What does that simple question reveal?
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Without faith it is impossible to please God. And as scripture reveals the reality of being born again involves steps of faith that have nothing to do with the law. Your point concerning the need to walk in the Spirit in order not to sin is without a doubt true. However, one must first have the indwelling presence of the Spirit before that is even possible. Acts 19:1-7 has nothing to do with walking in the Spirit, it provides a window into the NT rebirth (being born again). The elements presented confirm what all other conversion accounts do. They involve belief, obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus, and evidence that the individuals received the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-6, 22:16)
It is obvious why Paul asked the Ephesians the question. Paul knew that belief and receiving the Holy Ghost were essential elements of salvation. (Rom. 8:9) Note that the Holy Ghost DID NOT came to dwell in those individuals at the point of their believing in Jesus, nor when they were rebaptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was when Paul laid hands on each of the twelve. Also relevant is the fact that elsewhere in scripture individuals were indwelt by the Holy Ghost after believing in Jesus, and before obedience to the command to be water baptized. However, one thing that is consistent is there was indisputable evidence that accompanied the experience.
Lastly, consider what Jesus Himself said about receiving the Holy Ghost. His words speak directly to the error that receiving the Holy Ghost happens spontaneously when a person believes: "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)
It is obvious why Paul asked the Ephesians the question. Paul knew that belief and receiving the Holy Ghost were essential elements of salvation. (Rom. 8:9) Note that the Holy Ghost DID NOT came to dwell in those individuals at the point of their believing in Jesus, nor when they were rebaptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus. It was when Paul laid hands on each of the twelve. Also relevant is the fact that elsewhere in scripture individuals were indwelt by the Holy Ghost after believing in Jesus, and before obedience to the command to be water baptized. However, one thing that is consistent is there was indisputable evidence that accompanied the experience.
Lastly, consider what Jesus Himself said about receiving the Holy Ghost. His words speak directly to the error that receiving the Holy Ghost happens spontaneously when a person believes: "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?" (Luke 11:13)
To baptize in Jesus name is water baptism. Note the distinction directly addressed in Peter's statement. He says can any forbid the individuals from being baptized in the name of the Lord (Jesus) in water WHO HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST.
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. .." Acts 10:47-48
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. .." Acts 10:47-48
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Actually for clarification, when they were rebaptized in the name of the Lord, they DID receive the Holy Ghost as per Acts 2:38, the indwelling of the Spirit, no different than anyone baptized including us today; it's when Paul laid his hands on them that the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit occurred as was the case then but not now since the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit, or imparting of the gifts of the Spirit, those listed in 1Cor 12:8-10, occurred upon the laying on of the apostle's hands confirmed by such verses as Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6-8, Acts 8:9-19, Acts 19:6, and 2 Tim 1:6.
What I have tried to share with you is that there is a difference between being indwelt by the Spirit and the outward manifestation of the Spirit. You are right that the Spirit didn't fall on them in Ephesus when they believed. But they couldn't have believed and not received the Spirit. That's my point. The subsequent falling of the Spirit on them was a confirmation of having truly believed before. Your example shows them to be 2 different things.
The indwelling of the Spirit is spoken of in Romans 8. The baptism of the Spirit is spoken of in Ephesians 1.
The indwelling of the Spirit is spoken of in Romans 8. The baptism of the Spirit is spoken of in Ephesians 1.
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It simply reveals that belief does not automatically result in a person being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. The account further confirms the truth Paul's question expresses.
Consider the fact that if Paul thought belief alone brought about the reality there would have been no need for him to ask that specific question; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?"
Consider the fact that if Paul thought belief alone brought about the reality there would have been no need for him to ask that specific question; "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?"
There should be not confusion. Confusion arises because people refuse to focus on the question. And, I believe many know exactly what the question expresses but as such rebel at the idea they must reassess their current belief system. The image is applicable to the point. It has proved true in my own walk and believe others could attest to it too.
Yes, that is correct Cornious's house was water baptized after being saved and filled with the Holy Spirit.
The term "In the name of the Lord" means by the authority given to do so. Nothing there states they were baptized as
" I baptize you in the name of Jesus". That is assumed.
Jesus said Go and baptize everyone one of you, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
Matthew 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
If Peter was baptizing in the name of Jesus, why did he do so?
Well, the Book of Acts gives us the reason.
Acts Chapter 4 Peter is arrested, And the Sanhedrin asked Peter.
Acts 4:7 And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, “By what power or by what name have you done this?
What authority did you have to do this healing? Is what they were asking if you read the Greek text, its plain to see.
8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them,
“Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’ 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”
13 Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and untrained men, they marveled. And they realized that they had been with Jesus.
14 And seeing the man who had been healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.
15 But when they had commanded them to go aside out of the council, they conferred among themselves, 16 saying, “What shall we do to these men? For, indeed, that a notable miracle has been done through them is evident to all who dwell in Jerusalem, and we cannot deny it.
17 But so that it spreads no further among the people, let us severely threaten them, that from now on they speak to no man in this name.”
18 So they called them and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said to them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you more than to God, you judge. 20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.”
It is after that Peter and the Apostles, as an act of Protest, baptized in the Name of Jesus to bring attention to Jesus as the promised Messiah. Remember, they were trying to stop the message of Jesus being raised from the Dead who they crucified.
Baptized in Jesus' name ( water Baptism) I believe, is a valid way to be baptized, but so is in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Yet neither one will save you. Jesus saved us.
In the early church, they were saved, and water baptized the same day. There were purifying pools all over the place.
The Baptism of Jesus is not with Water. It is with the Holy Spirit. as John 1:33 says.
Peter and all the Apostles were water baptized and saved before the day of Pentacost. There is no Biblical record of Peter being baptized in water after the day of Pentacost. Accept Paul. None of the 12 were. And they were not Baptized in the name of Jesus, nor were they baptized by Jesus in water.
To understand the context, we must also understand the authorial intent. Luke wrote after the events happened. This is why Luke records in Acts. 2:38
“Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
I do not agree that the Spiritual gifts are transferred by the laying on of hands since scripture reveals the Spirit bestows gifts at His discretion. Nor do I believe the gifts are no longer in practice.
"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." 1 Cor 12:8-11
Many of the scriptures you presented specifically address that the individuals are receiving the Holy Ghost not spiritual gifts.
"For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." 1 Cor 12:8-11
Many of the scriptures you presented specifically address that the individuals are receiving the Holy Ghost not spiritual gifts.
the pneumatikos Gifts of the Holy Spirit are
- of God the Holy Spirit
- to one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God
“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
I was responding to your post #89 comment, "They were not baptized in water in Jesus' name." As you acknowledged in this last post, being baptized in the name of Jesus refers to water baptism. Which one do you actually believe? There is no record of anyone in the NT being baptized in water any other way. W
Did you read my responses? I don't think you did.
Post 89 was after my 85 post. Which was about the Disciples at Ephesus who Paul met.
I said " They were not baptized in water in Jesus' name. That is assumed. The baptism of The Lord is with the Holy Spirit, not with water. In fact, there is no scripture that says Jesus himself Baptized anyone in the water.
The disciples at Ephesus who Paul met were saved but not BAPTIZED in the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:2-5
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?( Saved ) And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7 And all the men were about twelve.
People have hands laid upon them to receive the GIFT of the Holy Ghost. There is no need to have hands laid upon a person to initiate the Spiritual gifts. Spiritual gifts naturally flow from the Holy Ghost residing within a person as long as the person does not quench the flow. I have had real life experience where this is concerned. And many others can attest to the fact that operation of a Spiritual gift is not necessarily ongoing. Why? Because it is the Holy Ghost who knows which Spiritual gift is needed and when it's necessary to flow for a given purpose.
First of all no one is saved without the indwelling presence of the Holy Ghost. Paul makes that distinction of believing and receiving the Holy Ghost that is the exact point of the OP.
Furthermore, to say that the term baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus means something in one scripture and then changes meaning in another is not accurate. It is believing that that causes confusion.
Furthermore, to say that the term baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus means something in one scripture and then changes meaning in another is not accurate. It is believing that that causes confusion.
I agree in part with what you have said, but not all.
All the gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in 1cor chapter 12 are for the church today and have not stopped. There is nothing in scripture that says they have or that because of the canonization of the 66 Books of the bible, the gifts are no longer needed. Just because one has not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
2. Not everyone who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit had hands laid on them, as Acts shows us with the House of Cornious
3. Bot everyone who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit was water baptized before
4. There is two different things the Holy Spirit does to the believer one who is saved as Jesus said in John chapter 14:17 The Holy Spirit will be WITH YOU and IN YOU
All the gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in 1cor chapter 12 are for the church today and have not stopped. There is nothing in scripture that says they have or that because of the canonization of the 66 Books of the bible, the gifts are no longer needed. Just because one has not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
2. Not everyone who has been baptized in the Holy Spirit had hands laid on them, as Acts shows us with the House of Cornious
3. Bot everyone who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit was water baptized before
4. There is two different things the Holy Spirit does to the believer one who is saved as Jesus said in John chapter 14:17 The Holy Spirit will be WITH YOU and IN YOU