what has been fulfilled?

Stephen63 · Nov 17, 2016

One thing I've come to understand about God (probably just one, lol). God will do what he says. He may never do it like we think he ought to, neither will He do it like logic predicts He should..... but He will do it. As far as these "sevens" of Daniel, there's no rule we can hold up to God & say "You're not doing this all together like You're supposed to."

Even several of Jesus' prophesies had parts that are no where near each other on the time table of life.

Like Son, like Father.

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

The seven heads are symbolic representing two different things, the seven hills upon which the woman sits. And they also represent those seven succession of kings.

Five have fallen = Five of those succession of kings had ruled and gone

One is = King number six was ruling at the time the angel was giving John this information

The other has not yet come = King number seven was future to John and in the past to us

The eighth king = Is that beast who will come up out of the Abyss and will control the antichrist. He is also that head/king that receives the fatal wound of Rev.13:3.

The Woman = "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.

The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

The woman is a city that sits on seven hills.

Stephen63 · Nov 17, 2016

Spurgeon always believed the city on seven hills is modern Rome. Can't say I blame him, Rome is full of abominations, is it not?

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

absolutely backwards.
in fact, we see that the cases used elsewhere buttress the argument that a thousand is symbolic.

come on....it's sooooooo obvious.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

Deuteronomy 7:9
"Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments;

what happens if the end of the world comes before a thousand years?
does God stop loving us after a thousand years?
how long is eternity|?

it means a full number - completion. nothing more.

in fact, I've said this a thousand times (more actually)

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

Zone, those are types of antichrist's. However, there is "the antichrist," that man of lawlessness, the little horn of Daniel, who is coming, that last day ruler.

"But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.

The fact that both the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire would demonstrate that they are two individuals. So yes, John mentions types of antichrists that were already in the world, but there is "the antichrist" that will be that last day ruler of whom Revelation says the following:

"And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written from the creation of the world in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain."

This beast/antichrist is speaking of an individual ruler who is to come.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

maybe you don't believe James - FULFILLED:

Acts 15

6The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

12And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

16“‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnantb of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things 18known from of old.’

19Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

What is obvious, and which you cannot deny, is that the scripture states that the time of Satan's binding and Christ's rule is for a thousand years. I agree with exactly what it says. You and others on the other hand, have to change the meaning of "a thousand years" as being symbolic. You certainly can't say, "But it doesn't say a thousand years." Therefore, your being correct depends if your symbolism of the thousand years is true. With my interpretation nothing has to be changed, for I am believing exactly what the scripture states. You on the other hand have to change the meaning.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

how will the whole world come against Christ in the millennium after less than a thousand years, and with him supposedly here in person? do they forget he's there?

- do you believe in animals sacrifices the scriptures....you know the ones...that supposedly speak about the millennium? << please answer.

- are there a combination of flesh ppl and spirit ppl on earth during millennium?

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

maybe you don't believe James - FULFILLED:

Acts 15

6The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us, 9and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith. 10Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

12And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

16“‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnantb of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things 18known from of old.’

19Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Not fulfilled! Jesus is not yet ruling from the throne of David and from Jerusalem. Oh you people! You're always claiming the fulfillment of scripture without the actual events having taken place. Jesus is going to literally return to this earth after the wrath of God has been fulfilled, ending the age. At that time he will establish his literal thousand year kingdom.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

so, you SAW it, and refuse to believe it.
goodbye.

Acts 15
12And all the assembly fell silent, and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brothers, listen to me. 14Simeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take from them a people for his name. 15And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written,

16“‘After this I will return,
and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;
I will rebuild its ruins,
and I will restore it,
17that the remnantb of mankind may seek the Lord,
and all the Gentiles who are called by my name,
says the Lord, who makes these things 18known from of old.’

19Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God, 20but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood. 21For from ancient generations Moses has had in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every Sabbath in the synagogues.”

Stephen63 · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

If we symbolically retranslated something that Paul said six times Ahwatukee, the same people would verbally crucify us, wouldn't they?

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Stephen63 said:

Shhhhteven

did the church already come to the conclusion this was a fulfillment

Acts 15
The Council at Jerusalem
…15The words of the prophets agree with this, as it is written: 16‘After this I will return and rebuild David’s fallen tent. Its ruins I will rebuild, and I will restore it, 17so that the remnant of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who bear My name, says the Lord who does these things…

of this?

Amos 9:11
"In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David, And wall up its breaches; I will also raise up its ruins And rebuild it as in the days of old;

just yes or no

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

The scripture does not say "the whole world" comes against Christ. What it does say is that those people represented by Gog and Magog will march across the breadth of the earth and surround the camp of God's people, the city that He loves. The people don't forget that Christ is there, but as soon as Satan is released, he lures them to rebel against God for the last time. After having peace for a thousand years, mankind, at the tempting of Satan, will once again rebel against God, just as they have always done. I believe that God will be proving a point here at the end of the millennium.

I believe that I have already answered that question in a previous post. Israel did not recognized Jesus as their Messiah and as far as they are concerned they are still under the law given to Moses, including the sacrificial law. When that antichrist appears, he will make it possible for Israel to rebuild their temple and they will again begin to offer sacrifices according to the law. In the middle of the seven years, the antichrist/beast will cause their sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. This will cause those in Jerusalem/Judea to flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where Israel will remain during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to end the age (Matt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14, 19:11-21).

While that is going on with Israel, the great tribulation saints, who will be Gentile believers, will be present during that last 3 1/2 years and will be persecuted by the beast, many of which who will be beheaded for their testimony of Christ and the word of God and who will not have worshiped him, his image nor received his mark in hands or forehead.

When Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21, following him out of heaven will be that army riding on white horses, who are those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up, the bride. These, along with the great tribulation saints who are resurrected, will rule with Christ during that millennial period in their immortal and glorified bodies. The woman/Israel and the Gentile great tribulation saints who survive until Christ returns, will repopulate the earth in their mortal bodies during the millennial period.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

The scripture does not say "the whole world" comes against Christ. What it does say is that those people represented by Gog and Magog will march across the breadth of the earth and surround the camp of God's people, the city that He loves. The people don't forget that Christ is there, but as soon as Satan is released, he lures them to rebel against God for the last time. After having peace for a thousand years, mankind, at the tempting of Satan, will once again rebel against God, just as they have always done. I believe that God will be proving a point here at the end of the millennium.

I believe that I have already answered that question in a previous post. Israel did not recognized Jesus as their Messiah and as far as they are concerned they are still under the law given to Moses, including the sacrificial law. When that antichrist appears, he will make it possible for Israel to rebuild their temple and they will again begin to offer sacrifices according to the law. In the middle of the seven years, the antichrist/beast will cause their sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. This will cause those in Jerusalem/Judea to flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where Israel will remain during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to end the age (Matt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14, 19:11-21).

While that is going on with Israel, the great tribulation saints, who will be Gentile believers, will be present during that last 3 1/2 years and will be persecuted by the beast, many of which who will be beheaded for their testimony of Christ and the word of God and who will not have worshiped him, his image nor received his mark in hands or forehead.

When Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21, following him out of heaven will be that army riding on white horses, who are those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up, the bride. These, along with the great tribulation saints who are resurrected, will rule with Christ during that millennial period in their immortal and glorified bodies. The woman/Israel and the Gentile great tribulation saints who survive until Christ returns, will repopulate the earth in their mortal bodies during the millennial period.

well I must say you're one of the most dispensationally/doctrinally advanced I've met. I've found ppl as involved as you are rarely change their minds. if they do, they don't inform me.
too bad it's a huge house of cards....you would want to hope God brings it down for you....you will have to start over.
good luck to you

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

Stephen63 said:

I believe that when something is repeated such as the words "a thousand years," it testifies to its literal meaning, in most cases. They do the same thing with the number given of 144,000. They don't believe that number is literal, but instead apply some funky meaning to it so that it ends up representing an unknown number. Yet John said that he heard the number of those who were sealed 144,000 and then he gives a break-down of the 144,000 by each tribe. In addition to that, the number of 144,000 is again referred to in chapter 14 and after all of that, they still apply a symbolic meaning to it. Clueless they are!

wanderer6059 · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

Strong's Concordance

eleph: a thousand

Original Word: [FONT=&quot]אָ֫לֶפ[/FONT]
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: eleph
Phonetic Spelling: (eh'-lef)
Short Definition: thousandNAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. root
Definition
a thousand
NASB Translation
1,000 (18), 1,000,000* (2), 1,005* (1), 1,017* (2), 1,052* (2), 1,100,000* (3), 1,200* (1), 1,222* (1), 1,247* (2), 1,254* (4), 1,290* (1), 1,335* (1), 1,365* (1), 1,400* (2), 1,700* (3), 1,760* (1), 1,775* (2), 10,000* (20), 100,000* (7), 108,100* (2), 12,000* (8), 120,000* (5), 14,000* (1), 14,700* (1), 15,000* (1), 151,450* (2), 153,600* (2), 157,600* (2), 16,000* (2), 16,750* (1), 17,200* (1), 18,000* (7), 180,000* (3), 185,000* (2), 186,400* (3), 2,000 (5), 2,056* (1), 2,067* (1), 2,172* (2), 2,200* (1), 2,300* (1), 2,322* (1), 2,400* (2), 2,600* (2), 2,630* (1), 2,700* (1), 2,750* (1), 2,812* (1), 2,818* (1), 20,000* (10), 20,200* (1), 20,800* (1), 200,000* (4), 22,000* (7), 22,034* (1), 22,200* (1), 22,273* (1), 22,600* (1), 23,000* (1), 24,000* (15), 25,000* (16), 25,100* (1), 250,000* (1), 26,000* (2), 27,000* (1), 28,600* (1), 280,000* (2), 3,000* (11), 3,023* (1), 3,200* (1), 3,300* (1), 3,600* (2), 3,630* (1), 3,700* (1), 3,930* (1), 30,000* (5), 30,500* (2), 300,000* (4), 307,500* (2), 32,000* (2), 32,200* (2), 32,500* (1), 337,500* (6), 35,400* (2), 36,000* (3), 37,000* (1), 38,000* (1), 4,000* (3), 4,500* (8), 4,600* (2), 40,000* (5), 40,500* (3), 400,000* (3), 41,500* (2), 42,000* (1), 42,360* (2), 43,730* (1), 44,760* (1), 45,400* (1), 45,600* (1), 45,650* (2), 46,500* (2), 470,000* (1), 5,000* (7), 5,400* (1), 50,000* (2), 50,070* (1), 500,000* (1), 52,700* (1), 53,400* (3), 54,400* (2), 57,400* (2), 59,300* (2), 6,000* (3), 6,200* (1), 6,720* (2), 6,800* (1), 60,000* (1), 60,500* (1), 600,000* (1), 601,730* (2), 603,550* (6), 61,000* (2), 62,700* (2), 64,300* (1), 64,400* (1), 675,000* (3), 7,000* (8), 7,100* (1), 7,337* (2), 7,500* (1), 7,700* (2), 70,000* (4), 72,000* (1), 74,600* (2), 75,000* (1), 76,500* (1), 8,580* (1), 8,600* (1), 80,000* (3), 800,000* (1), 87,000* (1), clan (1), clans (2), divisions (2), eleven* (3), families (2), family (1), million (1), thousand (78), thousand-fold* (1), thousands (41), thousandth (1).

Brown-Driver-Briggs
[FONT=&quot]אֲלַ֑ף[/FONT] [SIZE=+1]noun masculine[/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]1,000[/SIZE] (= Biblical Hebrew II. [FONT=&quot]אֶ֫לֶף[/FONT]); — absolute [FONT=&quot]׳[/FONT][FONT=&quot]א[/FONT] (noun person precedes) Daniel 5:1; noun omitted, emphatic [FONT=&quot]אַלְמָּא[/FONT] Daniel 5:1 the thousand (just mentioned); construct + plural absolute [FONT=&quot]אֶ֫לֶף[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]אֲלָפִ֯ים[/FONT] Daniel 7:10 a thousand thousands (< Qr [FONT=&quot]אַלְפִין[/FONT] K[SUP]§ 51, 2[/SUP]).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
thousandProp, the same as 'eleph; hence (the ox's head being the first letter of the alphabet, and this eventually used as a numeral) a thousand -- thousand.
see HEBREW 'eleph

not the same as used in REV 20, does not mean the something.

Strong's Concordance

chilioi: a thousand

Original Word: χίλιοι, αι, α
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: chilioi
Phonetic Spelling: (khil'-ee-oy)
Short Definition: a thousand
Definition: a thousand.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5507: χίλιοι

χίλιοι, χίλιαι, χίλια, a thousand: 2 Peter 3:8; Revelation 11:3, etc.

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

I believe that I have already answered that question in a previous post. Israel did not recognized Jesus as their Messiah and as far as they are concerned they are still under the law given to Moses, including the sacrificial law. When that antichrist appears, he will make it possible for Israel to rebuild their temple and they will again begin to offer sacrifices according to the law. In the middle of the seven years, the antichrist/beast will cause their sacrifices and offerings to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple. This will cause those in Jerusalem/Judea to flee out into the desert to that place prepared for her by God where Israel will remain during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to end the age (Matt.24:15-21, Rev.12:6,14, 19:11-21).

While that is going on with Israel, the great tribulation saints, who will be Gentile believers, will be present during that last 3 1/2 years and will be persecuted by the beast, many of which who will be beheaded for their testimony of Christ and the word of God and who will not have worshiped him, his image nor received his mark in hands or forehead.

When Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as recorded in Rev.19:11-21, following him out of heaven will be that army riding on white horses, who are those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up, the bride. These, along with the great tribulation saints who are resurrected, will rule with Christ during that millennial period in their immortal and glorified bodies. The woman/Israel and the Gentile great tribulation saints who survive until Christ returns, will repopulate the earth in their mortal bodies during the millennial period.

PLEASE - just tell me about the Millennium passages, not before....will WE sacrifice animals?

............................

Animal Sacrifices in the Millennium?

One of the most embarrassing aspects of Dispensationalism is their insistence that there will be a return to animal sacrifices during the Millennium.

Why I Am Not A Dispensationalist: Animal Sacrifices in the Millennium?

if you can not address this, you have no case.

Ahwatukee · Nov 17, 2016

zone said:

We'll just have to watch and see, won't we. Therefore, when you see on the news that a large number of people are missing and following that a political ruler has made a seven year agreement with Israel, then you will know that I was correct, about everything. And if that doesn't happen, then we will know that you were correct and that everything was symbolic. Let's just keep watching, because the time for the fulfillment of that last seven years and Christ's return are coming very quickly.

Speaking of symbolism, to see the technology for the coming mark, click on the link below. Does that look symbolic to you? The very fact that this chip implant technology even exists is a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word:

Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

zone · Nov 17, 2016

Ahwatukee said:

We'll just have to watch and see, won't we. Therefore, when you see on the news that a large number of people are missing and following that a political ruler has made a seven year agreement with Israel, then you will know that I was correct, about everything. And if that doesn't happen, then we will know that you were correct and that everything was symbolic. Let's just keep watching, because the time for the fulfillment of that last seven years and Christ's return are coming very quickly.

Speaking of symbolism, to see the technology for the coming mark, click on the link below. Does that look symbolic to you? The very fact that this chip implant technology even exists is a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word:

Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

ahahahahahaaaaa.......ya okay.
i'll be left behind I'm sure, since it ain't happening.

what has been fulfilled?

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