What did the Jew receive first?

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Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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#21
Evidently you have a problem with the Strong's concordance.
No, the problem is the wrong definition you chose from Strong's Concordance, which gives both
the pagan meaning and the NT meaning, as shown here by Mem.

Nice try at trying to sneak in the pagan meaning of the word.
 
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Mar 4, 2013
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#22
No, the problem is the wrong definition you chose from Strong's Concordance, which gives both
the pagan meaning and the NT meaning.
There is only one Strong's number for mystery/mysteries in the New Testament. It is 3466. What are you reading? Tell us all where you are getting your information from, giving you the right of having the gall to insinuate that the description of this word in scripture is pagan.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#23
From the beginning, Christianity has not changed. We are still Torah based, we have a temple and the high priest. Christ said that in three days, if the temple was destroyed He would build it up again. We are told that Jesus is our high priest. Christ still lives and we still take our sins to Him to be cleansed just as sins were taken to the arc in the temple where the Lord resided to by cleansed by blood.

Paul carefully explained to Jews and gentiles alike how everything was the same, and how the difference was we were to use Christ and the Holy Spirit instead of the blood of animals to represent Christ and the temple of bricks and stone.

Everything was to come from the heart, now, reliance on the physical to represent the heart not being necessary any longer as the Holy Spirit took its place, but the spiritual remained the same. The division between Jew and gentile was over.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#24
From the Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament...

μυστηριον, ου, το. mystery, secret; (1) as a religious technical term in the cults of the Greco- Roman world, a religious secret confided only to the initiated, secret rite, not used in the NT; (2) in the NT; (a) as what can be known only through revelation mediated from God what was not known before (MT 13. 11); (b) as a supreme redemptive revelation of God through the gospel of Christ mystery (RO 16. 25; EP 3. 9); (c) as the hidden meaning of a symbol with metaphorical significance mystery (EP 5. 32 (ANLEX)
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#25
From the beginning, Christianity has not changed. We are still Torah based,
No, the NT contrasts the law and grace, it does not identify the law with grace.

"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

All attempts to do so are unBiblical.

 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
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#26
There is only one Strong's number for mystery/mysteries in the New Testament. It is 3466.
What are you reading?
There's more to life than Strong's Concordance.

Ask Mem what she is reading here.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#27
From the Analytical Lexicon of the Greek New Testament...

μυστηριον, ου, το. mystery, secret; (1) as a religious technical term in the cults of the Greco- Roman world, a religious secret confided only to the initiated, secret rite, not used in the NT; (2) in the NT; (a) as what can be known only through revelation mediated from God what was not known before (MT 13. 11); (b) as a supreme redemptive revelation of God through the gospel of Christ mystery (RO 16. 25; EP 3. 9); (c) as the hidden meaning of a symbol with metaphorical significance mystery (EP 5. 32 (ANLEX)
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Ephesians 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Ephesians 3:3-6 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Ephesians 3:9-10 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Colossians 1:26-27 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

All sound like definition #2 to me.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#28
No, the NT contrasts the law and grace, it does not identify the law with grace.

"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

All attempts to do so are unBiblical.

Elin, we know that you do most any thing you can to discount scripture, and this contrasts vs identify nonsense is just one of your ways. Scripture tells us of the guidance of the Lord for us. Scripture tells us of grace. Neither is unbiblical.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#29
From the beginning, Christianity has not changed. We are still Torah based, we have a temple and the high priest. Christ said that in three days, if the temple was destroyed He would build it up again. We are told that Jesus is our high priest. Christ still lives and we still take our sins to Him to be cleansed just as sins were taken to the arc in the temple where the Lord resided to by cleansed by blood.

Paul carefully explained to Jews and gentiles alike how everything was the same, and how the difference was we were to use Christ and the Holy Spirit instead of the blood of animals to represent Christ and the temple of bricks and stone.

Everything was to come from the heart, now, reliance on the physical to represent the heart not being necessary any longer as the Holy Spirit took its place, but the spiritual remained the same. The division between Jew and gentile was over.
Elin, we know that you do most any thing you can to discount scripture, and this contrasts vs identify nonsense is just one of your ways. Scripture tells us of the guidance of the Lord for us. Scripture tells us of grace. Neither is unbiblical.
RedTent,
You'd be more convincing if you would give Scriptural support for your positions, here and elsewhere.
At least that way we'd have something substantive to discuss.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#30
Wrong definition for Biblical meaning of "mystery" in the NT.

A mystery is something that had not been revealed before, not something that was incomprehensible,
or even worse, an initiation into a religious rite.


No, Paul is referring to believing Gentiles in the NT receiving divine truths never before revealed.


Your question is irrelevant.

Mystery in the NT does not mean religious rites.

Paul is not speaking of religious rites, but of divine truths never before revealed.

Your misunderstanding of the meaning of "mystery" in the NT, which is the basis
of your whole point, means that anything you say based on it is in error, as is your post here.
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#31
Elin, we know that you do most any thing you can to discount scripture, and this contrasts vs identify nonsense is just one of your ways. Scripture tells us of the guidance of the Lord for us. Scripture tells us of grace. Neither is unbiblical.
As my signature says

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them." Romans 16:17
 
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
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#32
What did the Jews receive first?

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put if from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The "musterion" could NOT have been revealed to the Jews first because "it was kept secret since the world began". It was only revealed to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ. [Gal. 1:12] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. [Eph. 3:6] Paul was ordained or picked by Jesus to be the one to manifest [bring to light] the mystery - Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles which is Christ in you the hope of glory!
[Col 1:26,27]

Nope, not religious rituals for they were surely not hid - they were evident and practiced everywhere and still today!
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#33
RedTent,
You'd be more convincing if you would give Scriptural support for your positions, here and elsewhere.
At least that way we'd have something substantive to discuss.
I'll give you some scripture
Then they suborned men, which said , We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said , This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say , that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. Acts 6:11-15

So after Paul is arrested this is what he said to the accusers. "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

I don't see a difference between then and now in the religious sect. Let's get back to the basic question before this thread is totally derailed by arguments. What did the Jews receive first?
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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#34
RedTent,
You'd be more convincing if you would give Scriptural support for your positions, here and elsewhere.
At least that way we'd have something substantive to discuss.
It would be pretty difficult to give you all of scripture in a post. First every passage explaining the temple and high priest our existing one makes complete, then telling of Christ and what Christ did. Then all of Paul explaining to the Jews and gentiles how to use Christ, now, for what was used before like the Levi High Priest. This is a discussion of scripture for people who own bibles and even ways to search bibles, not for a place to put the physical bible for people to read, they all own one.

You said that you were not going to read any of my posts any more nor respond to them, what happened? You will find a way to oppose anything I report of scripture, everyone knows that. And I truly believe that your idea of not believing much of scripture is in error, I have said that. Let's let it go at that.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#35
What did the Jews receive first?

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put if from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

The "musterion" could NOT have been revealed to the Jews first because "it was kept secret since the world began". It was only revealed to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ. [Gal. 1:12] That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel. [Eph. 3:6] Paul was ordained or picked by Jesus to be the one to manifest [bring to light] the mystery - Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles which is Christ in you the hope of glory!
[Col 1:26,27]

Nope, not religious rituals for they were surely not hid - they were evident and practiced everywhere and still today!
Was not the mystery revealed to Paul that the Gentiles would receive the same as the Jews had received first? Remember "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." The Jews received something first before the gentiles got it. What was it?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#36
Elin said:
No, the NT contrasts the law and grace, it does not identify the law with grace.

"For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." (Jn 1:17)

All attempts to identify grace with the law are unBiblical
.
Elin, we know that you do most any thing you can to discount scripture, and
this contrasts vs identify nonsense is just one of your ways.
Jn 1:17 speaks for itself.

Scripture tells us of the guidance of the Lord for us. Scripture tells us of grace.
Neither is unbiblical.
Straw man. . .
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#37
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24
Agreed. . . .
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#38
As my signature says

"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned ; and avoid them." Romans 16:17
Agreed. . . .
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#39
Let's get back to the basic question before this thread is totally derailed by arguments.
What did the Jews receive first?
Are you talking about the religious rites of mysteries?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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#40
Originally Posted by just-me

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

You contradict yourself. If you agree with it why are you continuously doing it?