What does the Law REALLY say?

[KohenMatt]

Sacrifices/Offerings and the Feast Days – Part 3 of a large group of commands

67 Leviticus 2:1 - On the Meal-Offering.
And when any will offer a meat offering unto the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:


68 Leviticus 4:13 - On offerings for a Court (Sanhedrin) that has erred.
And if the whole congregation of Israel sin through ignorance, and the thing be hid from the eyes of the assembly, and they have done somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which should not be done, and are guilty;


69 Leviticus 4:27 - Fixed Sin-Offering, by one unknowingly breaking a commandment.
And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth somewhat against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and be guilty;


70 Leviticus 5:17 - Suspensive Guilt-Offering if doubt of breaking a commandment.
And if a soul sin, and commit any of these things which are forbidden to be done by the commandments of the Lord; though he wist it not, yet is he guilty, and shall bear his iniquity.


71 Leviticus 5:15 - Unconditional Guilt-Offering, for stealing, etc.
If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the Lord; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the Lord a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:


72 Leviticus 5:11 - Offering higher or lower value, according to ones means.
But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.


73 Numbers 5:6-7 - To confess one's sins before God and repent from them.
Speak unto the children of Israel, When a man or woman shall commit any sin that men commit, to do a trespass against the Lord, and that person be guilty; Then they shall confess their sin which they have done: and he shall recompense his trespass with the principal thereof, and add unto it the fifth part thereof, and give it unto him against whom he hath trespassed.


74 Leviticus 15:13 - On offering brought by a zav (man with a discharge).
And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean.


75 Leviticus 15:28 - Offering brought by a zavah (woman with a discharge).
But if she be cleansed of her issue, then she shall number to herself seven days, and after that she shall be clean.


76 Leviticus 12:6 - On offering brought by a woman after childbirth.
And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:


77 Leviticus 14:10 - On offering brought by a leper after being cleansed.
And on the eighth day he shall take two he lambs without blemish, and one ewe lamb of the first year without blemish, and three tenth deals of fine flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and one log of

 

[Grandpa]

When we come to Jesus and He gives us rest, does He complete all of those tasks of the law, as our High Priest and Mediator, in the real temple of God?

What is our responsibility to the law in the old covenant, now, after coming to the Lord Jesus?

Hebrews 8:1-6
[SUP]1[/SUP]Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What does the Law REALLY say?

I waited this whole time for you to tell what the Law REALLY says...

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

The Lord Jesus, our High Priest and King, tells us what it says in Matthew 5. If you REALLY want to know...

 

[KohenMatt]

When we come to Jesus and He gives us rest, does He complete all of those tasks of the law, as our High Priest and Mediator, in the real temple of God?

What is our responsibility to the law in the old covenant, now, after coming to the Lord Jesus?

Hebrews 8:1-6
[SUP]1[/SUP]Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

What does the Law REALLY say?

I waited this whole time for you to tell what the Law REALLY says...

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

The Lord Jesus, our High Priest and King, tells us what it says in Matthew 5. If you REALLY want to know...

Quoting Galatians or even Matthew isn't quoting what the Law actually says.

I know exactly what Matthew 5 says (to follow the Law), and I know who my High Priest is.

But what I'm getting at here is that no one really cares to actually quote the Law itself and what it requires and promises.

 

[Grandpa]

Quoting Galatians or even Matthew isn't quoting what the Law actually says.

I know exactly what Matthew 5 says (to follow the Law), and I know who my High Priest is.

But what I'm getting at here is that no one really cares to actually quote the Law itself and what it requires and promises.

What's the point of quoting the Law itself and what it requires and promises to Christians?

 

[Grandpa]

Unless you are actively showing how it is our tutor to bring us to Christ?

 

[KohenMatt]

What's the point of quoting the Law itself and what it requires and promises to Christians?

You need to know what the Law actually says before you can discredit it.

You need to know what the Law actually says to understand what Paul is saying about it.

I'm beginning to wonder if people have ever read the Law or have any idea what it says.

 

[Elin]

One odd point. People continually remind others that the law is our tutor or in other translations, guardian, until Yeshua. I would like to know just
how much of the law these folks know of before claiming to have been tutored before coming to the grace of Yeshua.

The law was a tutor for those to whom it was given.
It was not given to the Gentiles.
It had not served as their tutor at the time Christ.

The NT states that the law was given as a tutor,
not that the Gentiles were tutored by it.

Yes, the law is spiritual, but

how is it those who are spirit filled do not understand the law without the curse, thanks to Yeshua, is good and holy.

There is no law of Moses without the curse (Gal 3:10).

The curse on disobedience of the law is an inseparable part of the law.
You cannot be under one without the other.

However, there is no curse attached to the law of Christ
(Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2).

Yes, people are very quick to say they obey the law of faith and all law in the spirit

without having ever learned anything of the law.

The NT is covered over with the commands of Christ given through its writers.
These are the laws Christians are to obey, including Ro 13:8-10.

Had they bothered to know the laws, they would be blessed with the prophecy and wisdom of the law, and they would see it not only points to Yeshua, it leads all to Yeshua.

It is suspicious when people condemn the law who claim to have been tutored by it,

Gentiles have not been tutored by the law.

That is your notion, not a Biblical notion.

for had they been tutored by it, it would not cause such fear once they come to the feet of our Lord on the cross. He had company on the cross, that being the curse of the law.

They haven't been, that is your misconstrument of what Paul states.

Their faith is the result of their rebirth, not the result of tutoring by the law.

 

[psychomom]

I know exactly what Matthew 5 says (to follow the Law), and I know who my High Priest is.

But what I'm getting at here is that no one really cares to actually quote the Law itself and what it requires and promises.

Matt...if you think the sermon on the mount is written prescriptively as a 'to do' list...well, maybe you know exactly what it says, but don't exactly know what it says?

and Matt...the the promises you speak of...are you sure you don't mean the Mosaic covenant promises, rather than the Law?
because God's Law requires nothing less than perfect obedience and promises death if we don't comply.
please don't think i'm saying the Law is bad! that would, indeed, be scandalous.
no one is saved apart from the Law, and God will still use it in the life of a believer when we run off the rails, so to speak.
(aka, the conviction of the Holy Spirit )

but what's so beautifully, completely scandalous is the grace of God as revealed in the Gospel of His Son.
i could look at that all day.

 

[BradC]

To imply your brother is not doing what he has been given to spread the Word is not prodding and encouragement, in writing it is libelous, spoken it is slander. Please keep your comments away from personal guesses as to how your brethren are given to serve the Lord. He serves also who waits.

We are all, as disciples of Yeshua, commanded to preach the gospel in all the world to every creature, in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the world. Do you deny that? We are all given this command to preach and be witnesses unto Christ. We are all commanded to make disciples and to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I never implied that you were not obeying this command to preach the gospel but only asking if you were and to make the point that to do so would be just as important as keeping the Sabbath or any part of the law. After all, our Lord came to seek and save that which was lost. He did not come for the righteous but for sinners, and we are to go into the highways and hedges and compel them with the mystery of the gospel, Jesus Christ and Him crucified, to come in so that the Father's house might be full. Read (Luke 14) if you do not believe me. God wants a full house not just a few stragglers that are always trying to make it on their own. Jesus preached to the multitudes along with His disciples and also did the one on one like with the woman taken in adultery and the woman at the well along with the man who had the infirmity for (38) years.

 

[Elin]

Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Does the "man" here refers to the Jews only?
Does "every word" here not include the law?
Is "the mouth of God" not the Word of God?

Every word includes Heb 7:11-12, 18-19, 8:3,
where the law has been set aside because it was weak and useless to obtain righteousness (Heb 7:18-19).

We are under a new law, the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2),
where righteousness (justification, right standing with God, guiltless) is by faith, not by law-keeping.

Righteousness (holiness, sanctification) after justification is through obedience to Christ's commands,
but that has nothing to do with receiving justification, which is only through faith.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no law of Moses without the curse, but with Yeshua there is law without the curse. You anwered yourself here,.

You quoted my opening with people are always using the teaching that the law was a tutor while knowing nothing of the law.

Christ teaches us that all of the law is fulfilled in love, the law of love. This does not take away from the value of the law without the curse.

Jesus Christ tells us the law stands as it is unless heaven and earth pass away, for it is easier for that to occur than the law to be abolished.

In Revelations it is repeated that we are blessed in keeping the commandments of God

Rev 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Jesus never taught that there are any commandments or laws that are abolished, however by His own example we know

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15
For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

1. By His self sacrifice, laws related are no longer in function.
2. By His teaching that nothing by entering the body corrupts the body rather it is what may proceed from the heart that corrupts the body, murder, lying, stealing, all forms of coveting. In so teaching He makes all foods clean as long as they are received with thanksgiving.
3. Whenever the option of mercy may be implemented, it should be, thus the punishment and death cited in the law for various infringements may be replaced by believers with mercy, rendering that, the curse of the law, null and void, on the cross with our Lord. He demonstrated this by sending the woman away in peace who was caught in the act of adultery.

You may stretch all of those new commandments to include destroying the law entirely, but that is a lie.

Are you going to teach people to keep an object found when the true owner is known? That is not within the parameters of love. Are you going to seek the death penalty for someone who murder your child? Follow the Father's own Example on that one. Do you teach coveting your neighbor's wife and property is good? What about planting two kinds of seed in the same field? Of course you probably do not understand any of this because you love. I know you love me a lot because you are always popping up to make some outrageous claim abut what I have to share with others.

I truly fear for others who believe they may teach against God's commandments, and I believe you should pay attention to all of the Word before editing it.

 

[KohenMatt]

Matt...if you think the sermon on the mount is written prescriptively as a 'to do' list...well, maybe you know exactly what it says, but don't exactly know what it says?

Oh absolutely not, it is MUCH more than just a list of rules, it is about a love relationship with God that extends far beyond actions and teaches on God's Spirit and our need of it.

and Matt...the the promises you speak of...are you sure you don't mean the Mosaic covenant promises, rather than the Law?

I mean both the Mosaic Covenant AND the Law (which is a part of that covenant).

because God's Law requires nothing less than perfect obedience and promises death if we don't comply.

And where in the Law does it say that it requires perfect obedience and death if it isn't done perfectly?
And what provision is there if man disobeyed parts of the Law?

please don't think i'm saying the Law is bad! that would, indeed, be scandalous.
no one is saved apart from the Law, and God will still use it in the life of a believer when we run off the rails, so to speak.
(aka, the conviction of the Holy Spirit )

I agree completely.

but what's so beautifully, completely scandalous is the grace of God as revealed in the Gospel of His Son.
i could look at that all day.

Again, I agree completely. But then again, I could say that about the Law as well as the rest of the Bible, because it's all one book and is all a part of God's heart and love story for us. And all of this culminates in the Gospel.

 

[Elin]

WHICH LAW?

the circumcision sacrifice law
OR
the ten commandments?


Gen lev deut says there are two laws
one inside the ark wich is forver
and one in a pocket outside the ark with sacrifices and circumcision

which law you talking about?


Then since the circumcision law is over

lets talk ten commandments


I LOVE YOU!

that is what the ten commandments really says
I love YOU

I love my parents, I love my neighbor, and I love God above my pastor.

those who say the law is done away
say they nailed loving others to the cross
craxy people. no way.

The law of Moses with its inseparable curse (Gal 3:10) is set aside (Heb 7:18-19)
with the old covenant which is obsolete (Heb 8:13),

and we are under a new covenant (Lk 22:20) and the new law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10;
1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2) which has no curse attached.

yesI love my God above any priest

yes I love my God and his word ABOVE any
traditions of the fathers

. . .we need the law
to show us when we HATE people
we dont know love or hate

Then the Holy Spirit is not dwelling in you.

some people teach
love your country and go kill people who dont believe like us

that is hate not love
read the law

thou shalt not kill
any reason

No, the law is "Thou shalt not murder."
Self-defense is lawful.

we need the ten commandments

. . .why in the world would anyone even conceive of doing away t=with the ten commandments?

Take it up with the NT writers who reveal the old covenant is obsolete (Heb 8:13)
the Mosaic law with its curse has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19), and
we are now under the law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39; 1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2),
which has no curse and which fulfills (accomplishes) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10).

 

[JaumeJ]

The only thing that makes the curse of the Law of Moses inseperable would be not knowing the grace of Jesus Christ's gift of His very own Blood for the non-imutation of sin for all who believe Him. This does not take away the prophecy, the wisdom, and the blessing of the law, only the curse of the Law. ¨Read the rest of the Word, and you will learn this.

 

[Elin]

God's purpose for the Law

Exodus 19:5-6

"Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel."

The above doesn't really state its purpose,
only the consequences of keeping it.

I go with the NT explanation, which clearly states that it was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ.

 

[KohenMatt]

The above doesn't really state its purpose,
only the consequences of keeping it.

I go with the NT explanation, which clearly states that it was given as a tutor to lead us to Christ.

OK then, what did God states that it's purpose was when He gave it?

 

[Elin]

I see the scripture that you gave and I wanted to ask you if any man was able to fulfill that scripture in Exodus 19:5-6;And if any man were not able to fulfill it,then I would wonder since we know that GOD is fair,why would he give them that scripture?

To teach him that very thing.

 

[KohenMatt]

To teach him that very thing.

What passage in the Law states that very thing?

 

[Elin]

Do not come back with having had the law as a tutor or guardian until Messiah, for had you had the law as such, you would know all the above, for the law points to Yeshua, Jesus.

Only the Jews had the law as a tutor until Messiah.

It was not given to the Gentiles.

Since the Messiah, Gentiles, as well as Jews, have the gospel and the law of Christ, not the law of Moses with its curse.

 

[psychomom]

Oh absolutely not, it is MUCH more than just a list of rules, it is about a love relationship with God that extends far beyond actions and teaches on God's Spirit and our need of it.

i'd suggest we have a thread on what Jesus is saying in Matt. 5-7, but i've only been around here a few years and it's prolly been done to death, right?
i think Jesus was showing just what the demands of the Law really are, lest anyone think he/she is actually pulling it off.
and in case they weren't quite getting it (or i wasn't)...i mean, Be perfect just like God is perfect.
yeah...how's that working out for us?

I mean both the Mosaic Covenant AND the Law (which is a part of that covenant).

And where in the Law does it say that it requires perfect obedience and death if it isn't done perfectly?
And what provision is there if man disobeyed parts of the Law?

yep, God graciously provided outs (if you will?) for disobedience. (not just this next part, but)
what i mean is that all the sacrifices were put in place to shadow the True Sacrifice,
but also to show the people the cost of sin.
death.
when i think of what the temple must have looked and sounded and smelled like--wow.
so although the grace of God allowed His own to have something else die, that's the true cost of
not being perfectly obedient to God's Law. death. don't you think that's what it shows?

Again, I agree completely. But then again, I could say that about the Law as well as the rest of the Bible, because it's all one book and is all a part of God's heart and love story for us. And all of this culminates in the Gospel.

agreed.
if you have the time, i'd love to have your thoughts on the thread Mephibosheth and the Gospel.

gotta run...daughter's baby shower this afternoon.

FIVE WEEKS TILL GRANDSON!!

(sorry...just a little excited )