What is the salvation process? Believe. Baptize. RECEIVE !

feedm3 · Apr 23, 2012

what is Genuine faith?
If your not saved unless you have Genuine faith what makes your faith Genuine?

John 3:36 tells us whosoever believes is saved, but whosoever disobeys the son will find God's wrath.
Heb 5:9 "and being made perfect he became the author of eternal salvation unto all that ____________ Him?????

Fill in the blank and you have your answer.

warning this usually turns into a 1000 page thread lol

jimmydiggs · Apr 23, 2012

feedm3 said:

See my post here:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ur-believe-lordship-salvation.html#post679444 <--- click

John 6:36
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them

Where is the word "obey"?

It says if you reject the Son (do not believe) then God's wrath remains on you.

Additionally, have you disobeyed God today?

I think maybe you misunderstand what I have said.

Hebrews 5:9 attests to what I've said. Works are something that come as a result of Salvation. Works are not a requirement.m IF you are saved, you will "work".

AnandaHya · Apr 23, 2012

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeO7igK2Rc&feature=related[/video]

you get salvation when GOD brings you to godly sorrow and repentance. When GOD convicts you of your sins and gives you Faith to believe upon Jesus as Your LORD and Savior. Then God seals you with His Holy Spirit and washes you clean of your sins. only then do you have the means to be truly obedient. Only after God has made you a new creation and you are born again are you a babe learning to drink the milk of God's pure words and teachings. then you grow and diligently add to your faith and learn to eat meat of discernment and become rooted in His teachings. After you are mature God entrusts you with His work.

too often people put babes to work like spiritual sweat shops and wonder when they come back wounded. what happened to the child labor laws?

feedm3 · Apr 23, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

See my post here:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ur-believe-lordship-salvation.html#post679444 <--- click

Okay I will take a look in bit.

Your translation is off. The ASV renders the word correctly. NOt becuae I am some Greek Scholar but because if you use a concordance you can see how the word is used elsewhere.

John 3:36: <3588><3588>He that believeth<4100> on<1519> the Son<3588><5207> hath<2192> everlasting<166> life<2222>: and<1161> he that believeth not<544> the Son<3588><5207> shall<3700> not<3756> see<3700> life<2222>; but<235> the wrath<3588><3709> of God<3588><2316> abideth<3306> on<1909> him<846>.

The ASV "he who obeys not the son....."

As you can see the two time the word believed is used, they are different words as you can see by the strongs numbers:

The first: 04100:
4100 pisteuo pist-yoo'-o from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. see GREEK for 4102

The secnod: 544 apeitheo ap-i-theh'-o from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. see GREEK for 545

The words for reject, disbelieve, disobey, disobedience are synonymous. Which shows us disbelief and disobedience are the same. Just as Christ showed in His teaching of the unfaithful servant:

But even if the words were the same, we have to let the Bible define what belief is. Is belief just a thought or does it require obedience: answer below:

Luke 12:43: Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. (he is a servant)
Luke 12:44: Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
Luke 12:45: But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to (does not think his Lord is returning soon so he lives in sin)beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
Luke 12:46: The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.Why was he Cast with the unbelievers? Because he lived as one. His belief he had a Lord did not save him. Yet his belief that is Lord was not coming soon, so he lived in sin, Condemned him.
Again showing disobedience is the same as unbelief.

That is beside the point, I do not teach anyone that we are to flawless, for only Christ is. This is why God has granted us repentance. Just as Simon the Sorcerer in Acts 8 sinned immediately after getting baptized, and was told to repent. If he did not repent, he would have remained "in a gall of bitterness" and "heart not right with God".
We sin, we repent. That is part of obedience.

Yes but if obedience does not save, yet without it we are condemned, then does it not play a role salvation? How can we say it is not essential. If am misunderstanding you I apologize.

feedm3 · Apr 23, 2012

AnandaHya said:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFeO7igK2Rc&feature=related[/video]

But yet the verse that tells us this tells us that "godly sorrow worketh repentance UNTO salvation"
Unto from eis
Meaning "toward"

If we truly repent we will want to know just as the Jews did in Acts what we need to do to be made right with God.
As Peter repled "Repent and be baptized". So many other passages tell us this very clearly. Baptism is not a good deed, nor a mertiouus work. It is what God requires, personally I feel it has to do with humility, just as God commanded Namman in II KINGS 5, to be dipped 7 times in the Jordon to be cured of his leprosy. Naaman almost did not do it becuae he did not understand why he would have to.
But was it the water in the Jordon that cured his disease, or was it his obedience to God.
Of course it was his obedience, the Jordon river is just a river.
To cure the disease of sin Christ shed his blood, in order to contact that blood we must be immersed into Christ:
Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling upon the name of the Lord.

In fact I believe the account of Naaman is a warning to those to trust God and do what he says.

GreenNnice · Apr 24, 2012

AnandaHya said:

Surrender all, Ana , nice video, dear , precious Whitney Houston, that girl is in Heaven, praise God. She knew Him that video tells me.

Obedience to Him, my Christ peeps, is so simple and rewarding and it is true life forevermore for you

Only believe. Ahhh, but, green, there is so much more embodied in that word, 'believe.'

There is, but that is NOT for you to do more than point others to Christ. He will show them true belief.

You can talk about true repentance, faith, salvation, lordship salvation, , etc, but TRUE SALVATION ( how's that apple?) comes from a life of obedience LIVED in Jesus Christ. Sure, grace, sure, mercy, is all a part of it but the embodiment of true salvation simply is life lived as The Lord leads....

It all starts ( and ends) with Him.

Genuine this, lordship that, repentance this, bondage in sin that, PTOOEY! It all begins and ends with a life embraced in obeying Christ's plan for your life.

Why do some of you choose to complicate God's Love for us through our simple obedience to Him.

Broken down, in its purest form, just get up daily and live your life with knowing He is your everything. The other stuff, baptism water this, baptism Spirit that, true repentance this, lordship salvation that, salvation this, bondage in sin that, will be revealed to you as you WALK with Him in a relationship. Just don't reject His revealed knowledge to you, that is a form of disobedience.

Quit complicating the beautiful easiness of living a life in Him. Don't worry about anything because....

He will show you everything for you, tombo, for you, jimmy, for you, feed, for you, ana, for you, cfultz, for you, crossfyre. Just believe He will and OBEY !

LET The Lord lead, don't you lordship someone else's life. The Lord will lead! Christ judges people's obedience with soooo much infinite grace and mercy, EVERY morning , new mercies, they are NEW every morning.

Don't live your life wrapped up in the complexities of lordship salvation, true repentance, just follow Him for YOUR life and it will include much time likely bringing others to the saving grace of Christ. Much fruit , much reward, much inheritance, in Heaven .

feedm3 · Apr 24, 2012

GreenNnice said:

You green IF it was that simple, we need no warnings. My friend it's not. The Lord's will is reveled to us all through his word, it is the same for us all. We might encounter different things in our lives, we might come from different backgrounds, struggle with different things, yet we are to handle these thing according to HIS will.

This is a kind of "to each his own" way of thinking, but the Bible does not teach this. "repentance this, Baptism that", this is not the way the Bible speaks on these subjects. The Bible has no careless to each it's own, whats works for you might not work with me, kind of tone. God's message to us is serious, and God expects to take Him seriously. I am NOT saying you do not take him seriously, but just giving my understanding.

The Love of Christ is incomprehensible, yet there are some things His love will not do. It will not allow us to bypass his will, in faith, repentance, obedience. Many teach a kind of "work out your own salvation" way of thinking yet they always seem to leave out the most important waring in that passage, "with fear and trembling".

Too many warning telling us to "take heed lest ye fall", "examine yourself, prove you are in the faith", "their is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end of the ways of death". We cannot depend on ourselves by simply believing, we must take the word of God and know only thorugh it can we be "reproved, rebuked, and exhorted", why? "so the man of God may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works". - II Tim 3:15-f., pro 14:12.

As Paul said and gave the reason for why He preached, "warning everyman, teaching everyman in all wisdom that we may present everyman perfect in Christ" Col 1:28.

This why we are commanded to "study to shew thyself approved unto God...handling the right the word of God.

"repent or ye shall all likewise perish", "in times of ignorance God winked at but now commandment all men everywhere to repent", "God is not slack concerning His promise, but is long suffering to usward, not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance, - Lk 13:3; II Pet 3:9. These are not to be taken lightly.

You may not take them lightly at all, but that was the feeling I got from your post. We cannot lead anyone to God's grace unless we "declare the whole counsel of God" That means his love, as well as his warnings.

GreenNnice · Apr 24, 2012

The Lord leads, and, yes, it is as you say , by reading God's Word His Truth is revealed, don't think I am saying , don't pray, thank, praise, God in Spirit and Truth, that is a 'given' of walking with Him, .

All the obedience ways of the salvation process begin with repenting of our sins and believing in Christ. From there, let The Lord lead you to all Truth , walk with Him . It is a personal relationship that Christ desires, but, for some, after accepting Christ, they need time to listen to Christ's next prompt, before they are ready for more growth in the salvation process.

Fed, your words ran through me like water today, thank you (Thank you, Lord

). God will bless you for using that ability to refresh others.

Come Holy Spirit, I need you.
Come, Holy Spirit, I pray.

Come, Holy Spirit, I love you.
Come in thy own special way.

He is Looooord.
He is Loooord.

He has risen from the dead and He is Lord.

Every knee shalll bow, every tongue confesssss, that Jesus Christ is Lord

enochson · Apr 24, 2012

Hog wash! It's seems to me many here are cluess to what happean in god's salvation them. It's not your salavation of you by some work.

GreenNnice · Apr 24, 2012

enochson said:

======
What work? Try changing the 'k' to a 'd.'

$alvation and fullness of blessing is given by one word: believe. Believe in Him . John 3:16

The way to eternal life is through believing in God's Son, who FINISHED things with death on a cross.

Believe. Only believe. That is smallest measure of faith one can be seeded. Just believe.

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever (anyone) BELIEVES in Me shall not perish but have everlasting life.

___________
There is no hogwash in Christ's chosen plan for mankind , ALL of mankind can believably easily become His.

Say this prayer, please, now, friend(s) if you want Christ your Saviour and are ready to repent and will believe sincerely in Him to lead your earthly life forevermore: ”Dear Lord, I am a sinner, I know my past, I know I do not EVER NEVER EVER NEVER want to go back to that life again, I turn from it,, Lord, I believe in you, your Son having died on The cross and your dying for my sins, your omnipotent power to forgive me all my past sins. I accept you as my Lord and Saviour. I will follow you the rest of my life on Earth, I so want You to lead my life. So do, Lord, so do, I so accept You. Lord, thank you for saving me with your grace. I will ALWAYS BELIEVE in your goodness for me and always be repentant of all my sins that I have not yet done. Thank you for your finished work on the cross. I will never leave you, Lord, please keep me with you. Amen.”

Thank Him. Praise Him. Worship Him in song singing and, sure, dancing before The Lord is quite alright . Jubilee ! Jubileeee! YOU have chosen Him and.....
now, you are SAVED.

YOU, my brother or sister in Christ, have salvation, continue to follow Him and listen to His will for your life. Pray, read tne Word for understanding Him more and more, and, read the gospel, and practice bearing fruit, by telling others the 'Good News' you have just received. Lastly, for your life, it is different now (even if you may not feel different,), for you are CHANGED, newly created, born again.

So, practice love, kindness, peace, patience, humility, to all.

God bless you, you are truly blessed too, salvation is truly yours for your faith in Him .Pray for people to come to you, from in a church like a respected elder or friend you know who is already living a life of Him, on c.c., whomever He leads to you. And, get into His Word, pray for how to learn, above all else, KNOW that you are going to have The Enemy attack you more now but He (God) who is now in you is greater than he (Satan, the Enemy) who is in the world.

Be strong, little one, find your strength in Him.
Christ will show you great things of Him now, in His timing, it will be His timing to grow your faith , as you grow in obedience to Him. God is so good

GreenNnice · Apr 25, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

________
Believing in Him brings salvation, immediately, and, yes, a truly repentant heart does matter, so, do other things, as the Lord leads that individual newfound believer.

But belief in Christ's work is alll needed. John 3:16

True repentance brings true righteousness . That is easily received from our just father God in Heaven, jimmy

1 John 1:9 IF we confess our sins, He ( God) is faithful and just to forgive us of ONE of our sins and cleanse--WAIT, that's not right. Ok, here we go, try this again, IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins ( that means ALL our sins) and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This is how the sinner initially gets saved, but, jimmy, the sinner STAYS saved in believing He is the clay that potter will, mold, shape, form, ALL through the rest of that saved sinner's life.

jandian · Apr 25, 2012

James 2

19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[f] 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[g] And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

feedm3 · Apr 25, 2012

jandian said:

its funny how you need not to say any words just the scriptures to prove a point. The problem comes when folks start trying to change the words to mean something else. Yet in these passages, the message is clear: "not by faith only". The one time the words "faith only" are mentioned in the Bible, and it tells us were not justified by it alone. I wonder why so many people fight against what the scriptures plainly teach?

Skinski7 · Apr 25, 2012

feedm3 said:

Because they esteem the teachings of men above the plain teachings of Jesus Christ.

A car needs a driver.

A car needs gas.

A car need wheels.

A car needs a transmission.

A car needs a gearbox.

A car needs an engine.

It is true to say that "fill the car with gas and you'll be able to go from point A to point B." Yet without a driver or an engine that statement does not apply.

It is the same with John 3:16. It is true that you must believe to be saved. Yet there is a whole lot more scripture which defines what true belief is and it is not the belief of demons.

Jas_2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

feedm3 · Apr 25, 2012

Skinski7 said:

Because they esteem the teachings of men above the plain teachings of Jesus Christ.

A car needs a driver.

A car needs gas.

A car need wheels.

A car needs a transmission.

A car needs a gearbox.

A car needs an engine.

It is true to say that "fill the car with gas and you'll be able to go from point A to point B." Yet without a driver or an engine that statement does not apply.

It is the same with John 3:16. It is true that you must believe to be saved. Yet there is a whole lot more scripture which defines what true belief is and it is not the belief of demons.

Jas_2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Thats a great illustration. Thanks

titus211 · Apr 25, 2012

jimmydiggs said:

Jesus said REPENT or perish (Luke 13) and his repents meant stop sinning!!! Notice that false teacher go for believe, but the devils believe, it is about FAITH W/O WORKS is DEAD!!! He is coming to REWARD us according to our WORKS!!! Be doers and not hearers only!!!

GreenNnice · Apr 25, 2012

titus211 said:

____(((____
Feed, titus, do you have to repent now of your unbelief that The Lord can not bring others to Christ with a simple message of faith to 'believe'?

Let the Lord lead, just be a clean vessel, be very careful of the judgmentalism shown to me, for I am His. The Spirit will speak to you, I am saddened to have to say this but your persecution of me I feel leaves your Spirit with groanings now?
I forgive you and pray others reading my simple 'believe' message not to stumble now, for that would then be better for you both to have a big ball of lead hung arou d your neck and you flung yourselves then into the sea

Did you not read carefully every post I put ? My salvation is secure in my Christ.

Why do I have to speak like Jesus now, sinski, feed, TOMMY, jimmy, READdeepintomyPOSTS and your Spirits of Him.will snow you my heart for the lost is so great.

I want Jesus to find them. Can't you believe Christ will help their unbelief ?

Brothers, Christ bros, I beggeth you to read deeply into my words in tne post Feed called me out on, especially, I am simply calling out to all to present your lordship this, genuine that, true this, whatever else said to those at your CHURCH, where seekers and babes can fully understand the salvation process.
Am I wrong to say this, I don't know, I pray not, but obedience points within 'the process' make others feel defeated does not seem right.

C.S. Lewis was saved in an instant with receiving of the Holy Spirit, apart from his actual time he first elected to choose Christ into his life. PLANT THE SEED of belief and let the Lord sprout the fruit of that belief. What, He can't do that? Yes, He can and a seeker's earnestness desire to change their life will bring His power upon .

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

GreenNnice said:

I never said anything like that green. This is an old trick, act as if I say someone must obey means the Lord has failed them if they do not. Sorry but thats wrong, it is us who forsake the Lord and His sacrifice he made when we decide to live in sin.
What does it mean to believe green? Is it just merly believing that Christ lived and died for my sins? Because if you let the Bible define belief, it is synomus with obey.
We do fall, we fail him, and yet He continues to show us mercy and love through our ability to repent and confess our sins, and conitinue to walk in the light, even though we deserve the pentialy for sin - death - Rom 6:26.
Yet if we choose not do take advantage of what He offers, that is our own fault, not his. It is our failure, not the Lord's.
II Corinthians 6:1: We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

If believing was all thats needed, then this warning is meaningless, I don't read of the Corinthians having a problem with atheism, but common everyday sin, that would hinder them from the grace fo God, Just as paul also warned the Gal church, that if they returned to the Law of Moses it was sin, and that would make them "fall from grace".

Hebrews 10:26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I am sorry you feel persecuted, I really don't see how that's so. It seems if one does not agree with you words you feel you are being persecuted, unless your referring to something someone else has said.
I have only told you what the Bible says, not anything I have come up with:
Galatians 4:16: Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

I don't buy what "pastors" teach at church, I read and study the Bible for myself.

Matthew 7:21: ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Christ is tellling us here that there is more to just saying "Lord, Lord", confessing a faith in Him, but there is a will that must be done and it cannot be simply believing considering these do believe, but failed in his will

Matthew 7:22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
An unbeleiver would not have been able to cast out devils, prophesy, or would not have done any wonderful works, these are "beleivers" yet they failed in doing God's will. "be ye separte" "dead to sin", "for this is the will of God that ye abstain from fornication", - II Cor 6:17; Rom 6:3-f.

I Thessalonians 4:3: For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

I Thessalonians 5:22: Abstain from all appearance of evil.

I Peter 2:11:
Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;

Galatians 5:4: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.Matthew 7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Awful words to hear, yet this is here for a reason, it is a warning, we can choose to listen to it, as well as the other scriptures that warn of the same, or we can focus ONLY on love and belief and trust that will get us to heaven by itself, if that's your choice, I hope seriously that your right. But as for me, I cannot ignore these passages.

I cannot base my salvation on a man that is not even mentioned in scripture. If funny to me, if one says someone is going to hell, then most will say "you have no right to judge", "you made you the judge?" or "Only God knows that". Yet if someone says some is saved and in heaven, everyone fine with that. Is it not still a judgement only God knows?
People hear what they want, and dismiss what they dont like. Not accusing you of that just saying.

feedm3 · Apr 26, 2012

Belief is the first step, yet alone it will not save. The Lord does "sprout the fruit of that belief" Green, through our adherence to his word, his will, his commands.

I Corinthians 3:6: I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

I Corinthians 3:7: So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Colossians 2:19: And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

How does God give increase??
II Timothy 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable ------>for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
II Timothy 3:17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The word "perfect" means "complete", "mature", that is not possiable by beleif alone. You know why, because the Hebrew writer said so when he told the Hebrew Christians that they were not "full of age" ----same greek word in II Tim 3 rendered "perfect" Gr. word Telios,

Hebrews 5:12: For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Hebrews 5:13: For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Hebrews 5:14: But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

If we are not mature, we can be easily deceived by sin, false doctrines and more:
Hebrews 5:9: And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

GreenNnice · Apr 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

______
To 'believe' in Christ is for a believer to plant in the heart of someone who has not elected to choose Christ into their life. Belief, repent, faith, all speak into believe and, yes, I've led a few to Christ, Lord leading, and the Spirit, I am confident, has uttereth in me all the harvest needs to have heard to 'believe' and be saved. Of course, when one believes in Him the old goes gone and it must be eradicated through the art of repehtance, asking God for forgiveness, and, no, I have never felt persecuted for trying to say simple words to lead unbelievers to Christ. As I remember, this is a first , 'course,, I never felt the Spirit prompting me to flat-out give others a prayer until I read how hard Jimmy, sinski, TOMMY, make it seem for an unbeliever to make it into His arms.

Regardless of how you believe the salvation process to work, it is not our duty to bring defeatist doctrine (true or not true) to an unbeliever's decision to follow Jesus.

Let Jesus minister to them after telling them that it is easy to have Jesus in your heart: Repent of your past, genuinely want to change and ask God to forgive your past sins, , and, sincerely accept His forgiveness, grace , mercy, turn from what you were doing that is sin as the Lord shows you, and, be ready to accept His Holy Spirit.

Recite to them Proverbs 3: 5-6 , 1 John 1:9 and Ephesians 2: 8,9 , and, give them a Bible or website to get more into the word and end with John 3:16 and then tell them to say after you:

Dear Lord, Thank you for dying for my sins. Jesus, thank you for your death on the cross an for forgiving all my past sins. Please teach me Thy ways so I know how to refuse sin. I accept your grace and mercy and Love with humble thanks. I choose to follow you forevermore.”

Then sing a song with them, and, pray for God's Holy Spirit to change them more and more in the process of salvation being thickened. The Lord leads

I have decided to follow Jesus. I have decided to follow Jesus. I have decided to follow Jesus. No turning back. No turning back.

The world behind me. The cross before me.
The world behind me. The cross before me.
The world behind me. The cross before me. No turning back. No turning back.

Can't the message of Christ be so simple for someone commencing the life-changing act of their natural born life ? Let's follow the great commission.

Believe on Him, yes, feed, there is sooo much encompassed in that very word, 'believe.' verily, verily, the power of God is so great .

What is the salvation process? Believe. Baptize. RECEIVE !

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