What do you believe 'hell' actually is?

[Laodicea]

and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.--Revelation 20:10

Jonah 2:1-6
(1) Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
(2) And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
(3) For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
(4) Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
(5) The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
(6) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah was only in the belly for 3 days but verse 6 says that it was forever

Jude 1:7
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

It says in this verse that Sodom and Gommorrha suffering the vengeance eternal fire but they are not burning now. The punishment is eternal but not the punishing.

 

[Livn4Him]

I know exactly what hell is: One place I will NOT be!

 

[Broern]

Hell is a real place. It is a place of punishment (not for torture). It was not prepared by God for man. The Bible says HELL was prepared for Satan and the angels who disobeyed God. Hell was not created for man. But if man chooses to disobey God, he will therefore go to hell as consequence of disobedience.

The Bible also says it is the will of God that all man be saved. But man have "will" and therefore can "will" to go to heaven or to hell.

Christians are not thinking about hell. Christian mind is directed towards heaven. Christians are working hard in teaching the good news to as many people they can reach. Christians are preparing to meet the Lord Jesus Christ in heaven.

 

[Fidelis]

I know exactly what hell is: One place I will NOT be!

And you are glad about that, knowing that 5,500,000,000 other people will burn in hell? That doesn't really go along with "love your neighbor as yourself".

 

[pickles]

Consequences for actions sounds great, we could work justice out of that. Eternal torture for not believing, however, is the furthest thing from justice. Consequences should be fair, anyone who thinks that being in excruciating pain FOREVER is a fair punishment for what I've done in my 19 years of life, what anyone did in their ?? years of life, or even what Hitler did in his 56 years of life... Let's just say that we have a MASSIVE disagreement as to the difference between disgusting cruelty and just consequences for actions.

You've told me that I don't deserve his love, and that I've done nothing for him. I can't argue with you on that, but what have I done to deserve hell? What has anyone done to deserve hell? Just think of the suffering here on Earth, think of a nonbeliever you love dearly being tortured and beaten on Earth for just a couple days. Could you visit them in the hospital and then think they not only deserved that, but deserve far WORSE than that for ETERNITY? Sickening, unnecessary cruelty is the issue here, nothing more.

I understand the logic you place here.
Because of compassion, I struggled for a time myself.

Untill I came face to face with pure evil.

Not something one should seek or ask for.
But when this was shown I was so thankful to Jesus not only for His gift of salvation, but also for the wrath of God and His provision of hell.
I thank and praise Jesus for His love and protection when shown this.
I hope you will never know evil in this way, but seeing evil does open ones eyes to how it invades and seeks to claim as many as it can.
Pride, self promotion, the belief of ones own abuility to reason and know better than God, are a few of evil's deceptions, its desire to bring as many to its own is endless destruction filled with lies.
It is subtle and feeds on ones self, one that believes they have it all understood and figured out.
Remember, satan believed himself to be better, if not more than God.
Hell is not just about condemnation, but the fear to be motivated to avoid evil.
And yes, one does choose condemnation.
I know I cannot reason this or even convince you as to hell, and what pure evil is.
I can only witness, in Jesus, praying that all who dispute hell and Jesus, will consider and believe.
I pray in Jesus that none will ever know the death that is evil and condemnation.

In Jesus, God bless.
pickles

 

[Crypto]

Jonah 2:1-6
(1) Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
(2) And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
(3) For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
(4) Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.
(5) The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
(6) I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

Jonah was only in the belly for 3 days but verse 6 says that it was forever

Jude 1:7
(7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

It says in this verse that Sodom and Gommorrha suffering the vengeance eternal fire but they are not burning now. The punishment is eternal but not the punishing.

Jonah in the fishes belly isn't a type for hell, so that's a major stretch to try to apply that and the second, Sodom and Gomorrah illustrate God's fire of earthly judgment (Rev. 16:8-9; 20:9) which was only a preview of the fire of hell that won't be quenched. (Matthew 3:12; 18:8;25:41, Mark 9:43-44, 46,48; Luke 3:17; Rev. 19:20; 20:14-15; 21:8) A person has to butcher other passages to make your interpretation fit.

 

[Laodicea]

Jonah in the fishes belly isn't a type for hell, so that's a major stretch to try to apply that and the second, Sodom and Gomorrah illustrate God's fire of earthly judgment (Rev. 16:8-9; 20:9) which was only a preview of the fire of hell that won't be quenched. (Matthew 3:12; 18:8;25:41, Mark 9:43-44, 46,48; Luke 3:17; Rev. 19:20; 20:14-15; 21:8) A person has to butcher other passages to make your interpretation fit.

All I am hearing is someone who is taking a few verses and building a whole doctrine on it. I you want to understand the Bible you need to read every verse in the Bible on a subject why dont you get a Strong's concordance and look up every word in the Bible on hell and quench and then you can get the full picture not only part of it. Consider these few verses on quench
2 Chronicles 34:24-25
(24) Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah:
(25) Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched.
Isaiah 1:31
(31) And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
Jeremiah 7:20
(20) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

These verses are talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and a fire that shall not be quenched according to what you say then it should be still burning but if it is an example then that means hell fire will last a short time but the punishment will be eternal
Read every verse in the Bible on any subject then you will get the full picture that was Jesus method He used all the Bible not part of it.

 

[Crypto]

All I am hearing is someone who is taking a few verses and building a whole doctrine on it. I you want to understand the Bible you need to read every verse in the Bible on a subject why dont you get a Strong's concordance and look up every word in the Bible on hell and quench and then you can get the full picture not only part of it. Consider these few verses on quench
2 Chronicles 34:24-25
(24) Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the curses that are written in the book which they have read before the king of Judah:
(25) Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be poured out upon this place, and shall not be quenched.
Isaiah 1:31
(31) And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.
Jeremiah 7:20
(20) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

These verses are talking about the destruction of Jerusalem and a fire that shall not be quenched according to what you say then it should be still burning but if it is an example then that means hell fire will last a short time but the punishment will be eternal
Read every verse in the Bible on any subject then you will get the full picture that was Jesus method He used all the Bible not part of it.

I see a fallacy in trying to determine the usage of a Greek term, such as passages in Revelation (the NT was obviously written in Greek) by OT Hebrew passages. Show us a NT example.

 

[Laodicea]

I see a fallacy in trying to determine the usage of a Greek term, such as passages in Revelation (the NT was obviously written in Greek) by OT Hebrew passages. Show us a NT example.

Do you believe all the Bible or part of it? God speaks all languages.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Laodicea]

I see a fallacy in trying to determine the usage of a Greek term, such as passages in Revelation (the NT was obviously written in Greek) by OT Hebrew passages. Show us a NT example.

I follow Jesus example and use all the Bible not part of it
Luke 24:27
(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

[rainacorn]

LaylieCalmMind, if you're so sure that you're correct on this issue, why are we talking about it?

Is this an attempt to convince believers that they are incorrect?

Are you prepared for the consequences of THAT action?

 

[LaylieCalmMind]

LaylieCalmMind, if you're so sure that you're correct on this issue, why are we talking about it?

Is this an attempt to convince believers that they are incorrect?

Are you prepared for the consequences of THAT action?

Well at first I just wanted to get the poll up to get a handle on the community's beliefs, which I have. But then I couldn't help myself and ended up compelled to discuss further with those who presented ideas I took issue with. I suppose that's not a terrible thing, dialogue between two parties who disagree is often enlightening. And I don't have some sort of ultimate motive behind having a discussion in an internet forum, nor do I need to. I think the reasons that I am attracted to conversation and this is a topic which I feel very strongly about are enough.

But I suppose yes, I would much rather people believe in annihilation, simple separation from god, everyone goes to heaven, or that people are judged on the basis of their character instead of beliefs. The consequences of believing in one of these things instead of literal eternal torture, I think are quite positive, at least for me, the belief in hell was painful and self destructive to hold.

 

[Alabasterboxky]

Hell will be a culmination of torture and separation from God, or that is what the bible says it will be. It is not so much what I believe as it is what the word of God says. It is a place where the fire is never quenched and the worm dieth not. It is never being able to call upon God, never to feel his presence, remembering every time you had a chance to be saved and rejected God, your families cries, the weeping and wailing of others in torment...if we really got a good fix on hell, we surely would not want to go there. I think that is why Jesus talked so much about hell...he was trying to warn us to not make that choice.

 

[rainacorn]

Well at first I just wanted to get the poll up to get a handle on the community's beliefs, which I have. But then I couldn't help myself and ended up compelled to discuss further with those who presented ideas I took issue with. I suppose that's not a terrible thing, dialogue between two parties who disagree is often enlightening. And I don't have some sort of ultimate motive behind having a discussion in an internet forum, nor do I need to. I think the reasons that I am attracted to conversation and this is a topic which I feel very strongly about are enough.

But I suppose yes, I would much rather people believe in annihilation, simple separation from god, everyone goes to heaven, or that people are judged on the basis of their character instead of beliefs. The consequences of believing in one of these things instead of literal eternal torture, I think are quite positive, at least for me, the belief in hell was painful and self destructive to hold.

Are you prepared for the consequences of trying to encourage "separation from god"?

You say you're bothered by the very idea of eternal punishment (eternal separation from God) for a failure to believe (choosing to have separation from God). However, you're also actively trying to separate people from Him. If the spiritual world is real, you're doing the devil's work.

Now if there is a God (and therefore a Hell), are you prepared to take responsibility for turning people away from Him? When others are cast to Hell for listening to you and turning away from God... will you be ok with that?

There are many other things you've said that I would like to address, but this is probably the most spiritually important part, so I'll leave it here.

 

[Alabasterboxky]

The bible says we will be judged by what we did here on this earth. It won't really matter what we believe , it will matter about what God says is going to happen and why.

 

[LaylieCalmMind]

Are you prepared for the consequences of trying to encourage "separation from god"?

You say you're bothered by the very idea of eternal punishment (eternal separation from God) for a failure to believe (choosing to have separation from God). However, you're also actively trying to separate people from Him. If the spiritual world is real, you're doing the devil's work.

Now if there is a God (and therefore a Hell), are you prepared to take responsibility for turning people away from Him? When others are cast to Hell for listening to you and turning away from God... will you be ok with that?

There are many other things you've said that I would like to address, but this is probably the most spiritually important part, so I'll leave it here.

Let's look at this from another perspective though, let's assume that it's actually Islam that is correct about everything. When you evangelize people to Christianity or attempt to convert Muslims, you're bringing more people to the Islamic hell with you. Hypothetically if this were true, who would be responsible for the torture of these people? Would it be you, or would it be Allah? I say you are innocent, and Allah is the evil one. You have done nothing wrong, you only wished the best for the people you communicated with, Allah is responsible, not you. And I feel the same way in this Islamic perspective, as I do in the Christian perspective, in the hypothetical situation in which your beliefs are true, god is the evil one, not me. Allah is the evil one, not you.

Also, believing that hell is literally eternal torture is not a requirement to be a Christian. I didn't create hell nor would I ever wish harm or torture upon anyone. I've thoroughly explained this and refuted any justifications for hell in this thread, all I see now are people not even trying to back up the justice of it, just asserting other things, like trying to say I'd be responsible for the torture of others.

 

[rainacorn]

Why avoid my question, LaylieCalmMind?

 

[LaylieCalmMind]

Why avoid my question, LaylieCalmMind?

Please re-read my response. I explained why I would not be responsible for the torture of others, it would be whatever god (Allah or otherwise) which created the hell that would be responsible. I explained that believing that hell is literally eternal torture is not a requirement for being a Christian, unless you think Jesus following Christians who believe in annihilation are damned to hell because of that. And I've also said that there are so many different theories about the afterlife, you can't use the assumption that one of them is true to bring guilt or responsibility down upon those here on Earth, because a Muslim could do the exact same thing to you. So really, I've invalidated the entire basis for your question, I've avoided nothing, but I haven't seen you actually respond to my arguments yet, so I'm confused as to why I'm the one being accused of avoiding here.

 

[Crypto]

I follow Jesus example and use all the Bible not part of it
Luke 24:27
(27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Of course, but you can't define what Greek words mean by using a Hebrew word. It's really bad hermeneutics.

 

[rainacorn]

Please re-read my response. I explained why I would not be responsible for the torture of others, it would be whatever god (Allah or otherwise) which created the hell that would be responsible. I explained that believing that hell is literally eternal torture is not a requirement for being a Christian, unless you think Jesus following Christians who believe in annihilation are damned to hell because of that. And I've also said that there are so many different theories about the afterlife, you can't use the assumption that one of them is true to bring guilt or responsibility down upon those here on Earth, because a Muslim could do the exact same thing to you. So really, I've invalidated the entire basis for your question, I've avoided nothing, but I haven't seen you actually respond to my arguments yet, so I'm confused as to why I'm the one being accused of avoiding here.

Rejecting my question isn't answering it. Let me show you.

Muslims believe we worship the same god, so I don't really see why Allah would have any problem with me converting people to Christianity, by their own standards. Your question is nonsense.

However, I do understand what you were TRYING to say, and I still disagree. God is not evil because consequences exist. Again, He gives you the option to see the Truth, acknowledge Him and live accordingly. You choose to reject Him.

Right now while we are living, we have options. In the end, there are no more options. You made your choice. If you choose live your life without God, you'll spend the rest of eternity without Him. If you choose to live your life with Him, you'll spend the rest of eternity with Him. There are no takebacks. If you hate God and think He is evil, then you should be fine with this arrangement. lol

Many have said in this thread that we shouldn't be so focused on Hell. On that, I certainly agree. Faith by fear, in my opinion, is not the right kind of faith. Hell is not something I fear and it's not something I concern myself with because I am saved. I am a Christian because I love God, not because I'm scared of the devil or something. I remember being your age and thinking some of these same thoughts, so I'm sorry if I'm impatient with you. I hope you wake up soon because I know how hard it is once you finally do. Actively attempting to turn people away because God isn't living up to YOUR standards is a hard thing to accept forgiveness for once you know the truth. However, He gives it. His mercy is truly awesome.