What does the Law REALLY say?

[BradC]

Sin is not imputed where there is no law and God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their sins unto them. The imputation of sin was made and put on the body of Christ and laid to his account on the tree (cross) and that is where it was crucified. There is no need for the law to impute sin any longer, for ALL sin was imputed to Christ. We have been discharged from the law. That is the good news of the gospel in case some of you have missed that. God has replaced the law with the Spirit of grace and truth to convict man's heart of sin. The law is not needed for that for the Spirit is much more capable to convict the heart of sin then anything the law could do.

The purpose of the law has been exceeded by the Spirit and the glory of the law by the ministration and glory of the Spirit. The glory of the law represents the strength of sin, death and condemnation. The glory of the ministration of the Spirit represents life and righteousness that exceeds in glory. This glory has made the glory of the law to vanish away by the fact that it excels in glory. The law is no longer needed for we have the law of the Spirit of live setting us free from the law of sin and death that resides in our members. That is what the scriptures teach and not some convoluted understanding that mixes the law with the Spirit of grace. Jesus did this on the cross and set man free from the law in every respect. The law of the Spirit of life and the grace of God teaches us how to live holy and righteously in this present evil world. We are delivered from the law period.

 

[chubbena]

Sin is not imputed where there is no law and God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their sins unto them. The imputation of sin was made and put on the body of Christ and laid to his account on the tree (cross) and that is where it was crucified. There is no need for the law to impute sin any longer, for ALL sin was imputed to Christ. We have been discharged from the law. That is the good news of the gospel in case some of you have missed that. God has replaced the law with the Spirit of grace and truth to convict man's heart of sin. The law is not needed for that for the Spirit is much more capable to convict the heart of sin then anything the law could do.

The purpose of the law has been exceeded by the Spirit and the glory of the law by the ministration and glory of the Spirit. The glory of the law represents the strength of sin, death and condemnation. The glory of the ministration of the Spirit represents life and righteousness that exceeds in glory. This glory has made the glory of the law to vanish away by the fact that it excels in glory. The law is no longer needed for we have the law of the Spirit of live setting us free from the law of sin and death that resides in our members. That is what the scriptures teach and not some convoluted understanding that mixes the law with the Spirit of grace. Jesus did this on the cross and set man free from the law in every respect. The law of the Spirit of life and the grace of God teaches us how to live holy and righteously in this present evil world. We are delivered from the law period.

What does the Bible really say?

 

[cfultz3]

I did a word search on www.blueletterbible.org for "laws" and found many bible verses used the word "laws" including in the NT Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.
and Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

So what gives?

It would seem that if God took the time to write the Law upon our hearts, then we, as Christians, should not try to erase them simply because they have also been written down on paper, although they came from the LORD's very own mouth.

It would do us all good if we would take the time to consider what is said in the New Covenant concerning those who are lawless, especially where it says they will be outside the New Jerusalem.

 

[BradC]

What does the Bible really say?

The Bible says, 'Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin'. Where there is no law sin can not be imputed. You can't get around it. God will not impute sin for the law has been fulfilled, sin has been imputed and judged on the cross, and the law has been excelled by the ministration and glory of the Spirit.

 

[cfultz3]

The Bible says, 'Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin'. Where there is no law sin can not be imputed. You can't get around it. God will not impute sin for the law has been fulfilled, sin has been imputed and judged on the cross, and the law has been excelled by the ministration and glory of the Spirit.

My Brother,

It also says that a brother can sin. Still yet, it also says that sin is a transgression of the Law. Still furthermore, it says that if we respect a person we have sinned and are reproved under the Law as transgressors.

It is said that the Law is spiritual and if we worship God spiritually now, should we not also look upon that Law which He Himself wrote upon our hearts?

Consider how we know God's will for us:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[chubbena]

The Bible says, 'Blessed is the man whom the Lord will not impute sin'. Where there is no law sin can not be imputed. You can't get around it. God will not impute sin for the law has been fulfilled, sin has been imputed and judged on the cross, and the law has been excelled by the ministration and glory of the Spirit.

Only when one equates "the law has been fulfilled" with "there is no law". It's not hard to understand that if one is convicted of running a red light the only way to fulfill the law is to pay the fine or fight the charge by a lawyer, not by removing the traffic light.
Now if one reads where Paul quoted the verse from and continues reading one shall see "Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, 'I will confess my transgressions to the Lord.' And you forgave the guilt of my sin." It's about confession and forgiveness and why the forgiveness? Because the law coming from the mouth of God has become obsolete?
The same psalmist also wrote psalm 119 and the one who quoted from the psalmist also wrote "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law."

One can't get around this if he reads the whole letter to the Romans and understands why Paul quoted Psalm 32.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

I am not opposed to law. No, I actually embrace law. The Bible has much to say about what the New Testament calls "nomos". However in the Hebrew it is always called "Torah". Torah, I believe refers to the entire Bible.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

At the time of the writing of Timothy, I don't believe the "New Testament" had been widely circulated as "scriptures" yet. What I find amazing about the so-called "Old Testament" is that it was referred to as "Scriptures".

I embrace the Torah as Instruction, Correction, Direction, and Protection from a loving heavenly Father. Yeshua also embraced the Torah and expounded upon it to bring greater clarity (after the Pharisees had meddled with it so much the people were in confusion.)

There is no confusion in God's Kingdom. His Kingdom has a ruler and rules and is filled with His Holy Ones (Set Apart Ones.).

Dan_7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan_7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What is the one "LAW" that signifies you are Set Apart to Yahwey?

Do you believe that God's Son did away with the one "LAW" that signifies who are Set Apart for His Kingdom?

Satan, is clever. Through the so-called Christian Church (Holy Roman Empire) it was illegal to observe rest on God's Sabbath. When that didn't work out and the Sabbath Keepers were not illeminated, Satan went into the church to destroy the one sign that identifies God's Set Apart ones. Yep! The reformation and the protestants who accepted the change from Sabbath to Sunday, which the Catholic church takes great pride in stating they had the power to change it and that this, IMO, is the mark of the Holy Roman Empire (a beast). And that beast is a whore, who has many daughters following in her footsteps.

God called the House of Israel a whore. He divorced the House of Israel for her whoring. God said that He would make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. There is no "New Covenant" for modern day traditional Christian churches. The New Covenant is only for Israel. If you are a gentile, then you must join Israel if you want to be in God's Kingdom.

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The "LAW" is God calling us to prove who we serve. Without Yeshua, the "LAW" is in vain, so grace must be imputed and then those who desire to be in His Kingdom, will prove themselves by what fruit they produce.

We do have a say so in our future destiny. Do you want to be saved and have no future in His Kingdom? That is WHAT THE LAW REALLY SAYS. It is for the saved who bear fruit.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo_31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

What does Christ have to do with the commonwealth of Israel? He brings the covenants (plural) of promise? Yep! Jesus came to restore the House of Israel and the HOuse of Judah.

Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer_31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The above verse 13 is where many believe that the old testament has been "done away with". What is decaying and waxing old and ready to vanish away is the old heaven and earth, not the Torah.

Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Isa 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.



And again, a Kingdom has a ruler (who will be Yeshua) and a kingdom has rules (called Torah) and a kingdom has people.

Dan_7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan_7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Are you a saint of the most High? Prove it!! Just because you say you are saved by grace and have no regard for God's rules because Satan has deceived the masses in believing that Jesus fulfilled the law, therefore there is no law any more and if you walk obediently then you are under the law instead of under the curse of the law. Satan is a liar and if you believe that the law was done away then you have bought Satan's best lie.

 

[BradC]

My Brother,

It also says that a brother can sin. Still yet, it also says that sin is a transgression of the Law. Still furthermore, it says that if we respect a person we have sinned and are reproved under the Law as transgressors.

It is said that the Law is spiritual and if we worship God spiritually now, should we not also look upon that Law which He Himself wrote upon our hearts?

Consider how we know God's will for us:

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Is it the law that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as we love ourselves? Do we become a transgressor if we do not love the Lord in this manner? Is not the love of God a reciprocated love where we love Him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19)? How can we love without the Spirit shedding that love abroad in our hearts (Rom 5:5)? Obedience to the law does not fill us with the love of God? Keeping the Sabbath does not fill us with the love of God, yet we are commanded to love God and our neighbor. It is the Spirit that fills us with the love of God and we are to be continually filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18 - present passive imperative).

There is no law or combination of laws that if we keep that will fill us with the nature of the love of God. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He did not do that according to the law but according to love, mercy and grace. We are to know the love of God through faith that works by love and not through keeping the law (Gal 5:6). If we sin the Holy Spirits takes care of that through conviction even in those areas that the law could never touch because it lacks and is weak (Rom 8:2,3). This is why Jesus said in (Matt 5:25-28)...

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never went deep enough to reveal the intent of the heart when a man looked upon a woman to lust after her, that it was adultery already committed in the heart. The adversary is the Spirit that we are to agree with quickly through the conviction we receive in our heart, while we are in the way with him, less the following happen unto us. Jesus made this plain to the impotent man in (John 5) when, after healing him, he sought him out at the temple and gave him a message in (v.15).

The law is good and holy but we do not live by the law we live by the Spirit who is greater and far exceeds the law in glory, in holiness and with conviction in the heart of man. The law is made only for the natural man of the flesh, but the Spirit is given to the spiritual man who walks and is led of the Spirit.

1 Cor 2:11-16

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. (not the law of God)

 

[JaumeJ]

Torah has come to be synonomous with what people call the "Law of Moses," however it does mean teaching in general, thus the entire Word is Torah to all who are found faithful.

I am not opposed to law. No, I actually embrace law. The Bible has much to say about what the New Testament calls "nomos". However in the Hebrew it is always called "Torah". Torah, I believe refers to the entire Bible.

2Ti_3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

At the time of the writing of Timothy, I don't believe the "New Testament" had been widely circulated as "scriptures" yet. What I find amazing about the so-called "Old Testament" is that it was referred to as "Scriptures".

I embrace the Torah as Instruction, Correction, Direction, and Protection from a loving heavenly Father. Yeshua also embraced the Torah and expounded upon it to bring greater clarity (after the Pharisees had meddled with it so much the people were in confusion.)

There is no confusion in God's Kingdom. His Kingdom has a ruler and rules and is filled with His Holy Ones (Set Apart Ones.).

Dan_7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan_7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What is the one "LAW" that signifies you are Set Apart to Yahwey?

Do you believe that God's Son did away with the one "LAW" that signifies who are Set Apart for His Kingdom?

Satan, is clever. Through the so-called Christian Church (Holy Roman Empire) it was illegal to observe rest on God's Sabbath. When that didn't work out and the Sabbath Keepers were not illeminated, Satan went into the church to destroy the one sign that identifies God's Set Apart ones. Yep! The reformation and the protestants who accepted the change from Sabbath to Sunday, which the Catholic church takes great pride in stating they had the power to change it and that this, IMO, is the mark of the Holy Roman Empire (a beast). And that beast is a whore, who has many daughters following in her footsteps.

God called the House of Israel a whore. He divorced the House of Israel for her whoring. God said that He would make a new covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. There is no "New Covenant" for modern day traditional Christian churches. The New Covenant is only for Israel. If you are a gentile, then you must join Israel if you want to be in God's Kingdom.

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

The "LAW" is God calling us to prove who we serve. Without Yeshua, the "LAW" is in vain, so grace must be imputed and then those who desire to be in His Kingdom, will prove themselves by what fruit they produce.

We do have a say so in our future destiny. Do you want to be saved and have no future in His Kingdom? That is WHAT THE LAW REALLY SAYS. It is for the saved who bear fruit.

Exo_31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
Exo_31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Eph_2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

What does Christ have to do with the commonwealth of Israel? He brings the covenants (plural) of promise? Yep! Jesus came to restore the House of Israel and the HOuse of Judah.

Jer_31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer_31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The above verse 13 is where many believe that the old testament has been "done away with". What is decaying and waxing old and ready to vanish away is the old heaven and earth, not the Torah.

Isa 51:6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Isa 51:8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.



And again, a Kingdom has a ruler (who will be Yeshua) and a kingdom has rules (called Torah) and a kingdom has people.

Dan_7:18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
Dan_7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
Dan_7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Are you a saint of the most High? Prove it!! Just because you say you are saved by grace and have no regard for God's rules because Satan has deceived the masses in believing that Jesus fulfilled the law, therefore there is no law any more and if you walk obediently then you are under the law instead of under the curse of the law. Satan is a liar and if you believe that the law was done away then you have bought Satan's best lie.

 

[cfultz3]

Is it the law that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as we love ourselves? Do we become a transgressor if we do not love the Lord in this manner? Is not the love of God a reciprocated love where we love Him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19)? How can we love without the Spirit shedding that love abroad in our hearts (Rom 5:5)? Obedience to the law does not fill us with the love of God? Keeping the Sabbath does not fill us with the love of God, yet we are commanded to love God and our neighbor. It is the Spirit that fills us with the love of God and we are to be continually filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18 - present passive imperative).

There is no law or combination of laws that if we keep that will fill us with the nature of the love of God. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He did not do that according to the law but according to love, mercy and grace. We are to know the love of God through faith that works by love and not through keeping the law (Gal 5:6). If we sin the Holy Spirits takes care of that through conviction even in those areas that the law could never touch because it lacks and is weak (Rom 8:2,3). This is why Jesus said in (Matt 5:25-28)...

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never went deep enough to reveal the intent of the heart when a man looked upon a woman to lust after her, that it was adultery already committed in the heart. The adversary is the Spirit that we are to agree with quickly through the conviction we receive in our heart, while we are in the way with him, less the following happen unto us. Jesus made this plain to the impotent man in (John 5) when, after healing him, he sought him out at the temple and gave him a message in (v.15).

The law is good and holy but we do not live by the law we live by the Spirit who is greater and far exceeds the law in glory, in holiness and with conviction in the heart of man. The law is made only for the natural man of the flesh, but the Spirit is given to the spiritual man who walks and is led of the Spirit.

1 Cor 2:11-16

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. (not the law of God)

Not one thing did I disagree with here and thank you for that wisdom about the 'Adversary'. So please, understand what I am saying here:

So then, by love do we walk God's righteous path and when we do not, we are reproofed by the Spirit using the Law, which is written upon our hearts, to convict us as transgressors to be imprisoned if we do not come in line with Him.

And they who are in line with the Spirit will not be convicted by the Law, but are in a correct state of love, and thus, no need for a judgement based on God's Will we know as God's Law.

See, even a Christian has a need to follow God's righteous path which has already been set up from eternity and that we do through love, even as God so loved the world that He did act through love to do His Will of sending His Son.

 

[chubbena]

Is it the law that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as we love ourselves? Do we become a transgressor if we do not love the Lord in this manner?

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?" Jesus replied, "'Love the Lord with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Is not the love of God a reciprocated love where we love Him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19)? How can we love without the Spirit shedding that love abroad in our hearts (Rom 5:5)? Obedience to the law does not fill us with the love of God? Keeping the Sabbath does not fill us with the love of God, yet we are commanded to love God and our neighbor. It is the Spirit that fills us with the love of God and we are to be continually filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18 - present passive imperative).

The love of God would not lead us to disobedience to the law. Obedience to the law does not imply one is without the Spirit. On the contrary, the Israel nation which served as an example for Christians, rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit by disobedience to the law.

There is no law or combination of laws that if we keep that will fill us with the nature of the love of God.

Does anyone say or remotely imply that?

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He did not do that according to the law but according to love, mercy and grace.

In the beginning was the Word. The Word spoke through Moses that man does not life by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God and the Word spoke again against the tempter. The Word said "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life." It was unbelief in the Word of God that the people spoke against God and against Moses. It is believing in the Word of God that leads to eternal life. Every word coming from the mouth of God.

We are to know the love of God through faith that works by love and not through keeping the law (Gal 5:6).

Does anyone say salvation is through keeping the law here?

If we sin the Holy Spirits takes care of that through conviction even in those areas that the law could never touch because it lacks and is weak (Rom 8:2,3).

The scripture said the law was weakened by the sinful nature of man. It's way different from saying the law is weak.

This is why Jesus said in (Matt 5:25-28)...

25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

The law never went deep enough to reveal the intent of the heart when a man looked upon a woman to lust after her, that it was adultery already committed in the heart. The adversary is the Spirit that we are to agree with quickly through the conviction we receive in our heart, while we are in the way with him, less the following happen unto us. Jesus made this plain to the impotent man in (John 5) when, after healing him, he sought him out at the temple and gave him a message in (v.15).

It was man who didn't go deep enough to understand the intention of the law and thus the Word of God came in the flesh and explained in detail. He said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

The law is good and holy but we do not live by the law we live by the Spirit who is greater and far exceeds the law in glory, in holiness and with conviction in the heart of man. The law is made only for the natural man of the flesh, but the Spirit is given to the spiritual man who walks and is led of the Spirit.

Would one live by the Spirit speak against the Law spoken through Moses by the Word of God?

1 Cor 2:11-16

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. (not the law of God)

But we have the mind of the Word of God but not the law of God? That's very contradictive.

 

[chubbena]

Not one thing did I disagree with here and thank you for that wisdom about the 'Adversary'. So please, understand what I am saying here:

So then, by love do we walk God's righteous path and when we do not, we are reproofed by the Spirit using the Law, which is written upon our hearts, to convict us as transgressors to be imprisoned if we do not come in line with Him.

And they who are in line with the Spirit will not be convicted by the Law, but are in a correct state of love, and thus, no need for a judgement based on God's Will we know as God's Law.

See, even a Christian has a need to follow God's righteous path which has already been set up from eternity and that we do through love, even as God so loved the world that He did act through love to do His Will of sending His Son.

Did the verses quoted teach the adversary is the Spirit that we are to agree with or the brother who has something against us?

 

[Elin]

if you walk obediently then you are under the law instead of under the curse of the law.

Paul disagrees with you in 1Co 9:20-21.

 

[cfultz3]

Did the verses quoted teach the adversary is the Spirit that we are to agree with or the brother who has something against us?

You are correct, but I also understood his example of us concurring with the Spirit or else......Thanks for the clarity.

 

[cfultz3]

"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?" Jesus replied, "'Love the Lord with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

The love of God would not lead us to disobedience to the law. Obedience to the law does not imply one is without the Spirit. On the contrary, the Israel nation which served as an example for Christians, rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit by disobedience to the law.

Does anyone say or remotely imply that?

In the beginning was the Word. The Word spoke through Moses that man does not life by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God and the Word spoke again against the tempter. The Word said "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life." It was unbelief in the Word of God that the people spoke against God and against Moses. It is believing in the Word of God that leads to eternal life. Every word coming from the mouth of God.

Does anyone say salvation is through keeping the law here?

The scripture said the law was weakened by the sinful nature of man. It's way different from saying the law is weak.
It was man who didn't go deep enough to understand the intention of the law and thus the Word of God came in the flesh and explained in detail. He said "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Would one live by the Spirit speak against the Law spoken through Moses by the Word of God?

But we have the mind of the Word of God but not the law of God? That's very contradictive.

Worth a second read........

P.S. After having read your reply here, I stand corrected in having said in my post to Brad, 'Not one thing did I disagree with here' and would like to rescind that statement.

 

[cfultz3]

Brad,

I have given a 4th reading and this is my reply and I deeply apologize to all for the longevity, but I had to get it out....

Is it the law that we are to love the Lord with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as we love ourselves?

Instead, it says that the whole Law hangs from these two grandest Laws. Meaning, if you do these two, you will inadvertently do the rest. Love for God would cause one not to have another god and by which, you have kept that commandment. Love for another would cause one not to steal from him and by which, you have kept that commandment. It is by love that we do walk pleasingly before God, because Love fulfills the Law. Indeed, Jesus showed us how to walk pleasingly before God through love and told us that it is no longer through the flesh and what it can accomplish.

Do we become a transgressor if we do not love the Lord in this manner?

Yes, we do become a transgressor if we do not love the Lord or others in the manner our Lord Christ told us. If we do not love God in this manner, then we walk contrary to what He has said concerning what is love towards Him: have no other god. Does not the Law written upon our hearts tell us the same when we are convicted by the Spirit?

Is not the love of God a reciprocated love where we love Him because he first loved us (1 John 4:19)?

Yes, and if we love Him we would desire to walk pleasingly before Him. Has He not told us what is pleasing and not pleasing before Him? How can we Christians tell God that since He wrote concerning His essence (of those things which do and do not please Him) in the Old Testament that we are no longer obliged to walk in a manner which is in harmony to what He has said concerning Himself? Shall we tell Him that He erred in having written that Law expressing that essence we define as love?

How can we love without the Spirit shedding that love abroad in our hearts (Rom 5:5)?

May I suggest to you a study of the words 'phileo (G5368 (sensational love))' and 'agape (G25 (love from the heart/mind))' and you will see that it says that 'God is Agape' and that a human, even apart from God, can not only phileo, but also agape one another. And we will also see that in Romans 5:5, it is God's love which He has for us that is shed abroad in us when He introduced His love for us in Romans 5:8, just as nothing can separate us from Christ's love in Romans 8:35 or God's Love which is in Him, our Lord Romans 8:39. But, yes! We can agape apart from God.

Obedience to the law does not fill us with the love of God?

It is God who fills us with His Love for us. And that Love He has given, that is what we reciprocate back to Him and others. Not the love we naturally have, but the love only His children possess, His love.

Keeping the Sabbath does not fill us with the love of God, yet we are commanded to love God and our neighbor. It is the Spirit that fills us with the love of God and we are to be continually filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18 - present passive imperative).

And during those times when we are not in alignment to the Will the Spirit speaks to us, then we are not in that state of love. And if not in that state of love, then we are walking contrary to God's Will and are thus convicted as transgressors of God's Law.

Before Ephesians 5:18 it is said:

Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly (exactly, accurately, diligently), not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.​

If we are to walk accurately, then what is it that tells us what the Lord's will is if not that which He Himself has written upon our hearts? He has told us His Will, so let us walk accordingly.

There is no law or combination of laws that if we keep that will fill us with the nature of the love of God.

Law does not give us love. But, God has filled us with His Love. And it is said that that Love is what fulfills the Law. If you love someone, would you do that which they consider offensive to them? If God has said it is offensive to Him for one to do harm (evil), then would one not go and seek what He has said to be offensive to Him so that that one would not cause harm to God? Of course one would. That one would not find reason to walk offensively, but pleasingly if they have God's love in them.

God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He did not do that according to the law but according to love, mercy and grace. We are to know the love of God through faith that works by love and not through keeping the law (Gal 5:6).

Know this also, all which the Law says hangs upon Love. If one loves, then one is fulfilling the Law. This is not the same as being justified by Law (Galatians 5:4), it is loving God, so as to not walk offensively before Him. Truly, to know God is to love God and to love God one would walk the path He has set, the same path our Shepherd LEADS on. Nothing good can be thought when someone says, 'the black sheep of the family'. How then can it work with us if we do evil this, because love will do no evil (harm)?

If we sin the Holy Spirits takes care of that through conviction even in those areas that the law could never touch because it lacks and is weak (Rom 8:2,3).

Does it say that or does it say that the Law was weak BECAUSE of flesh. Yet, if we die to the flesh, we become alive to the Spirit, the Same spirit Who leads on the path which is according to God's eternal Will.

This is why Jesus said in (Matt 5:25-28)...

I understand your example here

The law is good and holy but we do not live by the law we live by the Spirit who is greater and far exceeds the law in glory, in holiness and with conviction in the heart of man. The law is made only for the natural man of the flesh, but the Spirit is given to the spiritual man who walks and is led of the Spirit.

Yet, none of us can deny that God has written His Law upon our hearts. By what does the Spirit convict? If we are not in agreement to what the Spirit says is God's Will, then are we not offenders of that Will, transgressors, if you will? Indeed, God's will has not changed, only the method (fleshly to spiritual).

1 Cor 2:11-16
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ. (not the law of God)

Does it not also say in Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the Law is fulfilled in us when we ARE WALKING (Present Active Participle) according to the Spirit? What happens then if we ARE WALKING according to the flesh? Is the righteousness of the Law then fulfilled? So then, let us fulfill the righteousness of the Law by walking according to the Spirit.

 

[KohenMatt]

Sacrifices - Part 4 of 6

125 Exodus 12:9 - Not to eat the Pesach (Passover) offering boiled or raw.
Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.


126 Exodus 12:45 - Not to allow an alien resident to eat Pesach (Passover)offering.
A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.


127 Exodus 12:48 - An uncircumcised person may not eat the Pesach (Passover)offering.
And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.


128 Exodus 12:43 - Not to allow an stranger to eat the Pesach (Passover) offering.
And the LORD said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover: There shall no stranger eat thereof:


129 Leviticus 12:4 - Tameh (ritually unclean) person may not eat holy things.
And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.


130 Leviticus 7:19 - Eat not meat of consecrated things that have become unclean.
And the flesh that toucheth any unclean thing shall not be eaten; it shall be burnt with fire: and as for the flesh, all that be clean shall eat thereof.


131 Leviticus 19:6,7 - Not to eat sacrificial meat beyond the second day.
It shall be eaten the same day ye offer it, and on the morrow: and if ought remain until the third day, it shall be burnt in the fire. And if it be eaten at all on the third day, it is abominable; it shall not be accepted.


132 Leviticus 7:18 - Eat not sacrificial meat on third day.
And if any of the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings be eaten at all on the third day, it shall not be accepted, neither shall it be imputed unto him that offereth it: it shall be an abomination, and the soul that eateth of it shall bear his iniquity.


133 Leviticus 22:10 - A stranger or non-Cohen may not eat of holy thing.
There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.


134 Leviticus 22:10 – A Cohen 's (Priest’s) sojourner or hired worker may not eat holy thing.
There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.


135 Leviticus 22:10 - An uncircumcised person may not eat holy thing.
There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.


136 Leviticus 22:4 - A Tameh (ritually unclean) Cohen may not eat terumah (holy things).
What man soever of the seed of Aaron is a leper, or hath a running issue; he shall not eat of the holy things, until he be clean. And whoso toucheth any thing that is unclean by the dead, or a man whose seed goeth from him;


137 Leviticus 22:12 - A Bat-Cohen (priest’s daughter) if married to non-Cohen not to eat holy food.
If the priest's daughter also be married unto a stranger, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things.

 

[JesusIsAll]

What does the Bible really say?

Again, thanks be to God, the Lord Jesus, the end of the matter and the whole truth of Christianity in this matter is compact, even very economical of server secondary storage space,

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Can we mix God's Word with His Son's word in the New covenant or has God's words somehow changed when He said He doesn't? The wine is what is contained in the wineskins. Right? The words are what's contained in the covenant of the old testament and the new. How are we gonna deal with that? Do we throw away what we cannot understand? (Rhetorically speaking) Does not the Spiritual applications of God's word trump the carnal application of the man? It's what the covenant contains that matters not the container.

Right,GOD doesn't change,but under the law,it was designed for you to realize you couldn't be perfected on the inside and JESUS was the only one that could fulfill the law because GOD will only accept inward perfection which is in truth.

So once again its either all you in the law or its grace,and we have access to this grace that JESUS provided through faith.

 

[Elin]

Again, thanks be to God, the Lord Jesus, the end of the matter and the whole truth of Christianity in this matter is compact, even very economical of server secondary storage space,

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

And. . ."The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love." (Gal 5:6)