What Laws are still valid to christians

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Feb 9, 2010
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The laws that are still valid today and always will be valid that cannot pass away are God's moral laws which include the 10 commandments.

Paul said we do not abolish the law but we establish it.

The Bible says love is the fulfilling of the law which is to love people and God.Jesus said that the greatest commandment is to love God and people.

God's moral laws never pass away.

But the physical ordinances that Israel went by in the Old Testament Jesus took them out of the way nailing them to His cross,therefore let no man judge you in meats,drinks,respect of a holy day,new moons,or sabbath days.
 
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Welshman

Guest
4enlightment your last post? I know what symbolism is friend? But what's the point? You talk in riddles very esoteric sometimes? But I dnt want to go further until you answer original questions? I dnt want more scriptures or another debate ? Questions frm yesterday remain unanswered ? The fact remains the Jew n gentile have different views on Jesus role in thier lives I think this will remain til The Lord takes two sticks and makes one joined together? 180 pages on law have resulted in no definitive answer bt brotherly love has vanished in process and much written than should have? Grace or law? This seems the biggest topic and il stay in my belief no doubt you same, but those on following law have bn on this thread the more vociferous, the most reluctant to accept another's view?, the most threatning , the most accusing, this in itself shows the gulf is wide and 180 more pages will not alter that? The last post was brief I'm nt sure by whom bt it was most apt? I agree with her statement my posts have bn read and liked by hundreds I'm not here to divide Christ into less than the whole he is to suit no man, nor will any yoke me with the burden of law that some profess essential by thier own means .
 
May 15, 2013
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The physical perception of the laws are the ones that is written down. And the ones perceive it and follow them in the natural, will be judge by what we do in the physical. But the flesh is weak, so if someone want to keep the laws in its natural form and ignore its spiritual meaning, God will not remember them (Blotted out of the Book of Life which are the memories of God).

Genesis 8:1
But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters receded.

Luke 23:42
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds: “Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more.”

Revelation 3:5
The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.
 
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timberdoodle

Guest
If we serve Christ with all our hearts then there will be no need for Laws. The Law of my heart is Christ

Just a thought

Timber
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Welshman and all, we are free in Christ to be, by his death we are Forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, Christ is our propitiation for any and all sin. Not ever meant to be taken for granted as many say they believe yet do not, and these know who these are. No matter God does just love you all:
He died for all, and he is the propitiation

  1. Romans 3:25
    whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
    Romans 3:24-26 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  2. 1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    1 John 2:1-3 (in Context) 1 John 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
  3. 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

    And for those that argue under future sins are not forgiven. You are correct, how could any future sin ever be forgiven unless one sins again after receiving the truth that all sins, past are forgiven.

    Tell me you might have just sinned and you did not want to, and yet you did, while trying not to. How fast is it past!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Do we have an advocate Jesus Christ the righteous?
    And as fast as any sin is past, before I can even blink an eye, why are we adhering to getting more forgiveness from God, when it is finished, done the forgiveness issue is over. Is there or has there ever been any forgiveness from God executed without the shedding of blood ever?
    Do we not see clear that what religiosity has done to this whole world in deception of getting each of us to work at either keeping saved or getting saved, which is what is keeping you all trapped into sinning that same sin over and over again that you keep regretting. God wants to teach you to trust God to say not to it and can't because you are not listening and trying to stop it in the energy of your own flesh. Galatians 6:8 real clear on this
    The Battle goes on people, Flesh against God's Spirit. Is it not yet clear to us all, that no flesh will ever please God, only Christ in the flesh did this for us, and was and is risen in the Spirit of God, he is in Heaven at the right hand of God making constant intercession for us all. It is all God and none of us, done completed at the cross/ Now that is unfathomable love from God to us, we are dressed in flesh that is not willing to be dead. It is our Choice to believe and be or continue on with self-efforts. Either be stressed out or be freed from flesh control in God's Spirit
    All in God's amazing love to all
 
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Welshman

Guest
Ref homeward bounds post #3419 and verses John 4 v 24 ? What can our Jewish brothers say to this simple bt beautiful verse? No twisting no diverting? Bt answer this mans post please? Tell me this man also is erring in scripture, unobedient to law? Misapplication ?, someone tell me this verse isn't true? In spirit? I rest my case?
 
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Welshman

Guest
Amen to that homeward bound? I couldn't put it better myself ? Its dne? Gods work is dne were simply waiting like for a bus to be caught up with him and forever remain with him were he is? Simplicity in Jesus amen ..
 
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Welshman

Guest
Loving and respecting Jesus for what he has done who he really is and all that is yet to come is the law? If you love Jesus you'll walk in him, he will kp you as he ought? Thank you lord for simple ness in your grace and love... Law? You kp it if u want bt you best not break one yodh of it ? Or you break it all......
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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John was going by the Letter of the Laws because he was practicing the ritual for purification by water, but he said that there's going to be One who will come and purify the soul by the use of the Holy spirit (His method) instead of water. Jesus was following the spiritual meaning of the Laws.

Today the chief use of the mikveh is for women, prior to marriage, following niddut, and following the birth of a child, since the laws of ritual impurity no longer apply after the destruction of the Temple. Mikveh immersion is also obligatory for converts, as part of the ceremony of conversion. In addition immersion in the mikveh is still practiced by various groups as an aid to spirituality, particularly on the eve of the Shabbat and festivals, especially Yom Kippur, and the custom still obtains, in accordance with Numbers 31: 22–23 to immerse new vessels and utensils purchased from non-Jews. At the beginning of the 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century, mikveh immersion also frequently constituted a symbolic expression of a new spiritual beginning for both women and men, in all branches of Jewish practice. In addition to conversion toJudaism, rituals have developed incorporating mikveh immersion as part of bar mitzvah and bat mitzvah; prior to marriage for men as well as women; in cases of miscarriage, infertility, and illness; and following divorce, sexual assault, or other life-altering events. An indication of the probable long-term impact of this trend is the increased construction of mikva'ot by non-Orthodox Jewish communities in North America. Mikveh | Jewish Virtual Library

Isaiah 4:4
The Lord will wash away the filth of the women of Zion; he will cleanse the bloodstains from Jerusalem by a spirit of judgment and a spirit of fire.

John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
and now after the burial, resurrection, ascension and reception of the Holy Ghost, Peter who just kept on not fully understanding this battle of flesh and God's Spirit, now able to live in him, by Christ's finished work at the cross, and ascension, where after that he received the Holy Spirit of God and then had three dreams of animals that were unclean before the cross, and now after the cross are clean. Peter says to the Lord that he will not kill and eat anything unclean. God replies to Peter and says do not call anything unclean that the Lord has cleaned. Peter goes to the gentile house of Cornelius and the Gentiles there get saved by God without any water Baptism and or rituals of any sorts, except what Peter puts on them afterwards, being accustomed to Law
By Faith in the finished work of Christ at the cross one is saved from death from God the Father a free gift to all that believe, receive new life in God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit God sends and seal us up with this freely, so do we believe or do we have add works to this? Or is it actually God doing the new work of Christ through us?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Many, many receive this gift without asking for it, or even looking for it, starting with Paul.
Paul was righteous in his own self and the way he was taught as many are as well today. Sure he was looking for and to please God. And god knowing this made him aware of God. Let us see what Saul who became {Paul has to say about this:
[h=3]Philippians 3:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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You do know that is referring to Christ, and not to God, right?



The point under discussion here was the dwelling place of God.
His dwelling place is Heaven and has been since the beginning. God is a Spirit and can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth
Jesus right now is at rest sitting down next to God in Heaven making constant intercession for the believers, so we can approach the throne of grace in one's time of need to Father as being 100% forgiven to teach how to walk as son walked, no more forgiveness is need from God the Father, Christ did it all for us so we can walk in the new life god the Father gives us. Even if Father resided here or there, no matter that is not an eternal issue, Belief or unbelief is the eternal issue this day here and now, and the topic is what Laws are still valid?
 
May 15, 2013
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and now after the burial, resurrection, ascension and reception of the Holy Ghost, Peter who just kept on not fully understanding this battle of flesh and God's Spirit, now able to live in him, by Christ's finished work at the cross, and ascension, where after that he received the Holy Spirit of God and then had three dreams of animals that were unclean before the cross, and now after the cross are clean. Peter says to the Lord that he will not kill and eat anything unclean. God replies to Peter and says do not call anything unclean that the Lord has cleaned. Peter goes to the gentile house of Cornelius and the Gentiles there get saved by God without any water Baptism and or rituals of any sorts, except what Peter puts on them afterwards, being accustomed to Law
By Faith in the finished work of Christ at the cross one is saved from death from God the Father a free gift to all that believe, receive new life in God the Father in the power of the Holy Spirit God sends and seal us up with this freely, so do we believe or do we have add works to this? Or is it actually God doing the new work of Christ through us?
Hosea 6:6For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Matthew 13:15
For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

Matt 7:11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!

Matthew 17:12
But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.”

Luke 24:31
Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him, and he disappeared from their sight.


God is trying to get us to truly recognize that He is our Father and which the devil has snatched the memories of Him being the true Father from our minds and gotten us to focus on the things of this world. Once a soul remembers that He is the one and only Father, He will heal them from all the things that the devil had done to them to distracted them from knowing the truth.
 
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Welshman

Guest
Amen to that? Exactly, spot on, not adding nor taking away its there in plain speech by Paul to all who will listen ? I count all my righteousness and being as filth without Christ? Wow that's truth right there, we are nothing without Him
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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The point under discussion was did Christ "administer" the New Covenant, or "mediate" the New Covenant.
looking for a needle in a haystack are we? watch out could swallow a camel in doing so
It is what it is, Christ administered the /new Covenant and mediates it after the cross that administers it to the believer. where it is finished and done, we are made holy and acceptable unto Father by Christ again COL. 1:22, CAN YOU OR ANYONE IMPROVE ON THAT
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Still need scripture that states they were alive Spiritually, it only says they were living Souls before the eating of that tree
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Adam and Eve lost eternal life (no eternal life = spiritual death) when they rebelled against God,
which was evidenced in their eventual loss of physical life, "Dying (i.e., eternally), you shall die
(i.e., physically)." (Ge 2:17)

Therefore, all mankind is born dead in the sin of Adam and condemned (Ro 5:17; Col 2:13),
objects of God's wrath by their very nature (Eph 2:3), which is corrupted, sinful.

They must now be reborn into that eternal life (Jn 3:5) through faith,
to escape the condemnation (Jn 3:18) and wrath of God (Jn 3:36) into which they are born (Eph 2:3).
That is conjecture anyone where is it stated they were alive in the Spirit of God before the eating of that tree of death. yes they were alive, living Souls is what is stated not living Spirits
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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when we close our eyes there is our own spirit inside of our body. now we know that we also have our body of flesh and that our spirit dwells inside it. our spirit says to our body "get up and put your clothes on" and our body obeys the voice of our spirit and does so. our spirits voice say to our hand "brush your teeth" and our hands get the toothpaste and the toothbrush and begins to do so.

(pardon me if i explain this in a mundane fashion),,,i know this is something we all understand. we do this very thing though without considering it much though and so we take the process for granted(seeing we've all done this from birth),,but the process,since this is the fashion of our created creature is the same in the deeper matters as in the simple ones.

as if a man get's in an airplane and moves it's control's and the airplane when told by the man "turn left" turns left or "fly straight" it obeys,,,the same if you say to your hands with your spirits voice "put the bread in my mouth",your hand does not pick it up and rub it in your hair instead. that is your body of flesh is a faithful servant to your spirit and always obeys your spirits voice.

the same your body obeys your spirits voice as to the way it believes in salvation. that is one person looks at the cross and see's the Crucifixion and says in their spirits mind "the lord has saved me on the cross,i by grace have obtained salvation",,,now past the belief that Jesus has purchased salvation for them what thing will this person's spirit say to their body of flesh to do? will the spirit of the one who believes that they have been saved say to their body "do this and you will be saved"?,,,you see they will have no need to do so.

that is since they believe that the lord saved them at the cross and that this work is complete will instead say to their body "leap with joy,sing the song of thanks that my spirits heart is singing" and this is the work that this person's spirits lips will have their body's flesh jump up and begin to do. this person's spirit says to their body of flesh "rest from your works of salvation,it is complete and whole,rest from your works in the rest of the lord",,,you will see them doing these works,the very thing their spirit believes they will tell their body to do.

and again their is another person,and they recite the words they have heard over and over. they say out of their mouths "the lord is my Savior",,,and they say to their tongue "make the noises that say the lord is crucified for my salvation" and their body of flesh obeys and makes the noises,but something is left wanting.

if you watch them real close,although they recite the things they hear the others say from the scriptures they also say to their bodies of flesh "dig through the scriptures to see what work needs to be done by me to obtain salvation",,they says to their body with their spirits lips "if i tell my body to do this today then i am saved,but if i do not tell my body to do it i am not",,,they say to their body "today eat this and you will be saved",,and tomorrow they say "do not eat this and i will be saved",,,you see in their spirits mind,though they say with their mouths Jesus is their Savior their works the same confess what they in truth believe.

that is they are not at rest from their works unto salvation. day after day they think of a new thing to be done to receive they very salvation they say aloud to everyone that Christ gave them. there is never rest from the carnal law once the person begins to preform the works of self salvation they are condemned to keep the whole law and day after day say to their body to preform another work to become saved(Galatians 5;3)

these are those who have made grace of no effect(Galatians 5;4)one has their hands out cupped together like a bowel and that person is praying and hoping for salvation. on the other hand the other person has his hands held out cupped like a bowel and their has are full of the hope of salvation. one is still under the yoke of the law and the other the yoke is removed. one is in peace and the other is in agony one is still under the schoolmaster,while the other not,,,

rest from the works of the law there is no need to say to your body do the works of saving your own selves when it is proper to say to your body with your spirits lips Jesus has preformed the work of your salvation. none will seek a Savior if he has complete belief that he is the possession of the Savior,and all who cannot confess that the works of salvation are complete in the Crucifixion of Christ will seek after a salvation seeing they do not believe it exist,,,,,these are the two laws one applies to the one and the other the others are bound to,,,
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is incorrectly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in an incorrect understanding of the law and the Spirit.
Wow!!!!!!!!!! you just go on with your bad self wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I see said the blind man to the deaf old lady as he picked up the hammer and saw
Love you deeper than you might know
 
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Hoffco

Guest
To Homwardbound and Welshman,neither of you have a Full, correct understanding of God's salvation plan, I don't think, either of you understand God's eternal cov. of Grace yet. Nor, How God saves us. Homward, you keep making too much of the sal. action, "done" on the cross: YOU say, "Who are we adhering to getting more forgiveness from God" "The forgiveness issue is over" "by his (Jesus) death we are Forgiven, redeened, reonciled," NO, the cross work of Jesus never saved anyone, WITHOUT the personal application of His death to our hearts in our life time , not 2,000yrs. ago. Jesus is every thing we need for salvation ;but we are not saved until we are first born into this world and are effectually called, born again by God into His Family. The eternal plan of GRACE was/is in effect from day one, in the garden of eden, before Jesus ever came and died, and the elect were saved ,based on the future work of Jesus on the cross, Jesus death only "PAID FOR" and CONFIRMED God's JUSTICE in having already saved them. SO, in reality, Jesus death did not save them, God's GRACE saved them. Can you not see this eternal plan of GRACE in Rom. 8:29-30? Love to all, Hoffco
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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The holy spirit is the new testament, before christ came and died for our sins we had to obtain righteousness by keeping of the commandments which was for the jews in the first place, now this is why christ came so that we can be righteous through him( the gentiles) and obtain the commonwealth of israel, that is what the new testament is letting christ living the life for us instead of us trying to do our own thing, why would we believe on christ? so that he can come and live in us, correct? exactly so God will live the righteousness he intended for us through us, through his holy spirit
[h=3]Romans 8[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

do you see it? it never said by us but IN US, let me explain to you what this means, whatever is in our hearts are manifested through the flesh is that correct? now look at this if the spirit of God is living in us and the spirit fulfills the righteousness of the law in our hearts, well then wouldn't we live by it everyday? it will be like this you will just know what is wrong from right the spirit of God will give you power not to covet, steal, kill or anything contained in the law that is what fulfillment means and that is the new testament right there the spirit of God which makes us righteous