Ok that does not make any sense AT ALL to me but you seem to have it worked out in your mind.
Your claim that "I have worked it out in my mind" is a common ploy to discredit the truth, which many use. I can assure you that this information comes from many years of personal, on-going study.
The reason that it doesn't make sense to you, is because it doesn't agree with the false teachings that you have adopted.
In chapters 2 and 3, John writes letters to the seven churches, therefore, he is familiar with who the church is. Then in chapter 7 we are introduced to a group of white robe saints which no man can count, with the elder asking John who they are and which he replies that he doesn't know. Then the elder tells him that this group of saints are those who come out of the great tribulation, i.e. great tribulation saints.
In support off this, if you will notice that the word "church" is used 18 times within chapters 1 thru 3. Then, from chapter 4 onward, the word church falls off the radar. The word "ekklesia" translated as "church" is never mentioned again during the narrative of God's wrath. The next time the word is used is in the epilog in Rev.22:16. The abrupt disuse of the word "church" should be a red flag to those studying the book of Revelation.
Your error is three fold: 1) you are not recognizing the fact that the word "hagios" translated as saints, is never used interchangeably with the word church within chapters 1 thru 3.
And 2) you're not recognizing the abrupt disuse of the word "church" after the end of chapter 3. The disuse of the word "church" after using it 18 times prior, is a God given clue that the church is no longer on the earth from chapter 4 onward.
And 3) you are not recognizing that the trials and tribulation that Jesus said all believers would have, vs. the wrath of God, which believers are not appointed to suffer, are both different in nature and purpose. God's wrath is for those who will have continued to reject Christ and who continue to live according to the sinful nature. Those who believe in Christ have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God and you think that God is going to send them through His wrath?
In the same way, the apostles and the first century church did not suffer the wrath of God, but suffered the trials and tribulations because of their faith in Jesus Christ. By your by saying "And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption." This would demonstrate that you do not recognize the difference between common trials and tribulation which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. the unprecedented wrath of God which is soon to come upon this earth and will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human governent.
My prayer for you people is that God would unharden your hearts and open your eyes to the truth of His word, because you and many others are being deceived by the teachings of men.
By the way, the great tribulation saints are not the church. Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descend and remove the church from the earth and then will begin the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath. The church won't be exposed to God's wrath, because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it complete. The great tribulation saints are those who will have not been ready when the Lord appears and gathers the church, but will be those who become believers after the church has been removed and during the time of God's wrath.
Your claim that "I have worked it out in my mind" is a common ploy to discredit the truth, which many use. I can assure you that this information comes from many years of personal, on-going study.
The reason that it doesn't make sense to you, is because it doesn't agree with the false teachings that you have adopted.
In chapters 2 and 3, John writes letters to the seven churches, therefore, he is familiar with who the church is. Then in chapter 7 we are introduced to a group of white robe saints which no man can count, with the elder asking John who they are and which he replies that he doesn't know. Then the elder tells him that this group of saints are those who come out of the great tribulation, i.e. great tribulation saints.
In support off this, if you will notice that the word "church" is used 18 times within chapters 1 thru 3. Then, from chapter 4 onward, the word church falls off the radar. The word "ekklesia" translated as "church" is never mentioned again during the narrative of God's wrath. The next time the word is used is in the epilog in Rev.22:16. The abrupt disuse of the word "church" should be a red flag to those studying the book of Revelation.
I dont really buy the 'disappearing church' trick.
We believers are all tribulation saints because everyone of us has tribulation on this earth. If one doesnt, then I wouldnt consider them to have suffered for their faith. And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption. They are a great multitude without number! How can there be two lots of the church?!
We believers are all tribulation saints because everyone of us has tribulation on this earth. If one doesnt, then I wouldnt consider them to have suffered for their faith. And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption. They are a great multitude without number! How can there be two lots of the church?!
And 2) you're not recognizing the abrupt disuse of the word "church" after the end of chapter 3. The disuse of the word "church" after using it 18 times prior, is a God given clue that the church is no longer on the earth from chapter 4 onward.
And 3) you are not recognizing that the trials and tribulation that Jesus said all believers would have, vs. the wrath of God, which believers are not appointed to suffer, are both different in nature and purpose. God's wrath is for those who will have continued to reject Christ and who continue to live according to the sinful nature. Those who believe in Christ have been credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God and you think that God is going to send them through His wrath?
In the same way, the apostles and the first century church did not suffer the wrath of God, but suffered the trials and tribulations because of their faith in Jesus Christ. By your by saying "And unless we know suffering, we cant really know Christs redemption." This would demonstrate that you do not recognize the difference between common trials and tribulation which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness vs. the unprecedented wrath of God which is soon to come upon this earth and will decimate the majority of the earths population and dismantle all human governent.
My prayer for you people is that God would unharden your hearts and open your eyes to the truth of His word, because you and many others are being deceived by the teachings of men.
By the way, the great tribulation saints are not the church. Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descend and remove the church from the earth and then will begin the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath. The church won't be exposed to God's wrath, because Jesus already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it complete. The great tribulation saints are those who will have not been ready when the Lord appears and gathers the church, but will be those who become believers after the church has been removed and during the time of God's wrath.