What does the Law REALLY say?

[Kaycie]

Well it seems to me you are speaking of the law of Moses- not the law of Christ which applies to us today. The Mosaical law speaks of the rules given to those under the physical covenant who lived in old testament times. The ten commandments were just the tip of the iceberg of old testament laws. The law of grace speaks of the rules given to those under the spiritual covenant who live in new testament times. Yes, it is always good to read about the old laws to learn the history of God's people and to compare the shadow to the real things to come, but we are not under old testament laws. We are no longer to listen to the law and the prophets such as Moses and Elijah. (Romans 7:1-4, Matthew 17:1-5)

 

[chubbena]

FAMILY

....
213 Deuteronomy 24:1 - On the law of marriage.
When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
....

Possibly the most difficult to comprehend when the Lord says this one is written because of the hardness of the heart. Any insight?

 

[just-me]

Well it seems to me you are speaking of the law of Moses- not the law of Christ which applies to us today. The Mosaical law speaks of the rules given to those under the physical covenant who lived in old testament times. The ten commandments were just the tip of the iceberg of old testament laws. The law of grace speaks of the rules given to those under the spiritual covenant who live in new testament times. Yes, it is always good to read about the old laws to learn the history of God's people and to compare the shadow to the real things to come, but we are not under old testament laws. We are no longer to listen to the law and the prophets such as Moses and Elijah. (Romans 7:1-4, Matthew 17:1-5)

Your last sentence is a little bewildering when reading what Jesus and Paul said.

John 5:46-47
46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Acts 24:13-14
13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

 

[JaumeJ]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to just-me again. I was just about to say something to the same effect..........Thank you.

It seems those who believe the New Testament only believe what they think they are able to construe as not dealing with the Old Testament, and this all must consider, the Bible is one Book, and all of the Word, that Book, is Jesus Christ........

 

[john832]

Well it seems to me you are speaking of the law of Moses- not the law of Christ which applies to us today.

Whom do you suppose the great I AM who spoke all these Laws to Moses was?

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Joh 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Notice the word he is italicized? Means it was not in the original, but rather the 1611 translators added it.

 

[Brother_Don]

i read the book of Hosea last night, picked up the bible, asked God to lead me, opened up the bible, and it opened to Hosea. So i read it. Just thought that the book of Hosea, would be a good read, when i seen the title of thread.

 

[Brother_Don]

by the way, have a great sabbath All.

 

[chubbena]

i read the book of Hosea last night, picked up the bible, asked God to lead me, opened up the bible, and it opened to Hosea. So i read it. Just thought that the book of Hosea, would be a good read, when i seen the title of thread.

No kidding! I was about to post Hosea 8:11-12 Though Ephraim built many altars for sin offerings, these have become altars for sinning. I wrote for them the many things of my law, but they regarded them as something foreign.

The gospel was to preach repentance for the forgiveness of sins but has become endorsement for sinning when the law is forgotten...

 

[Elin]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to just-me again. I was just about to say something to the same effect..........Thank you.

It seems those who believe the New Testament only believe what they think they are able to construe as not dealing with the Old Testament,

Keeping in mind that appearances are not always reality.

and this all must consider, the Bible is one Book, and all of the Word, that Book, is Jesus Christ........

 

[Elin]

You really don't understand what loving means, whether its God, parents or neighbors, do you?

Can't really help you there, it's an issue of the heart governed by the Holy Spirit.

I totally understand the frustration when one does not admit the "OT" is scripture.

You have me confused with someone else.

Do you see a written code in Mt 22:37-39?

Do you see it's from the "OT" scripture which you called it "written code"?

That is the meaning of the words "letter" (of the law) and "handwriting of ordinances" (the law) in
Ro 2:27, 29, 7:6; Col 2:14.

Okay, do you see any "written ordinances" in Mt 22:37-39?


Thread of previous conversation for context:

I don't need a written code to tell me not

to worship idols or take God's name in vain (of course saying Gee does not count),
to disrespect my parents,
to murder others,
to commit adultery with the spouses of others,
to steal from others,
to lie about others,
to lust after the possessions of others.

Bravo to those who are born with this knowledge and quality.
More marvellous is one could name all these sins without referring to the "old" scripture.

I could name a lot more based on the heart disposition given in the new covenant.

I don't need a written code to tell me
to drive my elderly neighbor to the doctor, or grocery store,
or invite her over to eat with us.

Don't need a written code to tell me
to take my neighbor's dog home when he gets out.

Don't need a written code to tell me
to care for my sick sibling.

Don't need a written code to tell me
to give my employer a full day's work.

Don't need a written code to tell me
to tutor a kid having trouble in school.

Don't need a written code to tell me
to be kind and patient.

Etc., etc., etc.

Do you?

Do I also hear a bravo for the law of Christ written on my heart by his Holy Spirit?

But then does the law in our conscious has to align with the written law? Otherwise
how do we define the law of "love"?

You really don't understand what loving means, whether its God, parents or neighbors, do you?

Can't really help you there, it's an issue of the heart governed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Elin]

The scripture gives same answer when same question is posted.
The word of God does not change like shifting shadows.

Agreed.

See post #470, above.

 

[KohenMatt]

SLAVES

232 Exodus 21:2 - On the special laws for treating the Hebrew bondman.
If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.


233 Exodus 21:8, 9 - Hebrew bondmaid married to her master or his son, or...
If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her. And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.


234 Exodus 21:9 - ...allow the redemption to the Hebrew bondmaid.
And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

 

[KohenMatt]

TORTS

236 Exodus 21:19 - On the penalty for a person inflicting injury.
If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.


237 Exodus 21:28 - On the law of injuries caused by an animal.
If an ox gore a man or a woman, that they die: then the ox shall be surely stoned, and his flesh shall not be eaten; but the owner of the ox shall be quit.


238 Exodus 21:33 - On the law of injuries caused by an pit.
And if a man shall open a pit, or if a man shall dig a pit, and not cover it, and an ox or an ass fall therein;


239 Exodus 22:1 - On the law of punishment of thieves.
If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.


240 Exodus 22:5 - On the law of a judgement for damage caused by a beast.
If a man shall cause a field or vineyard to be eaten, and shall put in his beast, and shall feed in another man's field; of the best of his own field, and of the best of his own vineyard, shall he make restitution.


241 Exodus 22:6 - On the law of a judgement for damage caused by a fire.
If fire break out, and catch in thorns, so that the stacks of corn, or the standing corn, or the field, be consumed therewith; he that kindled the fire shall surely make restitution.


242 Exodus 22:7 - On the law of an unpaid guardian.
If a man shall deliver unto his neighbour money or stuff to keep, and it be stolen out of the man's house; if the thief be found, let him pay double.


243 Exodus 22:11 - On the law of a paid guardian.
Then shall an oath of the LORD be between them both, that he hath not put his hand unto his neighbour's goods; and the owner of it shall accept thereof, and he shall not make it good.


244 Exodus 22:14 - On the law of a borrower.
And if a man borrow ought of his neighbour, and it be hurt, or die, the owner thereof being not with it, he shall surely make it good.


245 Leviticus 25:14 - On the law of buying and selling.
And if thou sell ought unto thy neighbour, or buyest ought of thy neighbour's hand, ye shall not oppress one another:


246 Exodus 22:9 - On the law of litigants.
For all manner of trespass, whether it be for ox, for ass, for sheep, for raiment, or for any manner of lost thing, which another challengeth to be his, the cause of both parties shall come before the judges; and whom the judges shall condemn, he shall pay double unto his neighbour.


247 Deuteronomy 25:1 - Save life of one pursued.
If there be a controversy between men, and they come unto judgment, that the judges may judge them; then they shall justify the righteous, and condemn the wicked.


248 Numbers 27:8 - On the law of inheritance.
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter.

Traditionally speaking, this is the last of the Positive Laws of the Torah.

 

[Brother_Don]

The Law says be blessed in the blessings, of the Law. Thats one thing i see it saying to me, notice i said thats what it says to me, if it says something different to someone else, who am i to tell them what something says to them.

 

[KohenMatt]

The 365 Negative Mizvot/ Commandments: “The Don’ts”
IDOLATRY AND RELATED PRACTICES

1 Exodus 20:3 - No other gods before me.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me.


2 Exodus 20:4 - Not to make graven images.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


3 Leviticus 19:4 - Not to make an idol (even for others) to worship.
Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.


4 Exodus 20:4 - Not to make figures of human beings.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


5 Exodus 20:5 - Not to bow down to an idol.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


6 Exodus 20:5 - Not to serve idols.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;


7 Leviticus 18:21 - Not to hand over any children to Molech
And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.


8 Leviticus 19:31 - Not to seek after wizards.
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.


9 Leviticus 19:31 - Not to regard them that have familiar spirits.
Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.


10 Leviticus 19:4 - Not to study idolatrous practices.
Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God.


11 Deuteronomy 16:22 - Not to erect an image which people assemble to honor.
Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; which the LORD thy God hateth.

 

[BradC]

The Law says be blessed in the blessings, of the Law. Thats one thing i see it saying to me, notice i said thats what it says to me, if it says something different to someone else, who am i to tell them what something says to them.

What about (Eph 1:3) for the NT believer in Christ? The blessings that we are in Christ through the Spirit and from every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. You want to take the OT laws and make them up to date so that believers have to come under those laws to obey them or they will not be blessed. Your motive is to have all believers come under the law and the blessings that you ascribe to the law. Our blessings under grace (not the law) are all in Christ and they are all by faith.

 

[chubbena]

Just because one reads a letter from Paul to the Ephesians does not make him Ephesian, or chosen, or Christian.
The same goes with reading any promises in NT, and OT for that matter.
Just because Paul wrote Ephesians 1:3 does not nullify the Word of God spoken through and recorded by Moses and the prophets.
Did he have to write "the law is spiritual, righteous and holy" after each verse in every letter?

 

[Elin]

Jesus said the laws are not abolished, but completed.

But after Jesus' death, the NT revelation he gave personally to Paul states
that the law is now abolished (Eph 2:14-15).

It is now fulfilled (Ro 13: 8, 9, 10) in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40).

 

[JaumeJ]

I have mistaken you for someone else before. Sorry, you are interpreting Paul as giving a gospel other than that of Jesus Christ. He did not.

In fact Paul declares anyone trying to deliver a gospel other than that of Jesus Christ, not that there is one, may he be accursed.

In Christ's teaching of His gospel, for which He suffered and died to deliver to all sinners, He states He has not abolished the law, He has completed it.

If you are washed by the same Blood I am washed, That of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, you will come to understand this to be part of the gospel.

Paul has no new gospel. The revelation given to Paul was that Jesus Christ is Lord, the same we all have received by the Holy Spirit.

True, Paul was given instructions on where to go and when and many other details for the path given him personally, but, as Paul teaches, the only gospel is that of Jesus Christ.

But after Jesus' death, the NT revelation he gave personally to Paul states
that the law is now abolished (Eph 2:14-15).

It is now fulfilled (Ro 13: 8, 9, 10) in the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40).

 

[Elin]

Just because one reads a letter from Paul to the Ephesians does not make him Ephesian, or chosen, or Christian.
The same goes with reading any promises in NT, and OT for that matter.
Just because Paul wrote Ephesians 1:3 does not nullify the Word of God spoken through and recorded by Moses and the prophets.
Did he have to write "the law is spiritual, righteous and holy" after each verse in every letter?

Straw man.

No one questions the nature of the law, and yet it condemns everyone to eternal death
because they cannot keep it to righteousness.

God had to give us his gift of righteousness (Ro 5:17, 1:17), or we would never be righteous.