new covenant.
Animal offerings - To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams cf 1 Samuel 15:22 and of course a ton more scripture spoke of that. This comes to realization in the new covenant through the body offering of Christ through obedience.
I believe these two are the things the Jews received first which are mysteries to both the Jews and the gentiles until the Son of God came in the flesh to reveal and written by Paul - and the reason why there were constant debates on such at that point in time.
It sure does.
Nope. I don't present anything on here that I am not 100% sure of so I don't avoid those who simply disagree with me, but I do avoid having a battle of wits with those who have no ammunition just for the sake of arguing or being able to consider myself "the winner." (That obviously does not include you, as I am fully aware that you are not unlearned, according to your own desire.)
Nope. I don't present anything on here that I am not 100% sure of so I don't avoid those who simply disagree with me, but I do avoid having a battle of wits with those who have no ammunition just for the sake of arguing or being able to consider myself "the winner." (That obviously does not include you, as I am fully aware that you are not unlearned, according to your own desire.)
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Not quite. . .nice try at deceptively slipping the law into grace.
You've been flim-flammed.
"Out of his fullness (Jesus Christ, vv. 14-15) we have all received grace on top of grace,"
It is of Christ's fullness that we have all received grace, and that's not "through the law of Moses."
And that's a distinction between, and not an identity of, the law of Moses and the grace of Jesus Christ.
That's one of your many deceptions you would have us believe the text states.
You've been flim-flammed.
"Out of his fullness (Jesus Christ, vv. 14-15) we have all received grace on top of grace,"
It is of Christ's fullness that we have all received grace, and that's not "through the law of Moses."
And that's a distinction between, and not an identity of, the law of Moses and the grace of Jesus Christ.
That's one of your many deceptions you would have us believe the text states.
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Speaking of scripture is not being deceptive.
Law is given for a purpose it is Law. Grace is given for a purpose, it is grace. No slipping around.
It is not nice to film-flam.
Yes, isn't it wonderful beyond words that we are given grace!! Thanks.
Speaking of scripture is not speaking of deception. No one can make others believe, if someone believes what isn't truth it is what they do, not what others make them do.
The law of Moses is given to us, even Christ repeated it. It cannot be identified as grace, it is law---or by a better word, it is guidance.
Grace is grace and it comes through the forgiveness that the blood of Christ has always symbolized. The definition of law is not grace, it is a separate word.
Law is given for a purpose it is Law. Grace is given for a purpose, it is grace. No slipping around.
It is not nice to film-flam.
Yes, isn't it wonderful beyond words that we are given grace!! Thanks.
Speaking of scripture is not speaking of deception. No one can make others believe, if someone believes what isn't truth it is what they do, not what others make them do.
The law of Moses is given to us, even Christ repeated it. It cannot be identified as grace, it is law---or by a better word, it is guidance.
Grace is grace and it comes through the forgiveness that the blood of Christ has always symbolized. The definition of law is not grace, it is a separate word.
I know why Moses put the veil upon his face . . . . because of the refection of the glory of God.
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. . . . For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 2 Cor. 3:7-9, 11
It is truly wonderful, isn't it? What had been was glorious, and now we have what is even more glorious. Even the rituals telling of the spirit was done away with, the spirit is brought forward. Now we are told of God by the Holy Spirit though Christ. Even those who lived in the time before Christ were freed from their sleep in Christ to live with Him, now. We are truly blessed.
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If you are going to debate or discuss quit speaking untruths about those who don't agree with your position. It is best just to state your position than to paint a false witness of another's position to make it appear how ridiculous theirs is and how true yours is. You do this over and over and over with the other person that is appearing to be deliberate dishonesty.
I don't think that scripture was given to be deceptive at all, just can't believe our loving Father would give us a book and say it was to deceive. Christ told of the law of Moses, but never to say it was to deceive. It is almost impossible to wrap my mind around saying that the 613 Commandments were given by a God who had no love, and they were given only by a horrid God who never loved what He created. You say it is the same as satan did with Jesus, but I don't think satan wrote any of scripture.
Twisting what others say again. Anyhow...
Matthew 4:1, 6 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
That is an example of satan using Scripture deceptively.
Matthew 4:1, 6 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
That is an example of satan using Scripture deceptively.
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