What did the Jew receive first?

[Elin]

Was not the mystery revealed to Paul that the Gentiles would receive the same as the Jews had received first? Remember "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile."
The Jews received something first before the gentiles got it.
What was it?

Are you talking about the religious rites of mysteries?

 

[Elin]

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Matthew 24:24

You contradict yourself. If you agree with it why are you continuously doing it?

For the same reason you are.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

Was not the mystery revealed to Paul that the Gentiles would receive the same as the Jews had received first? Remember "to the Jew first and also to the Gentile." The Jews received something first before the gentiles got it. What was it?

Romans 2:1 - Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest . . . now this is said after we are told about the reprobate in chapter 1 . . .
But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things - commit what things? again Chapter 1 . . .
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? . . . still referring to Chapter 1
Or despises thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? . . . Now - God's forbearance and longsuffering and goodness should lead "O, man" to repentance - lead one to want to change
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life [those who are lead to repentance]. . . . But unto them that are contentious, ad do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [those who remain unrepentant] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile [those who have repented]

This context does not say what you are trying to make it say - this context is speaking of judgment - God's judgment - NOT THE MYSTERY . . .

 

[just-me]

Are you talking about the religious rites of mysteries?

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

 

[just-me]

Romans 2:1 - Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest . . . now this is said after we are told about the reprobate in chapter 1 . . .
But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things - commit what things? again Chapter 1 . . .
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? . . . still referring to Chapter 1
Or despises thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? . . . Now - God's forbearance and longsuffering and goodness should lead "O, man" to repentance - lead one to want to change
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life [those who are lead to repentance]. . . . But unto them that are contentious, ad do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; [those who remain unrepentant] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile [those who have repented]

This context does not say what you are trying to make it say - this context is speaking of judgment - God's judgment - NOT THE MYSTERY . . .

What do you see in my posts that I'm trying to say anything contradictory to the truth. This is for discussion and edification, not for assumptions that evolve into argument. Take note of who says things to cause division.

What did the Jew receive before the Gentile received the same thing as they had received? That is a very simple question. It is worth discussion.

 

[Elin]

The Jews received something first before the gentiles got it.
What was it?

Are you talking about the religious rites of mysteries?

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

Then your talking about a pagan practice, and the answer is "NOTHNG."

 

[Elin]

What did the Jew receive before the Gentile received the same thing as they had received? That is a very simple question.
It is worth discussion.

Only if you use the Biblical meaning of the words used.

 

[crossnote]

It would be pretty difficult to give you all of scripture in a post. First every passage explaining the temple and high priest our existing one makes complete, then telling of Christ and what Christ did. Then all of Paul explaining to the Jews and gentiles how to use Christ, now, for what was used before like the Levi High Priest. This is a discussion of scripture for people who own bibles and even ways to search bibles, not for a place to put the physical bible for people to read, they all own one.

You said that you were not going to read any of my posts any more nor respond to them, what happened? You will find a way to oppose anything I report of scripture, everyone knows that. And I truly believe that your idea of not believing much of scripture is in error, I have said that. Let's let it go at that.

I never said I wouldn't read your posts...only not respond, you agreed the same. But I noticed you would constantly make indirect side digs on what I wrote so I figured to just respond directly to your stealth ways.
Anyways seeing it is too difficult for you to back up your outlandish assertions with Scripture, I'll just continue to count them as just that...outlandish.

 

[crossnote]

I'll give you some scripture
Then they suborned men, which said , We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God. And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council, And set up false witnesses, which said , This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law: For we have heard him say , that this Jesus of Nazareth shall destroy this place, and shall change the customs which Moses delivered us. And all that sat in the council, looking stedfastly on him, saw his face as it had been the face of an angel. Acts 6:11-15

So after Paul is arrested this is what he said to the accusers. "But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:" Acts 24:14

I don't see a difference between then and now in the religious sect. Let's get back to the basic question before this thread is totally derailed by arguments. What did the Jews receive first?

The Jews first received the promises given to Abraham...next.

 

[peacefulbeliever]

What do you see in my posts that I'm trying to say anything contradictory to the truth. This is for discussion and edification, not for assumptions that evolve into argument. Take note of who says things to cause division.

Ephesians 3:1-6
1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby , when ye read , ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Dispensation=3622. oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

Revelation=602. apokalupsis ap-ok-al'-oop-sis from 601; disclosure:--appearing, coming, lighten, manifestation, be revealed, revelation.

Mystery=3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

Paul is saying that He knows that the Gentiles are included into religious rites. Are those rites the same as what the Jew's received previously, or are they different? If so, are the Gentiles grafted into the same promise that God gave to Israel?

I do not see where Ephesians 3:1-6 is saying what you are saying it is . . . Why did you pick that specific definition? I would say by looking at other verses speaking of Gentiles becoming fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel being the musterion "which was kept secret since the world began" [Rom 16:25] and being received by Paul through "revelation of Jesus Christ" [Gal. 1:12] which is the musterion "which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" [Col. 1:26,27] which is what makes the Gentles fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ. . . . Full circle! - which does not add up to "initiation into religious rites" but adds up to being a secret - a hidden thing - "hid in God" [Eph. 3:9, 1 Cor. 2:7]

What did the Jew receive before the Gentile received the same thing as they had received? That is a very simple question. It is worth discussion.

I see that people are discussing - the difference of opinion here is the definition you chose for musterion.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [Gentile]

Romans 2:9,10 Which I have already posted concerning judgment

Now here are four scriptures which address what you are asking - Which do you want to discuss?

 

[LRG]

The Jews received salvation first before the Gentiles.

 

[RedTent]

I never said I wouldn't read your posts...only not respond, you agreed the same. But I noticed you would constantly make indirect side digs on what I wrote so I figured to just respond directly to your stealth ways.
Anyways seeing it is too difficult for you to back up your outlandish assertions with Scripture, I'll just continue to count them as just that...outlandish.

And with the erroneous way you filter all scripture through your personal decisions about it, I find most of what you say a distortion of scripture. I wish the Lord could help us, for this is not a good situation. It seems to me that scripture is correct, but it takes an acceptance of all scripture and I don't see you doing that. I cannot accept your decisions about what not to accept of scripture and you cannot accept my inclusion of all scripture as truth. I do not see a solution of this as possible.

 

[Elin]

I do not see where Ephesians 3:1-6 is saying what you are saying it is . . . Why did you pick that specific definition? I would say by looking at other verses speaking of Gentiles becoming fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel being the musterion "which was kept secret since the world began" [Rom 16:25] and being received by Paul through "revelation of Jesus Christ" [Gal. 1:12] which is the musterion "which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" [Col. 1:26,27] which is what makes the Gentles fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ. . . .
Full circle! - which does not add up to "initiation into religious rites" but adds up to being a secret - a hidden thing - "hid in God" [Eph. 3:9, 1 Cor. 2:7]

I see that people are discussing - the difference of opinion here is the definition you chose for musterion.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [Gentile]

Romans 2:9,10 Which I have already posted concerning judgment

Now here are four scriptures which address what you are asking - Which do you want to discuss?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to peacefulbeliever again.

 

[crossnote]

And with the erroneous way you filter all scripture through your personal decisions about it, I find most of what you say a distortion of scripture. I wish the Lord could help us, for this is not a good situation. It seems to me that scripture is correct, but it takes an acceptance of all scripture and I don't see you doing that. I cannot accept your decisions about what not to accept of scripture and you cannot accept my inclusion of all scripture as truth. I do not see a solution of this as possible.

I guess you didn't hear me the first time...
"Anyways, seeing it is too difficult for you to back up your outlandish assertions with Scripture, I'll just continue to count them as just that...outlandish.''

 

[just-me]

I do not see where Ephesians 3:1-6 is saying what you are saying it is . . . Why did you pick that specific definition?I see that people are discussing - the difference of opinion here is the definition you chose for musterion.
[/COLOR]

I didn't choose that definition. It is out of the Strong's concordance.

Again here is what it says.
3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

 

[Elin]

I didn't choose that definition. It is out of the Strong's concordance.

And it's not the only definition.

Mem chose the Biblical one.

Check it out here.

 

[just-me]

I do not see where Ephesians 3:1-6 is saying what you are saying it is . . . Why did you pick that specific definition? I would say by looking at other verses speaking of Gentiles becoming fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel being the musterion "which was kept secret since the world began" [Rom 16:25] and being received by Paul through "revelation of Jesus Christ" [Gal. 1:12] which is the musterion "which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" [Col. 1:26,27] which is what makes the Gentles fellowheirs and of the same body and partakers of his promise in Christ. . . . Full circle! - which does not add up to "initiation into religious rites" but adds up to being a secret - a hidden thing - "hid in God" [Eph. 3:9, 1 Cor. 2:7]

I see that people are discussing - the difference of opinion here is the definition you chose for musterion.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing you put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [Gentile]

Romans 2:9,10 Which I have already posted concerning judgment

Now here are four scriptures which address what you are asking - Which do you want to discuss?

I asked the question first. What did the Jews receive before the Gentiles? Answer that first and then we can continue without argument. There's all kinds of other things being added to confuse the simplicity of a descent discussion.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 1 Corinthians 14:33

Acts 13:46 answers the question. Now define the word of God they received first.

 

[RedTent]

I guess you didn't hear me the first time...
"Anyways, seeing it is too difficult for you to back up your outlandish assertions with Scripture, I'll just continue to count them as just that...outlandish.''

I think that is fair. I will report what scripture says and you report how that is outlandish. Truce?

 

[just-me]

And it's not the only definition.

Mem chose the Biblical one.

Check it out here.

The content of the divine mystery is painted in broad strokes in the Old Testament, takes on greater detail in the Gospels, and receives its finishing touches in Paul's letters. In Daniel, where the term first appears (raz in Aramaic, always translated with mysterion [musthvrion] in the LXX),

Original Word: μυστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: mustérion
Phonetic Spelling: (moos-tay'-ree-on)
Short Definition: anything hidden, a mystery
Definition: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation.

3466 mystḗrion (the root of the English term, "mystery") – mystery. In the Bible, a "mystery" (3466 /mystḗrion) is not something unknowable. Rather, it is what can only be known through revelation, i.e. because God reveals it.

3466. musterion moos-tay'-ree-on from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites):--mystery.

 

[prodigal]

galations 3

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to the seeds, as speaking of many: but, And to thy seed, as of one, [SUP][ab][/SUP]which is [SUP][ac][/SUP]Christ.
[SUP]17 [/SUP][SUP][ad][/SUP]And this I say, that the covenant that was confirmed afore of God [SUP][ae][/SUP]in respect of Christ, the [SUP][af][/SUP]Law which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[SUP]18 [/SUP][SUP][ag][/SUP]For if the [SUP][ah][/SUP]inheritance be of the Law, it is no more by the promise, but God gave it freely unto Abraham by promise.


[SUP]26 [/SUP][SUP][av][/SUP]For ye are all the sons of God by faith, in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]27 [/SUP][SUP][aw][/SUP]For all ye that are [SUP][ax][/SUP]baptized into Christ, have [SUP][ay][/SUP]put on Christ.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Grecian: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female: for ye are all [SUP][az][/SUP]one in Christ Jesus.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs by promise.