What is the salvation process? Believe. Baptize. RECEIVE !

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

It is our duty as Christians to preach the truth. Did Peter use a defeatist doctrine in Acts 2 when 3000 souls were baptized? He convicted them of their sins, they felt godly sorrow and asked "men and bretheren, what shall we do"? He did not say repeat this prayer after me, or accept Christ into your heart, he said "repent and baptized FOR the remission of your sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit" - Acts 2:37-38.

In Acts 3:19, he tells them again to "repent and be converted"

If you can show me one example of this being done in the Bible I can understand it better, if not, then why do it?

GreenNnice · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

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First off, forgive me, feed, titis, too, jandian, too, if anything I've said coming from me, the Lord leads, I hope and pray....

The words I say com from Him, I was never, if you deeply read into my post you questioned, feed, doing anything more than asking others to let the Lord lead. You provide the seed , and, yes, in 'believe' is repenting of your wrongdoings and forever genuinely turning from ways before not of Him.

Just like John 3:16, to 'believe in Him' is a lot more to it than simple belief, usually. The Lord leads it is a personal conversion for everyone, the same rudiments of getting to and keeping faith but the 'walks' from God are individual for all believers, oh, such a beautiful thing

Like it or not, I MUST follow Him and when someone does something like presents a faith that I feel , the Lord leading me, is damaging to seekers thinkimg they can come to Christ like terms that suggest the believer must do some grand grandiose act for conversion, but that is defeatist doctrine at THAT point of the seeker's life.

So, like said before, YOU present the gospel of belief in a simple yet believable'' way and then let the Lord minister to that seeker. Christ saves them, NOT us. We are but a vessel to show them the simple Truth of salvation and the 1st step is believe, and, IF you read deeply into my post above, feed, you can see that that person is being put in the PROCESS of being born anew from Him, this I hope and pray, and, feed, jandian, titis, Jimmy, sinski, TOMMY, I appreciate watching your hearts on here trying to tell others The Way to salvation , just make CERTAIN every word from Him, when you know not what to utter comes from Him

The Lord leads. God bless you, peace to you for your great work, your withstanding of persecution to follow the faith of grace, mercy, Love, given you infinitely, abundantly for your sincere unfailing, unconditional, unyielding servanthood to our God and King

hislastwalk · Apr 26, 2012

as I said in an earlier thread. You are saved by grace THROUGH faith. Anything else is a false gospel.

GreenNnice · Apr 26, 2012

hislastwalk said:

)()()()()()
Yes, it is as you say, hislastwalk. Only............
Grace and blessings to you for your good words, God bless you, young brother, for your goodness of Him constantly told others, as the Lord leads and answers your prayers, from your listening to His still small voice inside you, keeping you, comforting you, and, by His word, and, experiences presented your life, teaching you, revealing you great and mighty things for your life, now, and, as you live and walk in Him

Always speak from Him, always KNoW His joy overflows and drowns all yearnings of the Enemy to cause sin to destroy your life . Keep your walk with Him, let it outlast always the Enemy walking beside. Keep him behind you and Him from ever leaving you .

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

hislastwalk said:

No is arguing that we are not saved by grace through faith. The disagreement is defining faith. Must one repent of sin in order to have the faith, or is it simply a belief that is not affected no matter how you live?

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

GreenNnice said:

=======
First off, forgive me, feed, titis, too, jandian, too, if anything I've said coming from me, the Lord leads, I hope and pray....

The words I say com from Him, I was never, if you deeply read into my post you questioned, feed, doing anything more than asking others to let the Lord lead. You provide the seed , and, yes, in 'believe' is repenting of your wrongdoings and forever genuinely turning from ways before not of Him.

Just like John 3:16, to 'believe in Him' is a lot more to it than simple belief, usually. The Lord leads it is a personal conversion for everyone, the same rudiments of getting to and keeping faith but the 'walks' from God are individual for all believers, oh, such a beautiful thing

Like it or not, I MUST follow Him and when someone does something like presents a faith that I feel , the Lord leading me, is damaging to seekers thinkimg they can come to Christ like terms that suggest the believer must do some grand grandiose act for conversion, but that is defeatist doctrine at THAT point of the seeker's life.

So, like said before, YOU present the gospel of belief in a simple yet believable'' way and then let the Lord minister to that seeker. Christ saves them, NOT us. We are but a vessel to show them the simple Truth of salvation and the 1st step is believe, and, IF you read deeply into my post above, feed, you can see that that person is being put in the PROCESS of being born anew from Him, this I hope and pray, and, feed, jandian, titis, Jimmy, sinski, TOMMY, I appreciate watching your hearts on here trying to tell others The Way to salvation , just make CERTAIN every word from Him, when you know not what to utter comes from Him

The Lord leads. God bless you, peace to you for your great work, your withstanding of persecution to follow the faith of grace, mercy, Love, given you infinitely, abundantly for your sincere unfailing, unconditional, unyielding servanthood to our God and King

Green I have had alot of disagreements on here with many. But even if I dont agree with what you say in some posts, your posts are always pleasant to read. Thank you for you example in maintaining a loving attitude even when discussing things we may not agree

I hope I an reflect that same attitude towards others.

hislastwalk · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

repentance is just a positive reaction to His forgiveness.

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

hislastwalk said:

Show me the passage for that and I will believe it.

Because if "repentance is a positive reaction to His forgiveness" the Bible says this positive reaction is essential to being saved:

Luke 13:3 - repent (have a positive reaction?)or ye shall all likewise perish

II Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (all should have a positive reaction or perish?)

and if that's true, then why did Paul urge the Corinthian church to repent from the sins they were currently in, and told them that by reading his letter it produced in them "godly sorrow which leads to repentance" and "repentance UNTO salvation"?

II Corinthians 7:10: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

"to salvation" NOT "because of" salvation. Repentance must take place first, yet it never ends throughout our lives, if we sin, we can repent and be forgiven. Yet without repentance their is no forgiveness:

Hebrews 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

hislastwalk · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

*shakes head* repentance just means changing the way you think. It doesn't save you. And you twisted my words. It's the goodness of God that makes you wanna repent. You don't repent to be forgiven, you repent because you're forgiven. and you just used Hebrews 10:26 out of context. Paul is comparing Old Covenant mindsets to New Covenant mindsets. You don't repent to be saved, that would contradict the whole gospel.

cfultz3 · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

Show me the passage for that and I will believe it.

Because if "repentance is a positive reaction to His forgiveness" the Bible says this positive reaction is essential to being saved:

Luke 13:3 - repent (have a positive reaction?)or ye shall all likewise perish

II Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (all should have a positive reaction or perish?)

and if that's true, then why did Paul urge the Corinthian church to repent from the sins they were currently in, and told them that by reading his letter it produced in them "godly sorrow which leads to repentance" and "repentance UNTO salvation"?

II Corinthians 7:10: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

"to salvation" NOT "because of" salvation. Repentance must take place first, yet it never ends throughout our lives, if we sin, we can repent and be forgiven. Yet without repentance their is no forgiveness:

Hebrews 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

If you give a negative reaction to forgiveness than you do not repent. Perhaps you are reading too much into what he is saying. He is saying repentance is a postive reaction on our part when we accept forgiveness from God.

hislastwalk · Apr 26, 2012

cfultz got it on the nail

hislastwalk · Apr 26, 2012

and as my friend quoted earlier..

"The gospel is offensive simply because it lets you in on the secret that you have no part to play in this great salvation. It tells you that all those tickets you bought with your good works to win the lottery of God's good graces were a waste, and that all that blood, sweat, and tears you spent trying to please God didn't amount to the hill of holy beans you thought it would amount to.

But not to fret, after the offense wears down a bit, it is followed by intense joy. A joyous hilarity that sings melodies of a God who won this salvation singlehandedly for us by a one-way ticket to a bloodied cross. It provokes thanksgiving because it relays the message that God was pleased with us all along, whether we tried to please Him or not." -from Christian Erickson. ;D

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

hislastwalk said:

No it doesn't, it means a change of mind that leads to a change of lifestyle. Repentacne is seen through obedience:
The Lord defined it best:
Matthew 21:28: ¶But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
Matthew 21:29: He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
Matthew 21:30: And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
Matthew 21:31: Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Could the first have been said to repent if he never "went"? No. His repentance was shown in that he "went" i.e. OBEYED

Heb 5:9 and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto ALL THAT OBEY HIM.

Wow and which words did I twist?
Acts 2:38 "what shall we do"? "REPENT and be baptized for the remission of your sins.." Remission = forgiveness
Repentance alone does not save you, you must also first have faith, then choose to follow Christ(repent) and be baptized as commanded to the nonchristians in Acts 2. Then we must live a faithful life REv 2:10.

Again show me the passage.

Luke 13:3 "repent OR ye shall all likewise perish". Does this say that if they did not repent they would not be saved? IF they did not repent they would perish, if they did they would not perish, how can repentance not save?

The context of Heb 10:26 is SIN, as mentioned in verse 25, forsaking the assembling. Second, Hebrews is showing superiority of Christ and the New Covenant compared to Moses and the Law. This does not take away the message of verse 26.

"FOR IF we (Christians) sin willfully after coming to the knowledge of the truth(this shows they knew the Lord, for only he is truth) then their remains no more sacrifice FOR sins (what is the only valid sacrifice for sins? HE made it clear to them that is was not through the blood of bulls and goats in chapter 9)
This means that unrepentant sinners are not forgiven unless they repent. If he is not talking about Christ's sacrifice, then what sacrifice is he speaking of?
IF he is speaking of animal sacrifice, then that implies that if they did not sin willfully after coming to the knowledge of the truth, then there WOULD remain a sacrifice for their sins.
And if that sacrifice is animal sacrifice, then he just defeated everything he said about the law of Moses no longer being valid. That does not make any sense at all.

ACTS 2:38, II COR 7, Both say repentance is UNTo or to salvation, the word "for" in acts 2:38, and the word "to" II COr 7, both are the same greek word that means "to, toward, for, into," never does it mean "because of" as some try to make it mean, a simple word study will show this.

Tombo · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

Romans 5:6-11 "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one would scacely die for a righteous person- though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die- but God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by His life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Tom

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

cfultz3 said:

I know, and I am saying we have no forgiveness until we submit to HIs will, and that means repenting and being baptized along with faith of course. This is what the Bible says.

Acts 2:38 should be our guide to how a non Christian was saved. The Bible does say we are saved by faith without mentioning repentance, it also says we are saved by hope, without mentioning faith or repentance. it says we are saved by confession etc.

Peter's sermon in Acts 2 is what brought "godly sorrow" to the hearts of the hearers. That godly sorrow made them to want to be made right with God, it lead them to repentance. Their obedience was seen by being baptized INTO Christ, and leaving the law of Moses. If they had not been baptized or continued in the Law even if they believed, it would not have saved them, because they changed not.

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

Tombo said:

This are great, but Romans was written to Christians, they were already members of the Lord's church. This is not explaining to them how to be saved,they were already saved. They had already repented and been baptized see Rom 6:3-f. They were already buried into Christ, to walk in newness of life.

This is not where we go to find out how to be saved, for this look at what non Christians were commanded:
Acts 2:37-38, - the Jews
Acts 8:1-25 - Samaria and Simon the Sorcerer
Acts 8:26-39 - the Eunuch
the book of Acts - Lydia, the Philippian Jailor, all these were told to be baptized into Christ, all were preached the message of repentance and forgiveness.

Never was any of them told to recite the sinners prayer, or just believe and your saved, or just accept Christ in your hearts, not one.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 26, 2012

The church today is no different than the jews. we make the same mistakes.

They took Circumcision ( a command, a demand, and a requirement By God to recieve the promises) as a requirement for salvation. Not Gods blessings on earth. They could not get it that it was the work of God and his hands which spiritually circumcised (cleansed) them and made them acceptable to God

Water baptism is the churches circumcision.

It is the HS who baptises us into Christs death and burial Rom 6) and his body (1 cor 12) and it was prophesied by John the baptist (he will baptise with HS and fire.

Why do we want to replace the work of God, with the work of man.

The holy men of God could not remove sin or cleanse anyone by sacrifice in the old covenant. Why, because they also needed saved. so why do we think the holy men of God in the new covenant would be any more powerful to cleanse us of our sin? when they need it also.

It saddens me that we make the same mistakes of our fathers.

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

yes and likewise, our obedience to His will does the same, which requires baptism, repentance, faith, etc.
Circumsion was a literal cutting away of the flesh, symbolic for the spritual nature today when we separate from the flesh (the old man) that is buried and the new man rised to walk in spritual life, through baptism - Rom 6.

agreed, in the sense I said above. It is a spiritual separation from the flesh Yet as we have discussed before, it is not a work of man. It is God who:
buries us into Christ, adds us to the Lords church, washes away our sins, through our obedience in humbling ourselves and being baptized.
Namaan in II KI 5 could not understand why he had to dip in the water 7 times to cleans his leoprsy. He did it, and was cleansed. So was it the water in the Jordon that cleansed him, or his obedience to God after he humbled himself? Of course it was God.
It is the same for us, we are commanded (imperative acts 2:38) to be baptized. It washes away our sins by putting us in contace with the blood of Christ - Acts 22:16.
The sprit, the water, and blood, all agree in one" I Jn 5:8.

Now we can have the same attitude as Naaman about the water, yet this is how God chose for us to be washed.
It is the water that saves us? NO. It is our obedience to Christ that saves us, and gives us a good conscience toward God knowing we have done what is commanded. and why Peter could write "baptism does also now save us". - I Pet 3:21.

Yes but the baptism of HS is not promised to us, it for the Apostles and the Gentiles of Acts 10. It is when the Spirit fell on the Apostles and Cornelius without the laying on of hands.

How can something God commanded be the work of men?

Me to

Tombo · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

How does it say we are saved, in our sins, or becaue we repented??? Read it carefully.
Romans 5:6-11 "For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one would scacely die for a righteous person- though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die- but God shows His love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by His blood, much more shall we be saved by Him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by His life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation."

Tom

You need to let God be God and stop trying to work for your salvation. You will never be able to stand before Almighty God and say, "look how well I've repented Lord, surely you must let me into your heaven, I've been so good." He will say He never knew you, you who profane the sacrifice of my Son by your "good" works!!!!

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

Tombo said:

We are saved by the blood of Christ. Yet because you cant find the word "repented" in a message written to Christian does that mean its not implied?

Does Paul need to go over all the process of salvation in order to mention faith? True faith covers the obedience one encountered upon first hearing the gospel message. At what was that message before they were Christians?
Christ died for you, you are in sin, repent and baptized is the cure. Now I ask you to read Acts 2 very carefully.

What about this:
Romans 8:24: For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Says nothing of faith, only hope, does that mean we are saved by hope alone? No faith is implied, and directly mentioned in the context of Romans, so is baptism and repentance.
Please read Romans and keep in mind this was a letter to Christians, not unbelievers.

Yea this is the same old fluff you all go to. Obedience to God is not a work, it is your duty as a Christan:
Luke 17:10: So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
If you refuse to do your duty, then you face the consequences. If you think your duty is a work then I guess you need to study on works.

Straw man argument, no one ever said anything like this.
In fact, the passage above tells me that attitude to have in that day - Lk 17:10

No one can stand with that kind of attitude, yet becoming dead to sin, repenting, being baptized are all commands that do not make us high minded, nor feel we are earning anything. Just doing what God said.

What is the salvation process? Believe. Baptize. RECEIVE !

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