what has been fulfilled?
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My dear, you don't understand. I was explaining the symbolism of the dragon, & what he represents. We are in agreement on that part.
The part I don't agree on is the thousand years..... no other place in scripture, nor any translation says the "thousand years" is anything else but a thousand years. Even paraphrases say the same thing..... no variations.
It is what it is.
The part I don't agree on is the thousand years..... no other place in scripture, nor any translation says the "thousand years" is anything else but a thousand years. Even paraphrases say the same thing..... no variations.
It is what it is.
oh wow please.
SYMBOLIC (ACTUAL): dragon (SATAN); seven heads (HERODS) Seven Herods in the New Testament ; ten kings (CAESARS); beast (IMPERIAL ROME); woman/harlot (APOSTATE ISRAEL/JERUSALEM); a thousand years (A COMPLETED TIME)
why do dispies have to ruin the beauty and simplicity of scripture
SYMBOLIC (ACTUAL): dragon (SATAN); seven heads (HERODS) Seven Herods in the New Testament ; ten kings (CAESARS); beast (IMPERIAL ROME); woman/harlot (APOSTATE ISRAEL/JERUSALEM); a thousand years (A COMPLETED TIME)
why do dispies have to ruin the beauty and simplicity of scripture
Jesus said the above regarding the casting out of demons in that, Satan must first be restricted/subdued in order to be able to cast out his demons. This has nothing to do with Satan's binding in Rev.20:1-3, which take place after Christ returns to the earth to end the age and establish his millennial kingdom.
think about it Ahwatukee...think it through.
what would be the worst thing saved ppl could do but sacrifice animals?
yet there are ppl claiming to be saved who think that's exactly what will happen, because they have severed fulfilled stuff and dragged it into the future, because they can not understand God's message
what would be the worst thing saved ppl could do but sacrifice animals?
yet there are ppl claiming to be saved who think that's exactly what will happen, because they have severed fulfilled stuff and dragged it into the future, because they can not understand God's message
According to scripture, you are incorrect on what the above represent:
The dragon/beast represents a couple of things:
* Dragon = Satan who is orchestrating those events
* Seven heads = Seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits
* Ten horns = Those ten kings who are appointed as kings along with the beast
* The woman = That great city that rules over the kings of the earth, which would have been Rome at the time that John was receiving the information.
That woman/city also sits on seven hills, which Rome was literally built on and is famous for. The woman of Rev.17 & 18 is not apostate Israel/Jerusalem and there is one very good reason above the others as to why she is not. Some time during the last half of the last 3 1/2 years, Mystery, Babylon the great, that woman/city that sits on seven hills, will be destroyed by the beast and the ten kings. So much so that, no one will be able to ever inhabit that city again. Yet regarding Israel, scripture reveals that at the end of the millennial period, Gog and Magog will surround the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, demonstrating that Israel will be inhabited during the millennium.
The dragon/beast represents a couple of things:
* Dragon = Satan who is orchestrating those events
* Seven heads = Seven hills/mountains upon which the woman sits
* Ten horns = Those ten kings who are appointed as kings along with the beast
* The woman = That great city that rules over the kings of the earth, which would have been Rome at the time that John was receiving the information.
That woman/city also sits on seven hills, which Rome was literally built on and is famous for. The woman of Rev.17 & 18 is not apostate Israel/Jerusalem and there is one very good reason above the others as to why she is not. Some time during the last half of the last 3 1/2 years, Mystery, Babylon the great, that woman/city that sits on seven hills, will be destroyed by the beast and the ten kings. So much so that, no one will be able to ever inhabit that city again. Yet regarding Israel, scripture reveals that at the end of the millennial period, Gog and Magog will surround the camp of God's people, the city that He loves, demonstrating that Israel will be inhabited during the millennium.
not quite reading carefully enough.
there are several mentions of seven heads....Daniel and revelation.
“Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. (Rev 17:9-10 NASB)
The following justify the statement that the heads are the same as the kings:
(A) The KJV and NKJV translations give the incorrect impression that the kings (17:10) are different from the heads and mountains upon which the woman sits, mentioned in 17:9. The KJV begins 17:10 with, “And there are seven kings.” Even worse, the NKJV says, “There are also seven kings.” As in the NASB quoted above, it should read “And they are seven kings”. All the Greek texts, although differing in word order, include the following words, literally translated, “and kings they are seven”. The words “there” and “also” in the KJV and NKJV translations are not in the Greek.
(B) According to 17:9 the heads are mountains. Nobody disputes that. What is disputed is whether the kings in 17:10 are the same as the mountains. But the relationship between kings (17:10) and mountains (17:9) is well-established in Scripture—mountains represent the power of kingdoms and their individual kings (Isaiah 2:2-3; Jeremiah 17:3; 31:23; 51:24, 25; Ezekiel 17:22-23; Zech. 4:7). In Habakkuk 3:6 the mountains may be seen as the nations which God scattered. The stone (Dan 2:34) becomes a great mountain (Dan 2:35), which is explained as “a kingdom which will never be destroyed” (Dan 2:44). And “Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it” (Isa 2:2 NASB). If the heads are mountains, and the mountains are kings, then the heads are kings as well.
.........
anyway - Jerusalem is on seven mountains as is San Fransico. how are you going to decide?
there are several mentions of seven heads....Daniel and revelation.
“Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. (Rev 17:9-10 NASB)
The following justify the statement that the heads are the same as the kings:
(A) The KJV and NKJV translations give the incorrect impression that the kings (17:10) are different from the heads and mountains upon which the woman sits, mentioned in 17:9. The KJV begins 17:10 with, “And there are seven kings.” Even worse, the NKJV says, “There are also seven kings.” As in the NASB quoted above, it should read “And they are seven kings”. All the Greek texts, although differing in word order, include the following words, literally translated, “and kings they are seven”. The words “there” and “also” in the KJV and NKJV translations are not in the Greek.
(B) According to 17:9 the heads are mountains. Nobody disputes that. What is disputed is whether the kings in 17:10 are the same as the mountains. But the relationship between kings (17:10) and mountains (17:9) is well-established in Scripture—mountains represent the power of kingdoms and their individual kings (Isaiah 2:2-3; Jeremiah 17:3; 31:23; 51:24, 25; Ezekiel 17:22-23; Zech. 4:7). In Habakkuk 3:6 the mountains may be seen as the nations which God scattered. The stone (Dan 2:34) becomes a great mountain (Dan 2:35), which is explained as “a kingdom which will never be destroyed” (Dan 2:44). And “Now it will come about that In the last days The mountain of the house of the LORD Will be established as the chief of the mountains, And will be raised above the hills; And all the nations will stream to it” (Isa 2:2 NASB). If the heads are mountains, and the mountains are kings, then the heads are kings as well.
.........
anyway - Jerusalem is on seven mountains as is San Fransico. how are you going to decide?
Revelation 11:15 (KJV)
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
[The kingdoms of this world] are become [the kingdoms of our Lord], and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.
do you not believe this bible verse? surley this has not happened yet.
that Christ will take over this current worlds kingdoms[or governments]
(Is 9:6)surley there is no peace between nations today
-
Zechariah 14:17 (KJV)
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
- when did above happen?
the meek inherit the earth
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
[The kingdoms of this world] are become [the kingdoms of our Lord], and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.
do you not believe this bible verse? surley this has not happened yet.
that Christ will take over this current worlds kingdoms[or governments]
(Is 9:6)surley there is no peace between nations today
-
Zechariah 14:17 (KJV)
And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem
to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
- when did above happen?
the meek inherit the earth
Sir, I have had 40 years to think it through. My answers are not off the cuff of my sleeve and you would do well to listen and search out what I am sharing with you.
According to Dan.9:24-26, the decree regarding Israel was for seventy seven year periods. Seven sevens to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and at the end of sixty two sevens the Messiah was cut off. From that time, God paused that last seven year period and began to build His church, which is still in progress. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and gather his church taking us back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3). Once that takes place, God will then pick up where he left off with that last seven years, fulfilling the decree of seventy sevens.
According to Dan.9:27, the ruler of the people/antichrist will establish a seven year covenant with Israel allowing them to rebuild their temple on the temple mount and to resume sacrifices and offerings according to the law given to Moses. Remember, Israel did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, so as far as they are concerned, they are still waiting for their Messiah and therefore still consider themselves as being under the law.
Regarding the temple, the Sanhedrin has already been reconvened for some time. The priest clothing has been duplicated and the blueprints for the temple are already in place. The priests have already been learning all of the requirements regarding temple duties according to God's law given by Moses.
According to Dan.9:24-26, the decree regarding Israel was for seventy seven year periods. Seven sevens to restore and rebuild Jerusalem and at the end of sixty two sevens the Messiah was cut off. From that time, God paused that last seven year period and began to build His church, which is still in progress. Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and gather his church taking us back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3). Once that takes place, God will then pick up where he left off with that last seven years, fulfilling the decree of seventy sevens.
According to Dan.9:27, the ruler of the people/antichrist will establish a seven year covenant with Israel allowing them to rebuild their temple on the temple mount and to resume sacrifices and offerings according to the law given to Moses. Remember, Israel did not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, so as far as they are concerned, they are still waiting for their Messiah and therefore still consider themselves as being under the law.
Regarding the temple, the Sanhedrin has already been reconvened for some time. The priest clothing has been duplicated and the blueprints for the temple are already in place. The priests have already been learning all of the requirements regarding temple duties according to God's law given by Moses.
Psalm 50
The Mighty One Calls
…9"I shall take no young bull out of your house Nor male goats out of your folds. 10"For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills. 11"I know every bird of the mountains, And everything that moves in the field is Mine.…
how many cattle on how many hills belong to God?
he said every creature is his, but what about BOVINE MOUNTAIN 1004?
who do those cattle belong to?
The Mighty One Calls
…9"I shall take no young bull out of your house Nor male goats out of your folds. 10"For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills. 11"I know every bird of the mountains, And everything that moves in the field is Mine.…
how many cattle on how many hills belong to God?
he said every creature is his, but what about BOVINE MOUNTAIN 1004?
who do those cattle belong to?
And what would prompt you to related Palm 50:10 with Rev.20:1-7? What? Just because the words "a thousand" is used? There is absolutely no reason to apply the meaning behind Psalm 50:10 to Rev.20:1-3. The context in Rev.20 speaks for itself making it clear that the thousand years is exactly that, a literal thousand years.
To apply Psalm 50:10 to Rev.20:1-3 would be a misapplication of scripture.
To apply Psalm 50:10 to Rev.20:1-3 would be a misapplication of scripture.
Jesus' kingdom was not of this world at that time. His appearing in the flesh was not for the purpose of becoming king of the world, but to meet the righteous requirements of the law and pay the penalty for the sins of mankind. However, when he returns to the earth after God's wrath has been poured out, then he will descend as King of kings and Lord of lords and he will sit on the throne of David in fulfillment of the prophecy ruling from Jerusalem during the millennial period.
" ‘After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, even all the Gentiles who bear my name, says the Lord, who does these
things’ — things known from long ago.[SUP]' "[/SUP]
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sorry, I can only deal with parts at a time (out of the forum game for a long time).
which great city is this?
Rev 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
.......
the same as this:
Jeremiah 23:14
"Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:46
"Now your older sister is Samaria, who lives north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lives south of you, is Sodom with her daughters.
Ezekiel 16:49
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel 23:3
and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and there their virgin bosom was handled.
Ezekiel 23:8
"She did not forsake her harlotries from the time in Egypt; for in her youth men had lain with her, and they handled her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.
Jeremiah 22:8 “‘People from other nations will pass by this city. They will ask one another, “Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?”
Revelation 14:8
Then a second angel followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who has made all the Gentiles to drink the wine of the passion of her immorality."
John is the first prophet to identify Jerusalem with Babylon (most prophets were already dead before actual Babylon fell).
Jerusalem as Sodom/Egypt/Babylon is very clear. dozens of scriptural references to the great city Jerusalem, including God saying ancient Jerusalem ruled over the kings of the earth. under david, she was the most powerful and civilized in the world
......
but look!
Ezra 4:20
Jerusalem has had powerful kings ruling over the whole of Trans-Euphrates, and taxes, tribute and duty were paid to them.
OH! Jerusalem once had kings ruling over the whole known civilization!
Lamentations : 1
How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
which great city is this?
Rev 11:8
and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
.......
the same as this:
Jeremiah 23:14
"Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
Ezekiel 16:46
"Now your older sister is Samaria, who lives north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lives south of you, is Sodom with her daughters.
Ezekiel 16:49
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel 23:3
and they played the harlot in Egypt. They played the harlot in their youth; there their breasts were pressed and there their virgin bosom was handled.
Ezekiel 23:8
"She did not forsake her harlotries from the time in Egypt; for in her youth men had lain with her, and they handled her virgin bosom and poured out their lust on her.
Jeremiah 22:8 “‘People from other nations will pass by this city. They will ask one another, “Why has the Lord done such a thing to this great city?”
Revelation 14:8
Then a second angel followed, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, who has made all the Gentiles to drink the wine of the passion of her immorality."
John is the first prophet to identify Jerusalem with Babylon (most prophets were already dead before actual Babylon fell).
Jerusalem as Sodom/Egypt/Babylon is very clear. dozens of scriptural references to the great city Jerusalem, including God saying ancient Jerusalem ruled over the kings of the earth. under david, she was the most powerful and civilized in the world
......
but look!
Ezra 4:20
Jerusalem has had powerful kings ruling over the whole of Trans-Euphrates, and taxes, tribute and duty were paid to them.
OH! Jerusalem once had kings ruling over the whole known civilization!
Lamentations : 1
How deserted lies the city, once so full of people! How like a widow is she, who once was great among the nations! She who was queen among the provinces has now become a slave.
I'm mrs., not sir.
okay.
been through all your arguments before - they are not new.
I know your position inside out.
it's just wrong.
total RUBBISH.
in fact it's a plain heresy to push a stop button in Daniel 9 that isn't there.
you negated everything the Lord has done, for both the jews and the gentiles.
Daniel 9 is FULFILLED....all of it. as are 10; 11 and 12
okay.
been through all your arguments before - they are not new.
I know your position inside out.
it's just wrong.
total RUBBISH.
in fact it's a plain heresy to push a stop button in Daniel 9 that isn't there.
you negated everything the Lord has done, for both the jews and the gentiles.
Daniel 9 is FULFILLED....all of it. as are 10; 11 and 12
I believe that Jesus fulfilled the Abraham covenant of children of faith. Seen in Genesis 15, the sacrifice of the 5 different animals representing all mankind, the covenant and Exodus 13: 12. The redeemed children of God.
I also believe this picture was seen by Peter; the firstling translates to Peter if you look at the Hebrew. Jesus renames him Peter, the first to see the Sons of God born from the "rock".
Would He not of fulfilled all the laws and feasts in some symbolic way? I think so but have yet to look.
I also believe this picture was seen by Peter; the firstling translates to Peter if you look at the Hebrew. Jesus renames him Peter, the first to see the Sons of God born from the "rock".
Would He not of fulfilled all the laws and feasts in some symbolic way? I think so but have yet to look.
muslims are antichrist in the same way jews and other unbelievers are. john defined it for us:
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
but so what if there is a mosque on the temple mount?
God is through with Jerusalem on earth.
everybody is on an equal footing in Christ; and without Christ.
1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
but so what if there is a mosque on the temple mount?
God is through with Jerusalem on earth.
everybody is on an equal footing in Christ; and without Christ.