What exactly is faith?

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Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#81
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#81
John146 said:
When we place our faith in the cross of Christ, we are immediately justified by the faith of Jesus Christ because we are found in Him. Gods righteousness made known by the faith of Jesus has been imputed to us, no works needed on our behalf.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Philippians 2:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
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It is my firm belief that the KJV rendering was legitimate for 1611 but, because the meaning and usage of words has changed over the intervening four centuries, the KJV wording is misleading today. Rather, the modern translations, which have slight variants on "faith in Jesus Christ" are more true to 21st century English than the KJV's "faith of Jesus Christ".

Your quotation of Phillipans 2:9 is erroneous; that verse in the KJV says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: "

John146 said:
Correct! It all circles back to Jesus Christ!😉
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Apparently, you've been taking lessons in logic from garee. That's a bad idea.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#82
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#82
Dino246 said:
It is my firm belief that the KJV rendering was legitimate for 1611 but, because the meaning and usage of words has changed over the intervening four centuries, the KJV wording is misleading today. Rather, the modern translations, which have slight variants on "faith in Jesus Christ" are more true to 21st century English than the KJV's "faith of Jesus Christ".

Your quotation of Phillipans 2:9 is erroneous; that verse in the KJV says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: "


Apparently, you've been taking lessons in logic from garee. That's a bad idea.
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Philippians 3:9
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#83
Jan 13, 2016
16,638
3,533
113
#83
Dino246 said:
It is my firm belief that the KJV rendering was legitimate for 1611 but, because the meaning and usage of words has changed over the intervening four centuries, the KJV wording is misleading today. Rather, the modern translations, which have slight variants on "faith in Jesus Christ" are more true to 21st century English than the KJV's "faith of Jesus Christ".

Your quotation of Phillipans 2:9 is erroneous; that verse in the KJV says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: "


Apparently, you've been taking lessons in logic from garee. That's a bad idea.
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Faith in Christ = man’s individual faith = waivers
Faith of Christ = Christ’s faith = never waivered
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#84
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#84
John146 said:
Faith in Christ = man’s individual faith = waivers
Faith of Christ = Christ’s faith = never waivered
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Your comments here are merely interpretive glosses and are not actually Scripture.

The overall teaching of Scripture is that it is our faith in God and in Jesus Christ that is salvific. I don't know of a single statement in Scripture that implies that Jesus exercised faith (certainty in things not seen); He didn't need it, because He is Himself God. He knew whence He came, Who His Father is, and what His mission entailed. He had authority to lay down His life and to take it up again.

Galatians 3:22 says, "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." Verse 26 says, "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." If what you claim is correct, then these verses contradict each other!

There are, to my count, four verses with the phrase, "faith of Jesus Christ" (or similar). There are many more verses which have either "faith in Christ" (or similar) or "your/our faith" (or similar). It makes far more sense that the overall teaching of Scripture is consistent, and that "faith of Christ" is to be read as "faith of which Christ is the object" rather than as "the faith which Jesus exercised" for which there is no other support.

By the way, the word you should have used is "waver"; "waiver" is a noun, not a verb.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#85
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
63
#85
Total and true faith in Christ means to believe totally and solely in all Christ says. Instead, what we all are is double minded, believing in both what Christ says, and believing in the world/mammon.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#86
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#86
luigi said:
Total and true faith in Christ means to believe totally and solely in all Christ says. Instead, what we all are is double minded, believing in both what Christ says, and believing in the world/mammon.
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That is not biblically sound. If we were to believe solely in all Christ says, we would not believe at all in anything that anyone else says; that means ignoring Paul, Peter, Luke, Matthew, Jude, Isaiah, Moses, David, etc. What you end up with a Jesus without foundation or prophecy.
 
L

luigi

Junior Member
#87
Dec 6, 2015
1,222
216
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#87
Dino246 said:
That is not biblically sound. If we were to believe solely in all Christ says, we would not believe at all in anything that anyone else says; that means ignoring Paul, Peter, Luke, Matthew, Jude, Isaiah, Moses, David, etc. What you end up with a Jesus without foundation or prophecy.
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I was under the impression that the whole volume of the bible is the Word, and therefore Jesus.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,

Hebrews 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
 
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