What is your BEST PROOF for a pre-trib Rapture?

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Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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None of this is evidence for pre-trib. I am not asking for a ride on the pre-trib highway of circular reasoning. I am asking for the on-ramp. Where do you come up with pre-trib....from scripture... in the first place.
Your claim above is your error! Because you do indeed need to take a ride on the circular highway (bring in the all related scriptures) in order to come to a right conclusion. That God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place prior to the Lord returning to the earth and that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, would demonstrate that we cannot go through that time of wrath and therefore the Lord's promise of gathering us from the earth must take place prior to said wrath. You're not putting two and two together.

Also, as I continue to point out, those who believe that the church is going to be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, have not understood the severity of that wrath, that by the time that it is over, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. It is also important to understand that God's wrath was already poured out upon Jeseus, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe in His Son. This is some more of that circular highway stuff that you need to include in your eschatology.

Why shouldn't I take a common-sense approach that if Jesus wrote about His parousia (coming) and Paul wrote about it, that they are talking about the same thing?
Look at these passages. I f you look at Matthew 24:30-31 in context, Christ's parousia happens after the great tribulation. If you read I Thessalonians 4:16-17 in context, it happens at Christ's parousia. Paul refers to the coming of our Lord Jesus CHrist and our gathering unto him in II Thess. 2:1, which pre-tribbers typically take to refer to the rapture. But Matthew 24:30-31 sets the gathering at the parousia.[/quote]

Parousia is just a word! You are trying to pigeonhole this word to refer to a specific event, while at the same time ignoring that circular highway stuff. In short, you can't see the trees for the forest.

While you are trying to convince me that the our gathering takes place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you ignore the fact that scripture also says that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. In essence, you adopt one part of scripture and then sweep the information under the rug by creating weak apologetics in support of your claim.

If you assume pretrib and make this refer to two different comings of Christ, two different gatherings of the church and/or elect, and eisegete that into the text, then you can read it that way. Notice that other scripture uses 'elect' in reference to the church. The problem is this is that it is not reason to assume two second comings of Christ or two 'gatherings' of the elect.


The gathering of the church = Jesus descends from heaven, the dead in Christ rise first and then the living are changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. At that point and according to John 14:1-3, Jesus then takes the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. At this point, Jesus does not return to the earth, but appears only to gather His church.

Second Coming = Jesus, along with the church and the angels, descends to the earth to strike down the nations who will be gathered against Him at Armageddon. It is at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire and when Satan is locked up in the Abyss. This is also the time when the Lord will establish His millennial kingdom.

The end of Revelation tells of the New Jerusalem descending out of heaven after the 1000 years. Christ went to prepare a place for us. Trying to make John 14:1-3 out as proof of pre-trib isn't work when there are other scenarios in scripture that fulfill it.
First of all, the new Jerusalem is never mentioned as those places that Jesus went to prepare for us. I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm just saying that the scripture does not state that those places that the Lord went to prepare for us as referring to the new Jerusalem. It's implied by some believers. However, even if the places that Jesus went to prepare for us is in the New Jerusalem, there is no conflict. For we don't know when the new Jerusalem is created. Just because John sees the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven after the great white throne judgment, doesn't mean that it didn't exist before hand. For all we know, it could be completed and ready to go right now and just waiting for the church to be gathered.

In the past example we see in history, God preserved His people when He poured out judgments in Egypt--which is similar in some ways to some things we see in Revelation.
I've heard this apologetic many times. The problem with is that, all of those people needed to remain on the earth. For Israel, God had promised them the promised land. How could He fulfill His promise if He removed Israel from the earth? God told Noah to build an Ark so that he would escape the flood. If God removed Noah and His family from the earth, there would be no one on the earth today. Lot and His family were able to escape to a small town out of the destruction zone. Jesus said that the tribulation period would be the worst time in the history from the beginning of creation, until now and never to be equaled again. And that if that time was allowed to go on any longer than the allotted time, no one on earth would be left alive. Regarding the church, there is no Ark to get into, no promised land to obtain on this earth and no small city for the church to flee to. That combined with the fact that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we must be removed from the earth prior to God's wrath, just as the Lord promised:

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."

In the scripture above, Jesus says that he will keep us out of that hour of trial, not through it, or during it, but keep us out of that time of tribulation, which is going to come upon the whole inhabited world.

We won't be here!

There is also the issue that Paul, whose immediate audience was first century (or centuries) Christians who are already asleep in Christ, that they were not appointed unto wrath but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. Is Paul talking about living on earth during a time when God pours out wrath on it, or is He talking about their not being objects of God's wrath, but rather of mercy? Then you are also assuming a certain chronology to Revelation as opposed to some of these things being pictures of events that happen at the same time.
Here is the scripture that you are referring to:

"Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. "

First of all, Paul is addressing believers, referring to them as "brothers." He is comforting them regarding those believers who have already died, that when the resurrection takes place, the spirits of those who have died Jesus will bring with Him, where at which time they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. So, those Paul is referring to that have died, are believers of whom he is comforting them about. Immediately after that, we who are still alive will be changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. Then according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will take the entire church back to those dwelling places, whether it is referring to the New Jerusalem or other places that He prepared, it doesn't change the fact that Jesus will be taking us back to the Father's house in heaven.

This is one of the problems that comes with entrenching yourself in a theological position and then using interpretation of apocalyptic literature as your primary approach to eschatology? The arguments you have for pre-trib are not weighty (or conclusive) enough to outweigh direct teaching of scripture on the matter, or to posit two parousia's or two gatherings of two different elects in the eschatalogical passages.
Presidente, none of the things that you have brought up have caused a problem with the church being gathered pre-tribulation.

You are very confused in your understanding of end-time events! One of your problems besides misapplying scripture, is that you don't understand the nature of God, that He does not punish the righteous with the wicked. In answer to this you say, God is going to protect the church during His time of wrath, which shows that you don't understand the severity of that coming wrath, nor do you understand who God's wrath is going to be poured out on during that time and why.

You will just have to wait and find out the answer to this. And when you see it take place just as I and others have said it would, then you will say, "ah, they were right."
 

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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Regarding the church, there is no Ark to get into, no promised land to obtain on this earth and no small city for the church to flee to.
The people who use the argument that God will just protect the Church during the tribulation have not read book of Revelation carefully.

1) The saints are overcome (Rev 13:7)
2) The seals trumpets and vials are so severe that there is no place on earth to run to or be protected in. Those post-tribbers that have been tricked by their leaders to order survival kits are not paying close attention to the book of Revelation, you cannot farm and third of the earth and waters are practically destroyed.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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I believe you are misunderstanding the passage. "When He comes to be glorified in His saints" corresponds to what is said in Matthew 24:30: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory.

1. This is in contrast to the first coming of Christ in humility and humiliation.

2. When He comes in "great glory" He is also "glorified in His saints" since they are metaphorically called "the clouds of Heaven". There are no clouds of water vapor in God's Heaven, since those clouds belong to the earth's atmosphere. But the multitude of saints all dressed in white and radiating light and surrounding Christ appear as clouds to those on earth. And surrounding them are the clouds of holy angels.

3. That passage speaks of His "mighty angels", "flaming fire", and "vengeance". This has nothing to do with the Rapture, but with the battle of Armageddon, which is AFTER th Great Tribulation. Therefore this passage supports the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church. How could the saints accompany Christ at His Second Coming from Heaven, unless they were ALREADY in Heaven?
Hold on there nehemiah I want to understand what your saying. You referenced Matthew 24:30 and said, "This has nothing to do with the rapture, but with the battle of Armageddon, which is AFTER the Great Tribulation. So when DOES the rapture take place between Matthew 24:15 through Matthew 24:28? Like I ask another poster, where exactly do you insert the pretrib rapture?

I also have another question for you that I ask another poster? What is the purpose of the parable of the ten virgins? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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So when DOES the rapture take place between Matthew 24:15 through Matthew 24:28? Like I ask another poster, where exactly do you insert the pretrib rapture?
Matthew 24 has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RAPTURE, but everything to do with the Second Coming. The Rapture doctrine was first introduced at the Last Supper (John 14), several days after the Olivet Discourse, and just before the Crucifixion.

However, there are intimations of the Rapture in Matthew 24 (further down) and 25.
 

bluto

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Aug 4, 2016
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The people who use the argument that God will just protect the Church during the tribulation have not read book of Revelation carefully.

1) The saints are overcome (Rev 13:7)
2) The seals trumpets and vials are so severe that there is no place on earth to run to or be protected in. Those post-tribbers that have been tricked by their leaders to order survival kits are not paying close attention to the book of Revelation, you cannot farm and third of the earth and waters are practically destroyed.
Well then answer me this? It says at Matthew 24:37-40, "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. vs38, "For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating a drinking, they were marrying and given in marriage, until the day Noah entered the arc. Vs39, "and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be."

Vs40, "Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left." Which one of these two men suffered the wrath of God? Was it the one left or the one taken? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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Matthew 24 has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RAPTURE, but everything to do with the Second Coming. The Rapture doctrine was first introduced at the Last Supper (John 14), several days after the Olivet Discourse, and just before the Crucifixion.

However, there are intimations of the Rapture in Matthew 24 (further down) and 25.
Can you please be more specific and identify the exact verses your talking about at John 14? Btw, I think you mean John 13, what verses there? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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Can you please be more specific and identify the exact verses your talking about at John 14? Btw, I think you mean John 13, what verses there? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
John 14:1-3 is the verses i've seen posted in support of pre-trib rapture before, so thats my guess!
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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The people who use the argument that God will just protect the Church during the tribulation have not read book of Revelation carefully.

1) The saints are overcome (Rev 13:7)
2) The seals trumpets and vials are so severe that there is no place on earth to run to or be protected in. Those post-tribbers that have been tricked by their leaders to order survival kits are not paying close attention to the book of Revelation, you cannot farm and third of the earth and waters are practically destroyed.
I completely agree with what you are saying, as I have been saying the same thing myself for years.

Anyone who is believing and teaching that God is going to protect His church on the earth during the time of His wrath, has not understood the severity and magnitude of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. These are not going to be common disasters that the world has experienced in the past. I listed several of them in a post just to give the naysayers a glimpse of what I mean by their severity. In Rev.3:10, Jesus says, "I will keep you out of the hour of trial," not protect you in it, through it or during it, but I will keep you out of it. As you said, there will be no place to escape and that because it will affect the whole entire world.

I could list all of the underlying results of these plagues of wrath, which I've already done, but they seem to ignore them. Maybe because it is too supportive of the pre-trib view.

Regarding their claim that the church is protected during God's wrath, they have not responded to the to the fact that, the church is no longer mentioned after the end of chapter 3. Not once is the church mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath. In opposition, the word is used 19 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3. Coincidence? I think not! But a God-given clue for us to find, which they obviously haven't found, nor believe even when it is shown to them.

I believe that the world is going to be overwhelmed when they begin to experience these supernatural events of wrath. Things are going to take place that have never happened before. Demonic beings resembling locusts are going to be let out of the Abyss and will be stinging people, having tails and stingers like that of scorpions, which will last for five months. And the only ones that scripture says are excluded from this plague, are those 144,000 who are sealed in chapter 7. Everyone else will be susceptible to their torment.

Regarding the waters, Bowls 2 & 3 will have all of the ocean and fresh waters turned into literal blood. I'm also guessing that all of that stored bottled water in warehouses throughout the earth, will also be turned into blood, just like what God did to the Egyptians. If the waters being turned into blood wasn't enough, the pouring out of the 4th bowl will cause the sun to scorch the inhabitants of the earth and sear them with intense heat. Guess what? No water for relief from that intense heat. How many deaths will result from that?

The more one studies these plagues of wrath, the more it supports what Jesus said, that if those days had been allowed to go on any longer, no one would be left alive on the earth. And these Einstein's think that God is going to protect His church while all of this is going on!

The first indication that the day of the Lord has begun, is when the world sees that a large number of people will be missing and that, all at the same time. Then, they will see some political leader establish a seven year covenant with Israel, allowing them to build their temple. And we know what happens 3 1/2 years later.
 

Absolutely

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Jul 23, 2018
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When are the OT saints resurrected then? David has to be in the millennium. Is this at Rev 14 you would say? Mid-trib?
Ot saints were raised either alongside or right after Jesus. and everyone else after the millineum. Only the dead in christ at the rapture and apparently those martyred during the gt are in glorified bodies...plus the 144k and the ripe fruit of rev 14.
 

TooFastTurtle

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Apr 10, 2019
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Ot saints were raised either alongside or right after Jesus. and everyone else after the millineum. Only the dead in christ at the rapture and apparently those martyred during the gt are in glorified bodies...plus the 144k and the ripe fruit of rev 14.
I believe you are correct, there is no mention of a resurrection in Revelation 19 OR Matthew 24:31
 

Absolutely

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So tell me absolutely, how do you know the foolish virgins are saved? :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
They are described VIVIDLY as saved.
They had light =Jesus
They were virgins = pure,undefiled,innocent,separated (only one possibility...they were saved and belonged to Jesus.
They were in the assembly ,or company of the wise virgins or Christians.
They had oil= the Holy Spirit.
And the biggie.....they were waiting for Jesus.
So we KNOW they are believers
 

49

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Jun 28, 2015
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Your claim above is your error! Because you do indeed need to take a ride on the circular highway (bring in the all related scriptures) in order to come to a right conclusion. That God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must take place prior to the Lord returning to the earth and that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, would demonstrate that we cannot go through that time of wrath and therefore the Lord's promise of gathering us from the earth must take place prior to said wrath. You're not putting two and two together.

Also, as I continue to point out, those who believe that the church is going to be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, have not understood the severity of that wrath, that by the time that it is over, the majority of the earths population will have been decimated and all human government dismantled. It is also important to understand that God's wrath was already poured out upon Jeseus, satisfying it completely. Therefore, God's wrath no longer rests upon those who believe in His Son. This is some more of that circular highway stuff that you need to include in your eschatology.



Look at these passages. I f you look at Matthew 24:30-31 in context, Christ's parousia happens after the great tribulation. If you read I Thessalonians 4:16-17 in context, it happens at Christ's parousia. Paul refers to the coming of our Lord Jesus CHrist and our gathering unto him in II Thess. 2:1, which pre-tribbers typically take to refer to the rapture. But Matthew 24:30-31 sets the gathering at the parousia.
Parousia is just a word! You are trying to pigeonhole this word to refer to a specific event, while at the same time ignoring that circular highway stuff. In short, you can't see the trees for the forest.

While you are trying to convince me that the our gathering takes place when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you ignore the fact that scripture also says that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. In essence, you adopt one part of scripture and then sweep the information under the rug by creating weak apologetics in support of your claim.



The gathering of the church = Jesus descends from heaven, the dead in Christ rise first and then the living are changed and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. At that point and according to John 14:1-3, Jesus then takes the entire church back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. At this point, Jesus does not return to the earth, but appears only to gather His church.

Second Coming = Jesus, along with the church and the angels, descends to the earth to strike down the nations who will be gathered against Him at Armageddon. It is at this same time that the beast and the false prophet are thrown alive into the lake of fire and when Satan is locked up in the Abyss. This is also the time when the Lord will establish His millennial kingdom.



First of all, the new Jerusalem is never mentioned as those places that Jesus went to prepare for us. I'm not saying that it isn't. I'm just saying that the scripture does not state that those places that the Lord went to prepare for us as referring to the new Jerusalem. It's implied by some believers. However, even if the places that Jesus went to prepare for us is in the New Jerusalem, there is no conflict. For we don't know when the new Jerusalem is created. Just because John sees the new Jerusalem coming down out of heaven after the great white throne judgment, doesn't mean that it didn't exist before hand. For all we know, it could be completed and ready to go right now and just waiting for the church to be gathered.



I've heard this apologetic many times. The problem with is that, all of those people needed to remain on the earth. For Israel, God had promised them the promised land. How could He fulfill His promise if He removed Israel from the earth? God told Noah to build an Ark so that he would escape the flood. If God removed Noah and His family from the earth, there would be no one on the earth today. Lot and His family were able to escape to a small town out of the destruction zone. Jesus said that the tribulation period would be the worst time in the history from the beginning of creation, until now and never to be equaled again. And that if that time was allowed to go on any longer than the allotted time, no one on earth would be left alive. Regarding the church, there is no Ark to get into, no promised land to obtain on this earth and no small city for the church to flee to. That combined with the fact that we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath, then we must be removed from the earth prior to God's wrath, just as the Lord promised:

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."

In the scripture above, Jesus says that he will keep us out of that hour of trial, not through it, or during it, but keep us out of that time of tribulation, which is going to come upon the whole inhabited world.

We won't be here!



Here is the scripture that you are referring to:

"Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him. "

First of all, Paul is addressing believers, referring to them as "brothers." He is comforting them regarding those believers who have already died, that when the resurrection takes place, the spirits of those who have died Jesus will bring with Him, where at which time they will be reunited with their resurrected bodies. So, those Paul is referring to that have died, are believers of whom he is comforting them about. Immediately after that, we who are still alive will be changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. Then according to John 14:1-3, Jesus will take the entire church back to those dwelling places, whether it is referring to the New Jerusalem or other places that He prepared, it doesn't change the fact that Jesus will be taking us back to the Father's house in heaven.



Presidente, none of the things that you have brought up have caused a problem with the church being gathered pre-tribulation.

You are very confused in your understanding of end-time events! One of your problems besides misapplying scripture, is that you don't understand the nature of God, that He does not punish the righteous with the wicked. In answer to this you say, God is going to protect the church during His time of wrath, which shows that you don't understand the severity of that coming wrath, nor do you understand who God's wrath is going to be poured out on during that time and why.

You will just have to wait and find out the answer to this. And when you see it take place just as I and others have said it would, then you will say, "ah, they were right."[/QUOTE]

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."

Which version of The Bible is this quote from?

Thanks!
 

49

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Jun 28, 2015
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Not sure how my reply brought up that wall of text prior to this post. My apologies. Need to learn how to properly copy and paste. Am computer illiterate :)
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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@Absolutely @Ahwatukee Do you guys believe most people will realize they were in error once the Rapture happens and will turn to the Lord?
I think that there will be a lot of those who had received the Lord, studied His word and will have gone back into the world, living according to the sinful nature. When they see the church gone, then they will realize what has happened and will realize that because they were not ready and watching (no extra oil), that they are now trapped in the day of the Lord, the time of God's wrath. I'm sure that some will immediately start telling believers and unbelievers alike what has happened and what to expect next. At that time, they will now know that keeping their faith will most likely cost them their lives. They are going to know that once they get to that 3 1/2 year mark, that anyone who is faithful to Christ during that time, the beast is going to make war and conquer the saints of that time. According to what John sees in Rev.20:4-6, many of them will be beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image, nor received his mark.

Definitely not a good time to be on the earth.
 

bluto

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2016
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They are described VIVIDLY as saved.
They had light =Jesus
They were virgins = pure,undefiled,innocent,separated (only one possibility...they were saved and belonged to Jesus.
They were in the assembly ,or company of the wise virgins or Christians.
They had oil= the Holy Spirit.
And the biggie.....they were waiting for Jesus.
So we KNOW they are believers
Unfortunately and I'm sorry to say the five foolish virgins were not saved. Look at what Matthew 25:12 says, "But He answered and said, Truly I say to you, I do not know you." Remember in my other post I stated from Matthew 7:23 the four most lethal words (at least accoding to me) is when Jesus stated, "I never knew you."

He said this to "PROFESSING" Christians who are identified at Matthew 7:22 where Jesus said, "Many will say to Me on that day, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" Again, they were professing Christians just like the Word of faith preachers and teachers you see on tv promising healing, money and all sorts of things to entice followers after them.

Now, getting back to Matthew chapter 25. It seems everone around here knows all about the parable of the ten virgins and yet, no mentions the next parable of Jesus about the "talents." Matthew 25:15, "And to one He gave five talents, to another, two, and to another one, each according to his own ability, and he went on a journey." I think the idea about "each according to his own ability" means the master knew what each of them was capable of doing.

I am not going through all the verses but will directly go to Matthew 25:26, "But his master answered and said to him. You wicked and lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow, and gather where I scattered no seed." What happens to the lazy slave with one talent can be found at Matthew 25:29-30.

"For to everyone who has shall more shall be given, and he shall have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. Vs30, "And cast out the worthless slave INTO OUTER DARKNESS; IN THAT PLACE THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH." I highly suggest you read the rest of Matthew 25 starting at vs31. These are "sobering" words and should be taken seriously. :eek:

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."

Which version of The Bible is this quote from?

Thanks!
I got it from Rev.3:10 from the Interlinear.

The Greek word "ek" is translated as "out of" or "out from," i.e. I will keep you out of or out from, the hour of trail that is coming upon the whole inhabited world.

Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

from
ἐκ (ek)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1537: From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.
 

49

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Jun 28, 2015
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I got it from Rev.3:10 from the Interlinear.

The Greek word "ek" is translated as "out of" or "out from," i.e. I will keep you out of or out from, the hour of trail that is coming upon the whole inhabited world.

Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth.

from
ἐκ (ek)
Preposition
Strong's Greek 1537: From out, out from among, from, suggesting from the interior outwards. A primary preposition denoting origin, from, out.
Fantastic, thank you! Had a concordance once, and rarely used it (not proud of that, either). Actually, got more confused.

Thanks again brother.
 

Ahwatukee

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Mar 12, 2015
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Fantastic, thank you! Had a concordance once, and rarely used it (not proud of that, either). Actually, got more confused.

Thanks again brother.
You're welcome! Below is what I have been using for years:

https://biblehub.com/

Go to a book and chose a verse, then click on "parallel." This will allow you to see the same verse for every major translation.

Then click on "Lexicon" and it will list the Greek words and their meanings and where they are used. And so much more.
 

Wall

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Mar 13, 2013
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You are correct, we will be with Jesus from that point forward.

In the scripture that you posted above, the dead in Christ rise first in their immortal and glorified bodies After that the believers who are still alive will be changed immortal and glorified (I Cor.15:51-53) and will be caught up with those who will have just resurrected. At this point the entire church will be present to meet the Lord in the air. Then you must include John 14:1-3 where the Lord says that He went to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that He would come back to get us to take us to the Father's house, so that were He is we may be also. It is tantamount to bring in all of the related scriptures regarding this issue in order to come to a right conclusion.
JOHN 14 [1] Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [2] In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [3] And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Ya see what the scriptures say. HE WILL COME AGAIN. He doesnt say a word about going back to heaven with Him. He’s coming back to earth as He said He would.

ZECH. 8 [1] Again the word of the Lord of hosts came to me, saying, [2] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury. [3] THUS SAITH THE LORD; I AM RETURNED UNTO ZION, AND WILL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain. [4] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men and old women dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age. [5] And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof. [6] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; If it be marvellous in the eyes of the remnant of this people in these days, should it also be marvellous in mine eyes? saith the Lord of hosts. [7] Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I WILL SAVE MY PEOPLE FROM THE EAST COUNTRY, AND FROM THE WEST COUNTRY; [8] AND I WILL BRING THEM, AND THEY SHALL DWELL IN THE MIDST OF JERUSALEM: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God, in truth and in righteousness.

The new Jerusalem {many mansions} will be in Zion, in the midst of old Jerusalem. Its there He will “bring” us in the twinkling of an eye and we will DWELL with Him there. Not to heaven as the Rapturist claim. Just look at verse 7! Its when Jesus is dwelling in the new Jerusalem that He gathers His people. He will gather us in the twinkling of an eye.

Ahwatukee ole boy
If you believe in a pre-trib rapture, you must also believe in a 2nd rapture to fulfill the gathering of Gods people fiound in Zech 8 and many other scriptures