what has been fulfilled?

notuptome · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

Sorry to hear that.

Where else would you find the throne of David?

Not really. Christ is seated at the right hand of Jehovah.

Psalm 2:1 ¶ Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 ¶ I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.
10 ¶ Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Mt 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Ps 110:1 « A Psalm of David. » The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

zone · Nov 16, 2016

notuptome said:

if you have read Elizabeth's post(s), you would know that throne is in heaven - now.

zone · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

revelaton mirrors genesis, the chapters in rev are :

on earth
in heaven
on earth
in heaven

etc

circular, all about the same subject, from different angles and using different devices.
it's not easy to see it, but once you do, it's wa-a-a-a-a-ay clearer. and you can't unsee it.
like all the books I rekin

notuptome · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

Believe God there will be a throne of David in Jerusalem and Christ will sit upon it.

Zech 14:9 to the end.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Bladerunner · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

I see where your are going with this,..... at least I tried..... revelation is not symbolic as you and others will soon find out.

I will no longer respond to this thread...it is useless to waste my time on someone who does not want to learn.\

zone · Nov 16, 2016

Bladerunner said:

okay! thanks for participating

zone · Nov 16, 2016

notuptome said:

nope. God is through with earthly Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12
An Unshakable Kingdom
…21The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.” 22Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels 23in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,…

most certainly the first century jews who came into the church as Christians would have completely understood the significance of Hebrews 12.

notuptome · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

Hence the reason you completely miss the thrust of Christ's return to the earth. Jesus comes in the clouds for the church but Jesus comes to the earth to redeem Israel.

Jehovah God will fulfill all His promises to Israel. During the literal Millennial kingdom all the nations of the earth will come up to Jerusalem to worship. Those who do not will see no rain. Zech 14 again. Written to Israel not the church by the way.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

zone · Nov 16, 2016

notuptome said:

please do read this - it's awesome.

The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

The proper interpretation and translation of the last phrase in Galatians 6:16 has become a matter of controversy in the past century or so. Formerly it was not a matter of controversy. With few exceptions, "The Israel of God" was understood as a name for the Church here. [1]

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)

notuptome · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

please do read this - it's awesome.

The Israel of God
(Galatians 6:16)

by Michael Marlowe, Dec. 2004.

14 But far be it from me to boast, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. 16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

The proper interpretation and translation of the last phrase in Galatians 6:16 has become a matter of controversy in the past century or so. Formerly it was not a matter of controversy. With few exceptions, "The Israel of God" was understood as a name for the Church here. [1]

The Israel of God (Galatians 6:16)

No heresy like an old heresy. Eh?

Israel is not the church and the church is not Israel. Never was and never will be.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

zone · Nov 16, 2016

notuptome said:

just awful.

The Lord made it totally clear.

Romans 3
Righteousness through Faith
…28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30since there is One God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.…

oldhermit · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

I hope the outline helped.

eternally-gratefull · Nov 16, 2016

Ughh! I will pass. this is what got us in trouble a few years ago..

PennEd · Nov 16, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Nope. Didn't miss a beat in a several year hiatus.

Elizabeth619 · Nov 16, 2016

Bladerunner said:

You are right in one sense..... Our battle is spiritual. However, it is at this time on earth, mixed with Flesh and Blood. What you do in your flesh and blood depends upon the spiritual battle within you as I stated in another post.

Having said that, take a look back at prophecies of the Bible. were they fulfilled in the spirit only. If they were how did so many people die?????? Was the crucifixion, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ simply a dream or was it real. History tells us it was real. History tells us the Flood was real. History tells us of the many battles that were fought post-flood days were real. The Bible tells us these same stories. If they are spiritual how can they be in History. How can 29 different cultures have a story about the EIGHT (Noah's family) and the flood that consumed a world. I could go on and knock every spiritual story you have out of the air with History and the Bible.

If you would read the Bible literally, I think you will find out that it was divinely created, the written and inspired Words of God in 66 books from 40+ authors over some 2500 years. It contains 1800+ prophecies where some 12-1400 have come true. It is still batting 100%.

Will Jesus ride physically on a White horse to fight evil on the ground.....YES.....Will we be riding along beside him,...YES or at least I hope you are!?

I urge you to reread Daniel 1-12, then Revelations literally. They go hand in hand.Yet, Daniel was written some 300 years before John was ever thought of. Before Jesus Christ entered Jerusalem. In fact, you will find that Daniel 9:25 predicted the EXACTday that Jesus would ride into Jerusalem (Palm Sunday as it is called).

To think that the Bible , the 'WORD of GOD' is only spiritual, a collection of stories, poems, allegories, similes, etc. is nothing short of a denial of Jesus Christ.

Again,,, it is your choice......Choose well.

i never once said the Bible was only spiritual. We are discussing revelation 20 and I mentioned the spiritual warfare and symbolism. I didn't even say all of revelation was "spiritual". Now you've twisted what I've said and claiming I'm denying Christ. You people are quick to condemn others without even halfway understand what the other side is saying.

wanderer6059 · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

[h=1]Hebrews 12:1-2,20-King James Version (KJV)[/h][FONT=&quot]12 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Christ is mentioned more as a mediator in Hebrews than a ruler, He is likened to Melchizedek the priest king, but still more of the intersession.

also right hand culturally was a reference to an heir not a ruler, so if anything Christ is still waiting for the Fathers permission to Take His throne.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[h=1]Hebrews 6King James Version (KJV)[/h][h=1][FONT=&quot]18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]does God still have to keep His promises to Israel?

and again i want to mention this verse,

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
21 [FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.[/FONT]
this happens Before the 1000 year rule, and i'm pretty sure we haven't seen the sinning world totally destroyed by Christ. so can you interpret it in you belief?
[FONT=&quot]
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[/h][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

wanderer6059 · Nov 16, 2016

Elizabeth619 said:

i still would like to know how its interpenetrated as symbolic?

wanderer6059 · Nov 16, 2016

The symbolic language in which previous chapters have been written is here dropped, and certain predictions are made in plain words, though they contain allusions to the Dragon and the Beast, which are symbolic figures. The meaning of the Dragon is here so carefully explained, as “the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan,” that all of symbolism is removed: and the Beast is only indirectly referred to at all.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

The change in style is no doubt due to the change of subject; though the predictions found in this chapter relate to the consequences of the Second Advent, and that event will remove all need of concealment of things future.prophecies of Revelation are future from John’s point of view but that much of the material through chapter 18 has already been largely fulfilled and will be climaxed with the second coming of Christ and a literal millennium.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

The six mentions of “a thousand years” in the passage are sufficient to establish the doctrine as scriptural.the term “thousand” is never used alone anywhere else in the book of Revelation. Where it is used in combination with numbers, as the 12,000 of each tribe of Israel, there is no proof whatever that other than the literal sense is intended, and this is also true in the entire New Testament.

valiant · Nov 16, 2016

wanderer6059 said:

The release of Satan from his imprisonment is found in revelation 9.11.
.

This is describing the CURRENT reign of Christ with His saints. There is no suggestion it is on earth. Indeed the opposite. He reigns with the SOULS of the Christians.

.

The first resurrection was that of Jesus. We share it with Him (eph 2.5-6; col 3.1)

1000 years in Scripture is symbolical of a long period of time. During this period we have been raised with Him

This happened in Revelation 9.1-11.

exactly. Before Christ's second coming.

Of course it is scriptural, just misunderstood. In OT 1000 means a large unidentifiable number.

which means its use to mean a large unidentified number is confirmed.

.

the 144,000 is typology for the people of God, the church, as numbered by God and sealed.

As for the rest of the NT the 1000 years is as one day, and one day as 1000 year, proving it is not a literal time period,

Ahwatukee · Nov 16, 2016

zone said:

Your assessment that the entire book of Revelation is all "symbolic imagery" is your error. I don't "suddenly yank" 1000 years out to be literal, but I consider the context in the literal sense, unless a symbolic interpretation is required. Here in Revelation 20, the words "a thousand years" is used six times. There is nothing in the scripture that would infer that the thousand years is symbolic unless you force it by predetermining it to be. There is also no reason to consult other scriptures regarding a thousand years, when the context demonstrates it as being literal. The context should always be considered first.

Regarding the information in Revelation 20, an angel is literally going to descend from heaven and seize Satan and literally throw him into the literal place called the Abyss. This is the same place that those demonic beings called "Legion" begged Jesus not to send them into (Luke 8:31). It is also the same place where that angel of the Abyss/the beast currently resides. The Abyss is also the place where the unrighteous dead will be resurrected out of to stand before God at the great white throne judgments (Rev.20:11-15)

It is because of your pre-set notion that the entire book of Revelation is symbolic imagery that you err. While it is true that there is symbolism throughout the book, those are obvious. One of the biggest problems that we have regarding the interpretation of Revelation, is interpreting what is meant to be literal as being symbolic.

what has been fulfilled?

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eternally-gratefull

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