What does the Law REALLY say?
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Moses made no such alteration. Deut 24 was not Moses' thoughts, he was speaking what God told him to speak. God wrote this Law not Moses. He allowed Israel certain things even though it was not what He wanted for them. Why did He allow it?
Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar 10:5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
The people were not given the Holy Spirit and did not have a circumcised heart. What does God say for today?
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Doesn't mean God approved, it means God did not pass the ultimate death penalty on them because they have not yet had their opportunity...
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
When was Israel blinded? It was an ongoing condition from the start...
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Notice God was grieved with the generation that came out of Egypt because they did not have the heart to obey God.
Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
Mar 10:5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
Mar 10:7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
Mar 10:8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
Mar 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
The people were not given the Holy Spirit and did not have a circumcised heart. What does God say for today?
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Doesn't mean God approved, it means God did not pass the ultimate death penalty on them because they have not yet had their opportunity...
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
When was Israel blinded? It was an ongoing condition from the start...
Heb 3:9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
Notice God was grieved with the generation that came out of Egypt because they did not have the heart to obey God.
Jesus Christ taught us all that when a law does not allow for mercy, it may be overlooked, taking away the curse fo the law , punishment and death. He taught us that nothing by entering the body corrupts the body, only evil proceeding from the heart corrupts the body making all foods clean when received with thankdsgiving. Jesus Christ is the Only Sacrifice for the sins of manking who come to Him turning from the world (creature) to the Maker (Creator). The ceremonial laws are only concerning Israel geographically and the Temple. We have been made living stones of the true Temple with Jesus Christ as the Head and the Cornerstone which He will assemble in His time. This only leaves the laws on conduct and moral behavior which will never be out of date or obsolete.
Do not teach agains the commandments of God for they are holy and they are wisdom and they are truthful knowledge. Praise God, and be certain we are truned away from the world in favor of the glory that is God, in Jesus Chrsit I pray this for all, amen.
Do not teach agains the commandments of God for they are holy and they are wisdom and they are truthful knowledge. Praise God, and be certain we are truned away from the world in favor of the glory that is God, in Jesus Chrsit I pray this for all, amen.
It's important to recognize "what" Jesus nailed to the cross. What is the context of Colossians 2? Did He nail the whole Law and all of it's principles to the cross? Or,
Colossians 2:13-14
"having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
The context is salvation, which is usually the case when we look at the relationship between the Law and the New Testament. Jesus nailed the punishment of breaking the Law to the cross, not the principles and instructions of them. Salvation and Atonement can't be found in the Law because it was never designed to do that. That is how it fits perfectly with Jesus' instructions in Matthew 5 to follow the Law when your righteousness (in other words, HIS righteousness) surpasses that of the Pharisees who didn't have His righteousness.
Colossians 2:13-14
"having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
The context is salvation, which is usually the case when we look at the relationship between the Law and the New Testament. Jesus nailed the punishment of breaking the Law to the cross, not the principles and instructions of them. Salvation and Atonement can't be found in the Law because it was never designed to do that. That is how it fits perfectly with Jesus' instructions in Matthew 5 to follow the Law when your righteousness (in other words, HIS righteousness) surpasses that of the Pharisees who didn't have His righteousness.
Dr. Robert Thiel has a concise way of explaining Col 2:13-14...
[SIZE=+1]What Does Colossians 2:14 Really Say?[/SIZE]
It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).
Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:
Furthermore, let's look at another translation:
Which requirements were wiped out?
Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!
[SIZE=+1]What Does Colossians 2:14 Really Say?[/SIZE]
It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).
Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:
Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,
1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).
Some will argue that you still cannot keep the ten commandments (for "all have sinned"), even if they are all mentioned as being in effect after the crucifixion. Does this mean one should not try? 1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).
Furthermore, let's look at another translation:
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NASB)
The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.
Which requirements were wiped out?
Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!
From the torah of God, an eye for any eye and a tooth for a tooth. The law dictates any one, male or femal caught in the act of adultery, is to be stoned to death at the testimony of two or more witnesses.
Jesus Christ taught you have heard it said, and eye for an eye, but He says no, to turn the other cheek when struck on one of them.
He mediated between the woman and her accusers who caught her in the very act of adultery for her not to be stoned to death according to the law.
One uninformed person once tried to teach me that adultery is only punishable by stoing to death for virgins. Now that is odd, butcause it is related to married people, husbands or wives. That person was not well learned, but these thingsdo come
about.
Jesus Christ most certainly teaches us that we are to show grace, mercy to all and not punishement by His word and deed. He is our Example. All He taught about how to approach the law is clear to those who do not have a veil over their faces, for it is not only Jews who had this. There are many Gentiles who have taken the veil also.
Jesus Christ taught you have heard it said, and eye for an eye, but He says no, to turn the other cheek when struck on one of them.
He mediated between the woman and her accusers who caught her in the very act of adultery for her not to be stoned to death according to the law.
One uninformed person once tried to teach me that adultery is only punishable by stoing to death for virgins. Now that is odd, butcause it is related to married people, husbands or wives. That person was not well learned, but these thingsdo come
about.
Jesus Christ most certainly teaches us that we are to show grace, mercy to all and not punishement by His word and deed. He is our Example. All He taught about how to approach the law is clear to those who do not have a veil over their faces, for it is not only Jews who had this. There are many Gentiles who have taken the veil also.
A
If Mr. Theil is correct, Jesus didn't do what he said he would. Matt. 5:17. Nowhere does it say that Jesus took part of the llawout of the way.
Matthew 5:17Authorized (King James) Version (
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Here is one articlx
A great deal of confusion exists in the religious world concerning what spiritual law man is under today. Some say the old law still is binding—all of it. Others say that most of it has been abolished, but that some of it still is in effect. Many simply pick and choose laws out of both testaments and abide only by those that are appealing to them. Much of the confusion today about the old law and the new law is a result of the false teachings of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. This intensely evangelistic group teaches that the Ten Commandments still are binding in the present age. Although most Christians readily agree that nine of the Ten Commandments either are stated explicitly or are implied in the New Testament (and thus binding today because they are part of the new law), Seventh-Day Adventists actively teach that the Ten Commandments (including and especially the command to observe the Sabbath day—Exodus 20:8) are part of “God’s unchangeable law” (from the Seventh-Day Adventist’s official Web site—Beliefs: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church). Whereas certain parts of the Old Testament have been abolished, they insist that God intended for the Ten Commandments to be an eternal covenant that all of His children must follow.
In response to such teachings, some Christians (like myself) quickly cite passages of Scripture that indicate the old law has been taken away. For example, the writer of Hebrews plainly stated that “if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second” (8:7). Then, quoting the prophet Jeremiah, he wrote: “Because finding fault with them, He says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt’ ” (8:8-9; cf. Jeremiah 31:31-34). Elsewhere, the apostle Paul stated that Christ has “wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14, emp. added). The old law has become “obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13; cf. 7:12; Ephesians 2:14-16). Although we still can learn numerous valuable lessons and principles about how to live godly lives from the old law (cf. Romans 15:4), we are bound by it no longer.
What some like the Seventh-Day Adventists teach, however, is that that God gave two laws on Mt. Sinai. They differentiate between the Ten Commandments and the ceremonial laws, saying that one (the Ten Commandments) is the Law of God and the other (the ceremonial laws) is the Law of Moses. Moreover, they assert that all of the passages in the Bible that refer to the old law being abolished are speaking of the ceremonial laws and not the Ten Commandments, which (they stress) were written with the very finger of God (Exodus 31:18).
Those who separate the “the Law of God” and “the Law of Moses” (in an attempt to find approval for continuing to follow portions of the old law) fail to realize that the Bible does not make such distinctions. Ezra read from “the Book of the Law of Moses,” which also was called “the Book of the Law of God” (Nehemiah 8:1,18). Luke recorded that after Mary gave birth to Jesus “when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of the Lord, ‘Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord’), and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, ‘A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons’ ” (Luke 2:22-24, emp. added). The Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord were the same thing and still are. When writing to the brethren in Rome, the apostle Paul quoted from the Ten Commandments and taught that it was part of the old law to which they had “become dead…through the body of Christ” (Romans 7:4,7). In his second epistle to the Corinthians, Paul wrote:
The New Testament explicitly teaches that the old law has been abolished. Whether one is talking about the Ten Commandments or the ceremonial laws, the Law of Moses or the Law of God, all are considered the old law that no longer is in effect. Jesus Christ fulfilled that law and nailed it to the cross forever (Matthew 5:17-18; Colossians 2:13-17).
Matthew 5:17Authorized (King James) Version (
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Here is one articlx
A great deal of confusion exists in the religious world concerning what spiritual law man is under today. Some say the old law still is binding—all of it. Others say that most of it has been abolished, but that some of it still is in effect. Many simply pick and choose laws out of both testaments and abide only by those that are appealing to them. Much of the confusion today about the old law and the new law is a result of the false teachings of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. This intensely evangelistic group teaches that the Ten Commandments still are binding in the present age. Although most Christians readily agree that nine of the Ten Commandments either are stated explicitly or are implied in the New Testament (and thus binding today because they are part of the new law), Seventh-Day Adventists actively teach that the Ten Commandments (including and especially the command to observe the Sabbath day—Exodus 20:8) are part of “God’s unchangeable law” (from the Seventh-Day Adventist’s official Web site—Beliefs: The Official Site of the Seventh-day Adventist world church). Whereas certain parts of the Old Testament have been abolished, they insist that God intended for the Ten Commandments to be an eternal covenant that all of His children must follow.
In response to such teachings, some Christians (like myself) quickly cite passages of Scripture that indicate the old law has been taken away. For example, the writer of Hebrews plainly stated that “if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second” (8:7). Then, quoting the prophet Jeremiah, he wrote: “Because finding fault with them, He says: ‘Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt’ ” (8:8-9; cf. Jeremiah 31:31-34). Elsewhere, the apostle Paul stated that Christ has “wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross” (Colossians 2:14, emp. added). The old law has become “obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13; cf. 7:12; Ephesians 2:14-16). Although we still can learn numerous valuable lessons and principles about how to live godly lives from the old law (cf. Romans 15:4), we are bound by it no longer.
What some like the Seventh-Day Adventists teach, however, is that that God gave two laws on Mt. Sinai. They differentiate between the Ten Commandments and the ceremonial laws, saying that one (the Ten Commandments) is the Law of God and the other (the ceremonial laws) is the Law of Moses. Moreover, they assert that all of the passages in the Bible that refer to the old law being abolished are speaking of the ceremonial laws and not the Ten Commandments, which (they stress) were written with the very finger of God (Exodus 31:18).
Those who separate the “the Law of God” and “the Law of Moses” (in an attempt to find approval for continuing to follow portions of the old law) fail to realize that the Bible does not make such distinctions. Ezra read from “the Book of the Law of Moses,” which also was called “the Book of the Law of God” (Nehemiah 8:1,18). Luke recorded that after Mary gave birth to Jesus “when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were completed, they brought Him to Jerusalem to present Him to the Lord (as it is written in the law of the Lord, ‘Every male who opens the womb shall be called holy to the Lord’), and to offer a sacrifice according to what is said in the law of the Lord, ‘A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons’ ” (Luke 2:22-24, emp. added). The Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord were the same thing and still are. When writing to the brethren in Rome, the apostle Paul quoted from the Ten Commandments and taught that it was part of the old law to which they had “become dead…through the body of Christ” (Romans 7:4,7). In his second epistle to the Corinthians, Paul wrote:
[C]learly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart…. But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious…. For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious (3:3-11, emp. added).
What was “passing away”? The law written on the “tablets of stone.” What was the law “engraved on stones” that was given to Moses on Mt. Sinai? The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20). In this passage, Paul teaches the very opposite of what Seventh-Day Adventists teach—the Ten Commandments are not an eternal covenant.The New Testament explicitly teaches that the old law has been abolished. Whether one is talking about the Ten Commandments or the ceremonial laws, the Law of Moses or the Law of God, all are considered the old law that no longer is in effect. Jesus Christ fulfilled that law and nailed it to the cross forever (Matthew 5:17-18; Colossians 2:13-17).
Where do you find in Scripture that stoning is specificed for any adultery other than that of a virgin betrothed to be married?
Yes, an example of Jesus setting aside the Mosiac law of retaliation
and as Lawgiver, giving a new law of non-retaliation.
Yes, the law did not require her stoning because she was not a betrothed virgin,
but they sought to illegally trap him, and he turned the tables on them exposing their own sin.
So in one instance, as Lawgiver, he set aside the law of retaliation, and
in the other instance he brought the law to bear on the sin of the accusers who
would stone her illegally.
Yes, as Lawgiver, in the new covenant he has
set aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with his law (Mt 22:37-39),
which fulfills the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
through the indwelling Holy Spirit
who writes his new covenant law on our minds and hearts (Jer 31:31),
giving us to know what is loving and what is not loving,
without a written code of myriad regulations to do so.
"The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."
(Jn 1:17)
Yes, an example of Jesus setting aside the Mosiac law of retaliation
and as Lawgiver, giving a new law of non-retaliation.
Yes, the law did not require her stoning because she was not a betrothed virgin,
but they sought to illegally trap him, and he turned the tables on them exposing their own sin.
So in one instance, as Lawgiver, he set aside the law of retaliation, and
in the other instance he brought the law to bear on the sin of the accusers who
would stone her illegally.
Yes, as Lawgiver, in the new covenant he has
set aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with his law (Mt 22:37-39),
which fulfills the Law and the Prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
through the indwelling Holy Spirit
who writes his new covenant law on our minds and hearts (Jer 31:31),
giving us to know what is loving and what is not loving,
without a written code of myriad regulations to do so.
"The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."
(Jn 1:17)
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wow, thanks for the long response! i appreciate that! I'm gonna answer in sections so hopefully i don't get lost...
OK, I'm not sure how you're saying this works... back in 916, "Following God doesn't mean keeping a set of rules strictly for the purpose of keeping those rules. Following God means following His Spirit."
so, does following God mean keeping the rules, or does it sometimes mean breaking the rules? ... will God sometimes lead a person to be lax in keeping those rules?
OK, I'm not sure how you're saying this works... back in 916, "Following God doesn't mean keeping a set of rules strictly for the purpose of keeping those rules. Following God means following His Spirit."
so, does following God mean keeping the rules, or does it sometimes mean breaking the rules? ... will God sometimes lead a person to be lax in keeping those rules?
When you pursue a set of rules just for the sake of those rules, you get nothing but perhaps some physical benefit that comes from keeping it.
When you follow God's Spirit, it will show you how to keep those rules, and in what way. The Holy Spirit won't cause you break those rules because the Holy Spirit=God, and God wrote those rules.
Does God want us to sin? Of course not. That means God always wants us to follow His rules/commands/laws.
When you follow God's Spirit, it will show you how to keep those rules, and in what way. The Holy Spirit won't cause you break those rules because the Holy Spirit=God, and God wrote those rules.
Does God want us to sin? Of course not. That means God always wants us to follow His rules/commands/laws.