What does the Law REALLY say?

[KohenMatt]

TEMPLE – Final Part

79 Exodus 20:25 - Build not an Altar of stones which were touched by iron.
And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.


80 Exodus 20:26 - Not to have an ascent to the Altar by steps.
Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.


81 Leviticus 6:13 - Not to extinguish the Altar fire.
The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.


82 Exodus 30:9 - Offer nothing, but specified incense, on Golden Altar.
Ye shall offer no strange incense thereon, nor burnt sacrifice, nor meat offering; neither shall ye pour drink offering thereon.


83 Exodus 30:32 - Not to make any oil the same as the Oil of Anointment.
Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.


84 Exodus 30:32 - Anoint none with special oil except Cohen Gadol (High Priest) and King.
Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.


85 Exodus 30:37 - Not to make incense same as burnt on Altar in Sanctuary.
And as for the perfume which thou shalt make, ye shall not make to yourselves according to the composition thereof: it shall be unto thee holy for the LORD.


86 Exodus 25:15 - Not to remove the staves from their rings in the Ark.
The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.


87 Exodus 28:28 - Not to remove the Breastplate from the Ephod.
And they shall bind the breastplate by the rings thereof unto the rings of the ephod with a lace of blue, that it may be above the curious girdle of the ephod, and that the breastplate be not loosed from the ephod.


88 Exodus 28:32 - Make not any incision in Cohen haGadol's (High Priest’s) upper garment.
And there shall be an hole in the top of it, in the midst thereof: it shall have a binding of woven work round about the hole of it, as it were the hole of an habergeon, that it be not rent.

 

[Elin]

The Law says be blessed in the blessings, of the Law. Thats one thing i see it saying to me, notice i said thats what it says to me, if it says something different to someone else, who am i to tell them what something says to them.

What about (Eph 1:3) for the NT believer in Christ? The blessings that we are in Christ through the Spirit and from every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. You want to take the OT laws and make them up to date so that believers have to come under those laws to obey them or they will not be blessed.
Your motive is to have all believers come under the law and the blessings that you ascribe to the law.

Our blessings under grace (not the law) are all in Christ and they are all by faith.

Just because one reads a letter from Paul to the Ephesians does not make him Ephesian, or chosen, or Christian.
The same goes with reading any promises in NT, and OT for that matter.
Just because Paul wrote Ephesians 1:3 does not nullify the Word of God spoken through and recorded by Moses and the prophets.

Did he have to write "the law is spiritual, righteous and holy" after each verse in every letter?

Straw man.

No one questions the nature of the law, and yet
it condemns everyone to eternal death
because they cannot keep it to righteousness.

God had to give us his gift of righteousness (Ro 5:17, 1:17), or we would never be righteous.

Read the post I was answering to. Read it again.
Read my post. Read it again.
And see if you are even answering my post.

In addition to not specifying to which post you were responding
the record speaks for itself.

Your response was a straw man.

 

[chubbena]

In addition to not specifying to which post you were responding
the record speaks for itself.

Your response was a straw man.

Indeed the record speaks for itself. One went so far as quoting everyone in this particular conversation yet failed to see which post I was responding to.
One has to wonder why this poster turns every law thread into a mindless debate.

 

[Elin]

In addition to not specifying to which post you were responding
the record speaks for itself.

Your response was a straw man.

Indeed the record speaks for itself. One went so far as quoting everyone in this particular conversation yet
failed to see which post I was responding to.

Was there any failure on your part there?

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

 

[KohenMatt]

Sacrifices - Part 1 of 6

89 Deuteronomy 12:13 - Offer not sacrifices outside Sanctuary (Temple) Court.
Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:


90 Leviticus 17:3-4 - Slaughter not consecrated animals outside Temple Court.
What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:


91 Leviticus 22:20 - Dedicate not a blemished animal to be offered on Altar.
But whatsoever hath a blemish, that shall ye not offer: for it shall not be acceptable for you.


92 Leviticus 22:22 - Not to slaughter a blemished animal as a korban (sacrifice). .
Blind, or broken, or maimed, or having a wen, or scurvy, or scabbed, ye shall not offer these unto the LORD, nor make an offering by fire of them upon the altar unto the LORD.


93 Leviticus 22:24 - Not to dash the blood of a blemished beast on the Altar.
Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.


94 Leviticus 22:22 - Not to burn the inner parts of blemished beast on Altar.
Blind, or broken, or maimed, or having a wen, or scurvy, or scabbed, ye shall not offer these unto the LORD, nor make an offering by fire of them upon the altar unto the LORD.


95 Deuteronomy 17:1 - Not to sacrifice a beast with a temporary blemish.
Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God.


96 Leviticus 22:25 - Not to offer a blemished sacrifice of a gentile.
Neither from a stranger's hand shall ye offer the bread of your God of any of these; because their corruption is in them, and blemishes be in them: they shall not be accepted for you.


97 Leviticus 22:21 - Not to cause a consecrated offering to become blemished.
And whosoever offereth a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the LORD to accomplish his vow, or a freewill offering in beeves or sheep, it shall be perfect to be accepted; there shall be no blemish therein.


98 Leviticus 2:11 - Not to offer leaven or honey upon the Altar.
No meat offering, which ye shall bring unto the LORD, shall be made with leaven: for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, in any offering of the LORD made by fire.


99 Leviticus 2:13 - Not to offer a sacrifice without salt.
And every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt; neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering: with all thine offerings thou shalt offer salt.


100 Deuteronomy 23:18 - Offer not on Altar: "hire of harlot" or "price of dog".
Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

 

[JesusIsAll]

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[just-me]

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

I was going to say that one has to question where the love is that is supposed to be in God's children. Then I thought "I understand why there isn't." If I explain, then I will be attacked for having it wrong according to other's opinion. Seems as if we have made up our own definition of what it is. What it isn't is stroking egos, and what it isn't is inventing labels of demonetization. LOL Oh well I'll ask it anyway. Where's the love? Good scripture by the way.

 

[JesusIsAll]

I was going to say that one has to question where the love is that is supposed to be in God's children. Then I thought "I understand why there isn't." If I explain, then I will be attacked for having it wrong according to other's opinion. Seems as if we have made up our own definition of what it is. What it isn't is stroking egos, and what it isn't is inventing labels of demonetization. LOL Oh well I'll ask it anyway. Where's the love? Good scripture by the way.

It's a matter of vigilance we look at things we do as to whether we'd want others to treat us the same, if we have the Holy Spirit, anyway. Gratuitous bickering and anger are wrong, but it is also love to reprove and rebuke. To me, if somebody is simply being mean and argumentative, some emotional, psycho control freak, this pretty much speaks for itself? How can we say we have love, if we don't have some even small standard of being nice and civilized? I discount anything the raging people, the "you're Satanic" sock puppets have to say, with a worn exclamation mark keytop, or those who put words in others' mouths to bicker, that shout, just stop reading them.

 

[JaumeJ]

The following ten commandments are not based on God's Love. These commandments are of the enemy and his followers.

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring false idols before me.
3. Do take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember not the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor not thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall commit adultery.
8. Thou shall steal††.
9. Thou shall bear false witness against your neighbor
10. Thou shall covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

The following Ten Commandments are from true, eternal Love.

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall not commit adultery.
8. Thou shall not steal††.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10. Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

Does anyone wish to dispute this truth?

 

[just-me]

It's a matter of vigilance we look at things we do as to whether we'd want others to treat us the same, if we have the Holy Spirit, anyway. Gratuitous bickering and anger are wrong, but it is also love to reprove and rebuke. To me, if somebody is simply being mean and argumentative, some emotional, psycho control freak, this pretty much speaks for itself? How can we say we have love, if we don't have some even small standard of being nice and civilized? I discount anything the raging people, the "you're Satanic" sock puppets have to say, with a worn exclamation mark keytop, or those who put words in others' mouths to bicker, that shout, just stop reading them.

So back to the thread title. I think the love "waxes cold" because the "so called" Christians community (not all) have taught that the law has vanished and is void. The question is what has really vanished? It certainly isn't the definitive instruction concerning "love." Here is just a glimps of the instructions of love found in the law. Attitude, simply attitude according to the principles.
Leviticus 19:13-18
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Isn't it phenomenal that what has been abolished according to opinion has the very details of exacting the love that is obviously vanishing? Make the law vanish, and make the hate flourish. Make the law valid, and make the love flourish. Is that not really simple?

 

[Elin]

The following ten commandments are not based on God's Love. These commandments are of the enemy and his followers.

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring false idols before me.
3. Do take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember not the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor not thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall commit adultery.
8. Thou shall steal††.
9. Thou shall bear false witness against your neighbor
10. Thou shall covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

The following Ten Commandments are from true, eternal Love.

1. I am the Lord, your God.
2. Thou shall bring no false idols before me.
3. Do not take the name of the Lord in vain.
4. Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.
5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
6. Thou shall not kill/murder†.
7. Thou shall not commit adultery.
8. Thou shall not steal††.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
10. Thou shall not covet‡ your neighbor's wife (or anything that belongs to your neighbor).

Does anyone wish to dispute this truth?

There are a couple more from true eternal love in Mt 22:37-40.

 

[chubbena]

Sacrifices - Part 1 of 6

89 Deuteronomy 12:13 - Offer not sacrifices outside Sanctuary (Temple) Court.
Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:


90 Leviticus 17:3-4 - Slaughter not consecrated animals outside Temple Court.
What man soever there be of the house of Israel, that killeth an ox, or lamb, or goat, in the camp, or that killeth it out of the camp, And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:


91 Leviticus 22:20 - Dedicate not a blemished animal to be offered on Altar.
But whatsoever hath a blemish, that shall ye not offer: for it shall not be acceptable for you.


92 Leviticus 22:22 - Not to slaughter a blemished animal as a korban (sacrifice). .
Blind, or broken, or maimed, or having a wen, or scurvy, or scabbed, ye shall not offer these unto the LORD, nor make an offering by fire of them upon the altar unto the LORD.


93 Leviticus 22:24 - Not to dash the blood of a blemished beast on the Altar.
Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land....

Questions:
How did the Christ fulfill such when He was sacrificed outside the temple on the cross?
We know He's beaten because of our sins but there's no mentioning of such on animal sacrifices. Did I miss something?
Please no trouble makers here.

 

[just-me]

Questions:
How did the Christ fulfill such when He was sacrificed outside the temple on the cross?
We know He's beaten because of our sins but there's no mentioning of such on animal sacrifices. Did I miss something?
Please no trouble makers here.

Leviticus 4:12 Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt .

There are more references also. The Bullock represents Christ. I know that in the past I only understand the lamb in relation to Jesus, but that was only relating to Passover, and the offering of a lamb every morning and evening. Within myself, I feel I don't know a whole lot about it yet, but I have been studying and praying about all the temple things of the OT for about 2 years (relating it to the new covenant) and God is giving the increase as He knows I am capable of receiving. Precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little. You know.

I am still trying to understand the relationship of "by His stripes we are healed."

Deuteronomy 12:1-3
1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten , that the judge shall cause him to lie down , and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed : lest, if he should exceed , and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

Maybe a Barabbas thing.

 

[Elin]

Questions:
How did the Christ fulfill such when He was sacrificed outside the temple on the cross?
We know He's beaten because of our sins but there's no mentioning of such on animal sacrifices. Did I miss something?
Please no trouble makers here.

Christ dying north of the city (outside Jerusalem) fulfilled Lev 1:11,
where the sacrifice was slaughtered on the north side of the altar.

Also note in Lev 4:12 and 16:27 that sacrifices were taken outside the camp and burned.

 

[Elin]

I am still trying to understand the relationship of "by His stripes we are healed."

Are you referring to Peter's quoting (1Pe 2:24) of Isa 53:5?

Would his "stripes" not refer to his suffering from the wounds (stripes) of the whips
at his crucifixion?

Jesus quotes Isa 53:4 in Mt 8:17:

"This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:
'He took up our infirmities (Gr. astheneia)
and carried our diseases ( Gr. astheneia).' "

Is 53:4 reads:

"Surely he took up our infirmities,
and carried our sorrows (Heb. makob)
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him and afflicted."

As he took up the physical infirmities and diseases in his earthly ministry (Mt 8:17),
so he took up our spiritual infirmities and diseases (sin) on the cross (Isa 53:5),
where he was smitten by God and afflicted for our sin (Isa 53:4).

Deuteronomy 12:1-3
1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten , that the judge shall cause him to lie down , and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed : lest, if he should exceed , and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

Maybe a Barabbas thing.

 

[Hoffco]

You're right Hashe, the Law never states there are 613 specific Laws. But when people talk about the Law, it is usually recognized that there are 613. And like I said, "I'm using the grouping and ordering as compiled by the Jewish scholar Maimonides, aka Rambam."

Sorry, I am not concerned about some man named Maimonides, said, the real concern is what Jesus said. We should feel like Paul said Phil.3:7-9 "But what things were gain to me, these I have counted lost for Christ. ... and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in Him... ." But let us allow the thread to go smoothly and see what we can learn. Love Hoffco ps. I only read the first page ??/ so I don't know how it is going,

 

[Hoffco]

To Matt, are you trying to say,that Christ could not be the real messiah because He suffered so much that He would be rejected on the O.T. alter? If so ,you are of Satan, What is your motive for giving all this info.? Love Hoffco

 

[just-me]

I was reading yesterday about people who made a vow in Numbers 6. I'll make it short. Many think Jesus had long hair because He was a Nazarite from Nazareth who were not allowed to cut their hair after they made a vow and not until they completed the vow. That is questionable after reading this chapter for the one who made the vow was not suppose to drink wine until their vow was completed. As we know, Jesus passed the cup saying "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins." He then said He would not drink of the fruit of the vine "until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." In relation, from the time that Jesus was arrested, until He said "it is finished" is exactly what He did in Numbers 6 as one who made a vow. As we also know, He finally accepted the vinegar just before He died unlike refusing it at the beginning. I was pleasantly amazed and blessed. There is more but I just wanted to summarize. It's an easy read for those that know the details of our Lord, and Saviors crucifixion. God bless.

 

[chubbena]

Leviticus 4:12 Even the whole bullock shall he carry forth without the camp unto a clean place, where the ashes are poured out, and burn him on the wood with fire: where the ashes are poured out shall he be burnt .

There are more references also. The Bullock represents Christ. I know that in the past I only understand the lamb in relation to Jesus, but that was only relating to Passover, and the offering of a lamb every morning and evening. Within myself, I feel I don't know a whole lot about it yet, but I have been studying and praying about all the temple things of the OT for about 2 years (relating it to the new covenant) and God is giving the increase as He knows I am capable of receiving. Precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little there a little. You know.

I am still trying to understand the relationship of "by His stripes we are healed."

Deuteronomy 12:1-3
1 If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.
2 And it shall be, if the wicked man be worthy to be beaten , that the judge shall cause him to lie down , and to be beaten before his face, according to his fault, by a certain number.
3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed : lest, if he should exceed , and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.

Maybe a Barabbas thing.

Thanks for the beating explanation. On the other hand, I know cursed are the hanged but what about the nailing?

 

[chubbena]

Christ dying north of the city (outside Jerusalem) fulfilled Lev 1:11,
where the sacrifice was slaughtered on the north side of the altar.

Also note in Lev 4:12 and 16:27 that sacrifices were taken outside the camp and burned.

But why was He hanged death outside the city when the animal for the sacrifice is slaughtered at the altar within the temple? Something to do with the scape goat and Hebrews 13:14?
Leviticus 4:12 and 16:27 - go well with Hebrews 13:11-13. Thanks