What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself?

[Elin]

Except that the sinful unregenerate nature cannot believe and obey (Ro 8:7-8).

Man must first be born again.

Rom 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

It depends on what a man chooses to set his mind on. If he chooses to set his mind on things after the flesh he will not obey. If he choose to set his mind after things of the spirit he can obey.

Wrong verse.

How can I quote a "wrong verse". it's not wrong just because it does not agree with your theology.

Review it again.

Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Calvinism and Rom 8:5 are not in agreement.

A man minds what he chooses to mind not what God forces him against his will to mind.

How did "Calvinism" get into it?

Ro 8:7-8 is "Calvinism"?

Complete failure again to address Ro 8:7-8.

All you do is set the Scriptures against themselves, Ro 8:5 against Ro 8:7-8, which
ipso facto, means you do not understand them correctly,
because the word of God does not contradict itself.

NON-RESPONSIVE.

 

[jdbear]

Does freewill mean you can choose to do things that violate the laws of physics/nature?

Not apart from God's will, but free will is necessary for you to violate the laws of nature:

And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water,...Mt.14:29

 

[Atwood]

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

He is the Savior, the man who trusts Him, is the savee, the saved.

For anyone reading this, there are certain heretics posting on this forum who need no replies, as they have already gotten plenty of reply and plenty of scripture. If anyone else reads some canard they post, some satanic objection to God's grace in salvation, PM me for any needed explanation.

As Jonah declared long ago, salvation is of YHWH. In our case, living after the resurrection of Christ, we must put our trust in the 2nd person of the Trinity, the God-man, the Lord Jesus Who is & always has been YHWH. For there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.

Speaking of Must, What MUST I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

Whosoever believes gets eternal life.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

This is not really debatable, but satan opposes the truth on many levels and promotes controversy. Read the word to know the truth.

God's truth is vital: If any man proclaim a different gospel, let him be anathema.

6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel: only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

The gospel is an offense to the pride of sinful man who would have his works validated instead of admitting he is a vile sinner who must be saved by a Savior by grace.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

To any who have denied the Savior and made Him a mere chance-giver, you are urged to repent and trust Him as Your Savior today.

 

[jdbear]

Originally posted by Atwood,
Speaking of Must, What MUST I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

Satan will deceive you by convincing you that you have no ability to believe in God. Thankfully, the Bible says otherwise:

What must I do to be saved? Believe..

 

[SeaBass]

How did "Calvinism" get into it?

Ro 8:7-8 is "Calvinism"?

Complete failure again to address Ro 8:7-8.

All you do is set the Scriptures against themselves, Ro 8:5 against Ro 8:7-8, which
ipso facto, means you do not understand them correctly,
because the word of God does not contradict itself.

NON-RESPONSIVE.

I brought Calvinism into it.


Rom 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

You are what you choose to set your mind to:
You are of the flesh if you choose to set your mind on things of the flesh.
You are of the spirit if you choose to set your mind on things of the spirit.


Rom 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

So if you choose to mind the things of the flesh you have a carnal mind which is enmity against God.


Rom 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

So why are they of the flesh and cannot please God? For they choose of their own freewill to mind things of the flesh. Nowhere here does Paul say one cannot change their mind. One who minds the flesh today can choose to change their mind tomorrow and begin minding things of the spirit.

Nowhere does Paul say God forces man to mind one or the other against man's own will.

 

[SeaBass]

Not apart from God's will, but free will is necessary for you to violate the laws of nature:

And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water,...Mt.14:29

What Peter did was miraculous, the "supernatural" and not of the laws a physical, worldly nature. I cannot use my freewill to walk on water or float in the air. So my freewill is limited to stay with in the boundaries of natural law.

 

[SeaBass]

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

He is the Savior, the man who trusts Him, is the savee, the saved.

For anyone reading this, there are certain heretics posting on this forum who need no replies, as they have already gotten plenty of reply and plenty of scripture. If anyone else reads some canard they post, some satanic objection to God's grace in salvation, PM me for any needed explanation.

As Jonah declared long ago, salvation is of YHWH. In our case, living after the resurrection of Christ, we must put our trust in the 2nd person of the Trinity, the God-man, the Lord Jesus Who is & always has been YHWH. For there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.

Speaking of Must, What MUST I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

Whosoever believes gets eternal life.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

This is not really debatable, but satan opposes the truth on many levels and promotes controversy. Read the word to know the truth.

God's truth is vital: If any man proclaim a different gospel, let him be anathema.

6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel: only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

The gospel is an offense to the pride of sinful man who would have his works validated instead of admitting he is a vile sinner who must be saved by a Savior by grace.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sins.

To any who have denied the Savior and made Him a mere chance-giver, you are urged to repent and trust Him as Your Savior today.

Eternal security in NOT in Jn 10:28, you are forcing into the verse. Jn 10:27 tells us who God holds in His hand (Christ's sheep) and why God will not allow them to be snatched away (for Christ's sheep are faithful in their hearing and following and God in turn is faithful not to allow them to be snatched away). No man-made idea of eternal security here at all.

 

[jdbear]

What Peter did was miraculous, the "supernatural" and not of the laws a physical, worldly nature. I cannot use my freewill to walk on water or float in the air. So my freewill is limited to stay with in the boundaries of natural law.

Peter chose to believe of his own free will, then doubted.

 

[Elin]

I brought Calvinism into it.

When did Ro 8:7-8 become "Calvinism"?

Rom 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."

You are what you choose to set your mind to:

Except Paul is talking about the sinful unregenerate nature in Ro 8:7-8,
and he does not state they chose to set their mind,
he states their mind is set. . .by their unregenerate nature,
which can do nothing to please God, including faith.

Which is why faith must be a gift (Php 1:29; 2Pe 1;1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3),
as is repentance (2Tim 2:25; Ac 11:18, 5:31).

 

[Atwood]

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

The only requirement is to be a "them," a sheep. The context adds the information that no one can snatch someone out of the Lord's hands, but that statement in no way qualifies nor diminishes the plain promise of the Lord.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.

Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for
He shall save His people from their sins.

He is the Savior, the man who trusts Him, is the savee, the saved.

For anyone reading this, there are certain heretics posting on this forum who need no replies, as they have already gotten plenty of reply and plenty of scripture. If anyone else reads some canard they post, some satanic objection to God's grace in salvation, PM me for any needed explanation.

As Jonah declared long ago, salvation is of YHWH. In our case, living after the resurrection of Christ, we must put our trust in the 2nd person of the Trinity, the God-man, the Lord Jesus Who is & always has been YHWH. For there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved.

Speaking of Must, What MUST I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, & you shall be saved.

Whosoever believes gets eternal life.

This is not really debatable, but satan opposes the truth on many levels and promotes controversy. Read the word to know the truth.

God's truth is vital: If any man proclaim a different gospel, let him be anathema.

6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another gospel: only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, If any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.

The gospel is an offense to the pride of sinful man who would have his works validated instead of admitting he is a vile sinner who must be saved by a Savior by grace.

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves,
NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY HERETIC ON THIS FORUM SHOULD BOAST!

To any who have denied the Savior and made Him a mere chance-giver, you are urged to repent and trust Him as Your Savior today. Those who have committed idolatry in making water their savior, are likewise urged to repent.

 

[forsha]

You cannot save yourself by yourself.

God saves. So the question is who receives the gift and salvation and who does not and why?

In answering the above question one must consider "salvation is not of yourself" but also consider "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Salvation means a deliverance, delivered from this present evil world into heaven, and being delivered here in this world. Eternal deliverance is by the grace of God without the help of man and timely deliverances are by the works of man in following God's commandments.. All of the scriptures you mentioned are timely deliverances (salvations). Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely deliverances.

 

[SeaBass]

Salvation means a deliverance, delivered from this present evil world into heaven, and being delivered here in this world. Eternal deliverance is by the grace of God without the help of man and timely deliverances are by the works of man in following God's commandments.. All of the scriptures you mentioned are timely deliverances (salvations). Most of the salvation scriptures are referring to timely deliverances.

No verse says man can receive God's grace while man sits and does nothing.

Rom 5:2 man's faith gives him access to God's grace so man's role in his own salvation is to have faith.

Why would Peter say 'YOU have purified your soul' if God is the one that purifies the soul?

Why are men told to 'save themselves' if God alone unconditionally saves?

How/why do men "cleanse ourselves", 2 Cor 7:1 if God alone unconditionally cleanses men?

 

[forsha]

That would be the whosoever wills. John 3:15-17

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thayer's Greek interpretation of the word "world" in this scripture is - any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. Used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. The world referred to in these scriptures do not include all of mankind, but only the believers and according to 1 Cor 2:10-14 we have to first be born of the Spirit before we can believe.

 

[Hizikyah]

What does it mean to say salvation is not of yourself, but is of God?
What is God communicating through verses like below?

Ephesians 2

Man can not save himself.... We are but clay in the "Potter's" hand.... Yah strengthens, guides, corrects, and gives Salvation, for there is no other.

Psalm 27:1, "Yahweh is our Light! You are our Salvation!Yahweh is the Strength of our life! In whom shall we fear? Shall we be afraid?"

Isayah 43:10-12, "You are My witnesses, says Yahweh, and My servants whom I have chosen; so you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He! Before Me there was no god formed, nor will there be after Me. I, even I, am Yahweh; and beside Me there is no savior. I have declared, and I have saved, and I have showed; and no strange god is among you! Therefore, you are My witnesses, says Yahweh: that I AM YAHWEH!"

 

[forsha]

Romans 3:9-12 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
[SUP]12 [/SUP] ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."
How can we seek for our Salvation if no one seeks for God?

Its God who comes looking for us! As for me i am VERY happy that God came looking for me because by myself i would never look for God!

I know many people who try to find God and Salvation by their own works.

Very true words indeed.

 

[forsha]

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This verse says to me that even our faith is a gift from God.

Yes! and the scripture to back your statement up is Galatians 6:22.

 

[forsha]

God saves but the issue is who does He save and why? Heb 5:9 God saves those that obey Him. So those that obey are in a sense "saving themselves" (as the bible says in all those verses I quoted) say since God save the obedient. So both God and myself have a role in my salvation. God alone will not save me without my participating in my role God has given me in obeying Him. And obedience is a life-long event not something a person does just once then quits.

You cannot have a part in saving yourself eternally, but you do have a part in saving yourself here in this world. Salvation means a deliverance and most of the salvation scriptures are referring to deliverances here in this world. Scripture does not contradict itself.

 

[SeaBass]

You cannot have a part in saving yourself eternally, but you do have a part in saving yourself here in this world. Salvation means a deliverance and most of the salvation scriptures are referring to deliverances here in this world. Scripture does not contradict itself.

Man does have a role in his own salvation: "Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:40; "in doing this thou shalt both save thyself" 1 Tim 4:16; "work out your own salvation" Phil 2:12; "Seeing ye have purified your souls" 1 Pet 1:22; "let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit" 2 Cor 7:1; "Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts" James 4:8

Again:
Why would Peter say 'YOU have purified your soul' if God is the one that purifies the soul?

Why are men told to 'save themselves' if God alone unconditionally saves?

How/why do men "cleanse ourselves", 2 Cor 7:1 if God alone unconditionally cleanses men?

 

[forsha]

Faith comes by hearing the word of God, Rom 10:17 and is not a gift God randomly gives to some and withholds from others. That idea puts fault and blame upon God for the faithless.

Jn 6:45 tells us how God draws men: It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Men are taught, hear and learn the word of God, and it by that hearing men have faith. So the drawing is nothing magical or irresistible. The result of God drawing is "cometh unto Me" man of his free will comes to God.

God draws, me come.

One of the post's have already told you that faith is a fruit of the Spirit and you have to be born of the Spirit before you can understand anything that is of a spiritual nature according to 1 Cor 2:10-14. Yes, faith comes by hearing, but you can not hear and understand unless you have already been born of the Spirit.

 

[SeaBass]

Yes! and the scripture to back your statement up is Galatians 6:22.

IN Jn 6:44 HOW does God draw men?

Verse 45 says HOW "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

So the drawing is not some mystical, irresistible drawing but is done by the word of God when one is TAUGHT, HEARS and LEARNS about that word then of his own will "cometh unto Christ".


God draws, men come.