What Laws are still valid to christians

[homwardbound]

Romans 14 is about judging a weaker brother/sister and it concerns two main areas, fasting and vegetarianism. It also has an undercurrent of the principles concerning meats offered to idols.

Yers and I consider me weaker than others, to start truth here. And it is deeper than food and vegetarianism. That was just the topic using food, since that was the problem at that time. Yet only God can show you this. Read the whole ask God to reveal the depth to you especially where Paul says what he is convinced of in verse 14. It is all about loving our neighbor and if our neighbor considers something a sin, then guess what it is a sin to him, and you who are Spiritual are you going to flaunt in from of him how you are free, and can cuss, eat what you want. This is what the Corinthians did to those in their place of worship, no care for what their neighbor thought, still being selfish, no compassion for others.
Love you deeper than you might be aware of.

 

[homwardbound]

So, fulfilling it's requirements means we do not have to do this any more?

Rather by Christ you do love as God loves and all is fulfilled in you by God the Father through giving you new life in God's Spirit, thanks to Christ fulfilling all the law and prophets, what Adam and Eve never got, and all born after them in the flesh. All in need of the Spirit of life

 

[chubbena]

Is the true Love of God conditional or unconditional?
1 Corinthians 13:4-7

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. [SUP]5 [/SUP]It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. [SUP]7 [/SUP]It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres

So if one believes, this is God
Now even if one does not believe, this is still God.
So again is God' love unconditional to all, waiting hoping for none to be lost, yet it is by what one chooses, and that is to believe this amazing Love of God to all or not yes?
Hoping this is now clear

To me 1 Cor 13:4-7 isn't about the love of God but rather the love of brothers and the way to use spiritual gifts to serve.
1Cor 12:31 to 13:3 says: Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. And yet I will show you the most excellent way. If I speak in the tongues[SUP] [/SUP]of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
1 Cor 14:1-5 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. [SUP] [/SUP]But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. [SUP] [/SUP]Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. [SUP] [/SUP]I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
1Cor 13:4-7 or 13 is right in between.
So we are seeing these verses differently.

[h=3][/h]

 

[chubbena]

Who said they are hard to understand? Peter said some things are hard to understand, which is true. But everything else is easy to understand... if you have the spirit.

"Who said Paul's letters are hard to understand?" Is that a question?
Peter's writing regarding Paul is witnessed by many a "Christians".
If one misunderstood Paul then yes, Peter's sayings are hard to understand.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

"Who said Paul's letters are hard to understand?" Is that a question?

Is your question a question?

 

[homwardbound]

He was led of the spirit, not the law.

Born here a life-giving Spirit. This was the purpose to go to the cross, first the death to cleanse us, and then Father to restore us
[h=3]Colossians 1:10-20[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; [SUP]11 [/SUP]strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness; [SUP]12 [/SUP]giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: [SUP]13 [/SUP]who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: [SUP]14 [/SUP]in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: [SUP]15 [/SUP]who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: [SUP]16 [/SUP]for by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: [SUP]17 [/SUP]and he is before all things, and by him all things consist. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. [SUP]19 [/SUP]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; [SUP]20 [/SUP]and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

 

[homwardbound]

I'm not sure I understand you question, sir. Could you please rephrase that one? Thank you

Does any flesh other than Christ's ever please God, before Christ and or after?
Can anyone see the kingdom of Heaven without the Born again Spirit that is given by God?
Does the flesh Spirit to this day still war after the Spirit of God?

 

[chubbena]

Peter said that his dear brother Paul wrote with the wisdom God gave him. (2Pe 3:15)

That's all I need.



So believers don't want Paul writing with the wisdom which God gave him?


So how is atonement made for every sin?


That is what context is for.


It is more fully given by the Son (Heb 1:1-2), through the writers of the NT, in the light of which
all Scripture is to be understood.


Just as I said.


I don't prove he is the Messiah.

I believe the revelation of the Son (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, that he is.


I have neither had the prophecies explained to me by Jesus Christ (Lk 24:44-45), nor been given
the authority of a NT revelator to apply Is 8:20 to the Messiah.

In other words the NT writers quoted OT in vain. Christ quoted OT in vain. All one has to do is to believe. May be one should try removing all the OT quotes in NT and throw OT away and see what the gospel would become.
On second thought, no such need - many "Christians" are witnessing such.

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, He did. But the queston is how He had learned to discern what is coming from Father or from Human or Satan uncluding also what they all speak through the exact the same Word.

Matt 4:5-7 Then the devil took him to the holy city, had him stand on the highest point of the temple, 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’”


Matt 16:23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me, because you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but on man’s.”



And besides, isn't God able to talk to person through His Law? Certanly Jesus did whatever Father told Him and said whatever Father told Him through the Scripture.

The tree is always identified by its fruit. So the discernment is what I am or think I am being told to do or say, is it selfish? And My sheep hear my voice, a voice of love that this world can't comprehend.
That is discernment. Now when one gets mad, does that not show flesh being in ones way of the Love of God.
Now you might use Jesus overturned the tables and rebuked them.
Sat down and started making a whip, as it appeared, and their own conscience's accused them. Jesus never had to do a bit of punishment to anyone.
Let others own conscience's do their own accusing or excusing, We don't need to do that. Just love as God does and leads. Even see John

[h=3]John 8[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

8 Jesus went unto the mount of Olives. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, [SUP]4 [/SUP]they say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. [SUP]5 [/SUP]Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? [SUP]6 [/SUP]This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. [SUP]7 [/SUP]So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. [SUP]9 [/SUP]And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. [SUP]10 [/SUP]When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? [SUP]11 [/SUP]She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Any punishment? What does your conscious tell you. And it is by God's kindness that teaches me to trust a loving and supporting God, and learn my Shepherd's voice

 

[homwardbound]

I do understand where are coming from. But cannot saying that He did not use the law for that purpose with 100%. I believe that it is more possible that He did.
And also I believe that the whole Scripture, uncluding the Law contains SOMETHING IMMEASURABLY MORE than just a set of rules, historical edits and moral imprints.

seriously Yury, Christ while here annihilated all the people under Law in showing them the impossibility in being able to obey it?

Read where Christ said if you lust after a woman, you have already committed Adultery in your heart, and are guilty, and so if you want to god to heaven, gouge out your eye(s), better for part of you to go to heaven than all of you go to hell.
Not only that, but if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off, again better for part of you to go to Heaven than all of you go to hell.
When I saw these under law strictness and then saw that rich man walk away sad, for he could not give up his earthly possessions. I saw under Law I would have to become nothing more than a Torso. Arms, legs, cut off, eyes gouged out, no tongue, and you get the picture.
Well so did the Disciples, and therefore asked Christ seeing this annihilation of not being able to get to heaven, because they see they can't be perfect, even though they want to.
So they ask, after seeing this rich man walk away very sad:
Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible

What was Christ talking about? when did this possibility to be saved come to be? by God and God alone?
Was it at the cross? was it the death? The life? or the both? to make it whole?

 

[homwardbound]

To me 1 Cor 13:4-7 isn't about the love of God but rather the love of brothers and the way to use spiritual gifts to serve.
1Cor 12:31 to 13:3 says: Now eagerly desire the greater gifts. And yet I will show you the most excellent way. If I speak in the tonguesof men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.
1 Cor 14:1-5 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.
1Cor 13:4-7 or 13 is right in between.
So we are seeing these verses differently.

Okay, so seeing it from a flesh standpoint how soon are we guilty of not being able to perform this type of love?

That is what Paul is saying in 1Cor.12:31 about a more excellent way. And that is 1 cor. 13:13 Love and not of the flesh ever because you and I both know we can't do this type of love. Now we try in the Spiritual gifts and feel good about ourselves or not, dependent on whether anyone else notices me.
God is Love true Love and is only revealed by God's Spirit, not flesh. And is beyond all the gifts. Remember Paul saying, that the gifts will pass and we will move on into maturity in Father's love spread abroad through out our new being that started at the new heart of flesh that God by the resurrected Christ gave us. God's imputed righteousness, not ours as Saul had his own read it in Phil 3. Put no confidence in flesh. Could this be our own, not just others, more importantly our own selves?

 

[chubbena]

Assuming is not for me.

I am quite satisfied with the NT word of God as it is written.

As it's written, Cornelius and his family were devout, God fearing and prayed to God regularly.
As it's reality, Cornelius had not at that point read any of the NT writings - whether or not NT writings said the unclean were clean.
As it's not written - that Cornelius offered Peter pork chop.

 

[just-me]

from the OP

This thread is dedicated for all, to recive a clear picture of which Laws are still in used today that God permits, if you have any to share please do, and please give an explanation on why the law still is in effect today in this age thank you and God bless

Been watching this thread and contributed some until the contention escalated, and then said a few more things after arguments lessened. I don't think a clear picture has been arrived at, or ever will be arrived at for the edification with a pure heart is somewhat lacking at times. If I were a bettin' man, I would say most contributors will burn out before coming to an agreement concerning this. Kinda reminds me of congress these days. "I will not negotiate!" “I won’t accept your terms!” I can't understand why the other side just doesn't want to negotiate.

 

[Elin]

Sorry about all the boxes, but they are the only way to give context.

What I said I don't understand why Paul's letters are hard to understand, I meant why he had to make them so hard to understand by law breakers.

Paul wrote them to believers, not to unbelievers.

Peter said that his dear brother Paul wrote with the wisdom God gave him. (2Pe 3:15)

That's all I need.

So law breakers are unbelievers?

So believers don't want Paul writing with the wisdom which God gave him?

"Sacrifice for sin is always in force."

Atonement has to be made for every sin. Animal sacrifice was the type.

So how is atonement made for every sin?

"We must pay more careful attention, therefore, to what we have heard, so that we do not "drift away." (Heb 2:1)

"What we have heard" is the message of the gospel;
i.e., the person Christ as the God-man and his work on the cross, from which greater revelation given through the Son (Heb 1:1-2)
we must not "drift away."

not explicitly but. . .implicitly. He didn't say "now that you have the good news of the salvation
you may ignore what's said in the past" but rather "we must pay MORE careful attention".

That is what context is for.

Now what is the gospel? Isn't it all over the book of Isaiah especially chapter 52?

It is more fully given by the Son (Heb 1:1-2), through the writers of the NT, in the light
of which all Scripture is to be understood.

Wrong. It wasn't the writer who puts the words of Is 8:17-18 in the mouth of the Messiah.
It's the Messiah, who's the Word, spoke through Isaiah and understood by the Hebrew
writer and thus written.

Just as I said.

How do you prove He is the Messiah without examining the whole chapter and even the whole book of Isaiah and even the whole OT?

I don't prove he is the Messiah.

I believe the revelation of the Son (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, that he is.

Could you pull out 8:20 and say it's not about the Messiah?

I have neither had the prophecies explained to me by Jesus Christ (Lk 24:44-45),
nor been given the authority of a NT revelator to apply Is 8:20 to the Messiah.

In other words the NT writers quoted OT in vain. Christ quoted OT in vain.
All one has to do is to believe.

Are you saying the only value of the OT is to prove that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ?

And you have yet to answer: How is atonement made for every sin?

 

[Elin]

As it's written, Cornelius and his family were devout, God fearing and prayed to God regularly.
As it's reality, Cornelius had not at that point read any of the NT writings - whether or not NT writings said the unclean were clean.

Your point?

 

[chubbena]

Okay, so seeing it from a flesh standpoint how soon are we guilty of not being able to perform this type of love?

That is what Paul is saying in 1Cor.12:31 about a more excellent way. And that is 1 cor. 13:13 Love and not of the flesh ever because you and I both know we can't do this type of love. Now we try in the Spiritual gifts and feel good about ourselves or not, dependent on whether anyone else notices me.
God is Love true Love and is only revealed by God's Spirit, not flesh. And is beyond all the gifts. Remember Paul saying, that the gifts will pass and we will move on into maturity in Father's love spread abroad through out our new being that started at the new heart of flesh that God by the resurrected Christ gave us. God's imputed righteousness, not ours as Saul had his own read it in Phil 3. Put no confidence in flesh. Could this be our own, not just others, more importantly our own selves?

Well if prophecy is God's spokesperson and love is the way then we have many prophets in OT, who are (yes they are still speaking figuratively) able to love as described in 1 Cor 13:4-7, to learn from.
Let's see.
Love is patient - yes I keep my cool and explain what I know again and again and again just like Jesus.
Love is kind - see I'm kind to those agreeing with me!
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud - no I'm humble as can be.
It does not dishonor others - am I not doing a great job here or what?
it is not self-seeking - we are all grown-ups here so no identity crisis.
It's not easily angered - no, I'm not angry. If I do it's all righteous anger.
it keeps no record of wrongs - I don't remember saying anything wrong ever.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth - and rejoice all the more with like minded.[SUP]
[/SUP]It always protects - here the Bible taught me to get offensive protecting my truth.
always trusts - that I'm the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit.
always hopes - that others slip so I can attack.
always perseveres - hoping others get tired arguing so I win.
Not bad I'd say.

 

[Elin]

Well if prophecy is God's spokesperson and love is the way then we have many prophets in OT, who are (yes they are still speaking figuratively) able to love as described in 1 Cor 13:4-7, to learn from.
Let's see.
Love is patient - yes I keep my cool and explain what I know again and again and again just like Jesus.
Love is kind - see I'm kind to those agreeing with me!
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud - no I'm humble as can be.
It does not dishonor others - am I not doing a great job here or what?
it is not self-seeking - we are all grown-ups here so no identity crisis.
It's not easily angered - no, I'm not angry. If I do it's all righteous anger.
it keeps no record of wrongs - I don't remember saying anything wrong ever.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth - and rejoice all the more with like minded.[SUP]
[/SUP]It always protects - here the Bible taught me to get offensive protecting my truth.
always trusts - that I'm the only one inspired by the Holy Spirit.
always hopes - that others slip so I can attack.
always perseveres - hoping others get tired arguing so I win.
Not bad I'd say.

I'm wondering what knowing this mindset so well reveals. . .

 

[Drett]

You could apply Pascal's wager on following the law. There is so much evidence that points to the law being valid today. Jesus telling his followers to learn the law from the Pharisees (do as they say not do). The apostles continued to follow the law long after Jesus ascended. (Peter referring to unclean meat) What if you got it wrong when it comes to the law ?

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

What if you got it wrong when it comes to the law ?

Then we're all damned, anyway. No one can keep it. "Pascal's wager" would give us all a 0 chance of getting to Heaven.

And why did Jesus die, if we still have to keep the law? What is even the point of Jesus being born, let alone dying,, or even the entire New Testament, if we still have to keep the law? If you believe like that, why not just become a Jew? Oh wait, I forgot, there's no such thing anymore since the temple got destroyed (sure they pretend to keep some laws, but they can't keep all of them). I wonder why God would let the Jew's temple get destroyed, if He really wanted us all to become Jews?

I think logically, you have to conclude that either God doesn't want us to become Jews (keep the Mosaic law), or that He isn't all powerful, and couldn't stop the destruction of the temple. If the former, it will point you to Jesus for salvation. If the latter, you're looking at a false god.

 

[Drett]

Then we're all damned, anyway. No one can keep it. "Pascal's wager" would give us all a 0 chance of getting to Heaven.

And why did Jesus die, if we still have to keep the law? What is even the point of Jesus being born, let alone dying,, or even the entire New Testament, if we still have to keep the law? If you believe like that, why not just become a Jew? Oh wait, I forgot, there's no such thing anymore since the temple got destroyed (sure they pretend to keep some laws, but they can't keep all of them). I wonder why God would let the Jew's temple get destroyed, if He really wanted us all to become Jews?

I think logically, you have to conclude that either God doesn't want us to become Jews (keep the Mosaic law), or that He isn't all powerful, and couldn't stop the destruction of the temple. If the former, it will point you to Jesus for salvation. If the latter, you're looking at a false god.

No one can keep the law that is correct. We still need the grace of God to get to heaven but we also need to attempt to keep the law. It is what all the prophets did. Jesus is a good example in keeping the law.