What laws given in the OT should be tossed out?

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Deade

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Dec 17, 2017
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#21
Paul tells us we are to die with Christ, so as Christ died for our sin so do we.

As forgiven and righteous humans through Christ, we are to now obey law in spirit rather than just legalistically. It is explained thoroughly in Romans 6 through 8. In the gospels we are given a vivid picture of a man all dressed in old clothes parading the streets to announce that he is in prayer and told that isn't the way.

Based on this, the church has tossed out a lot of the OT like the feasts. They have taken celebrations given the world by demons originally and changing the meaning of them to reflect Christianity. All the rituals that were given Israel to help them live according to God's plan were tossed. Paul tells us to listen to the Holy Spirit instead, so we are to do what circumcision and eating only clean food was to lead to without the guidance of the rituals.

At the same time, Christ told us He and the Father were one, they are in complete agreement.

So what does God want us to obey and what to toss of commands God gives in His word.

Please don't do that old idea that scripture was written for Jews, gentiles aren't to listen to God. In this thread, how about accepting that God created us all and speaks to us all, not just to Jews.
Well Blick, I always ask myself when a statute was implemented and for what reason was it implemented. After all it was preincarnate Jesus interacting with all the patriarchs of old. To my surprise many of God's commands were for our own good.

The Sabbath was sanctified at creation, and no one in the New Testament said to stop honoring it. Even the clean food ordinances were given before the Law at Sinai, the first reference was given as Noah was collecting animals for the ark (see Gen. 7:2,3).

I get that we are fully under grace and that doing things within the law will not save us. But contrary to what some say, it will not kill us either. If you don't think the Sabbath is important to Satan, just start trying to honor it. Satan will have everyone turn against you for that, starting with your family. Remember this also, the Sabbath was a sign [think mark] commandment.

Exo. 31:13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."

SIGN = H226 Strong' Reference number.
אוֹת
'ôth
oth
Probably from H225 (in the sense of appearing); a signal (literally or figuratively), as a flag, beacon, monument, omen, prodigy, evidence, etc.: - mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.

We know of another sign/mark, right? In the forehead or the right hand. How we think and work.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#22
Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "“This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them.”

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
8,912
803
113
#23
Paul tells us we are to die with Christ, so as Christ died for our sin so do we.

As forgiven and righteous humans through Christ, we are to now obey law in spirit rather than just legalistically. It is explained thoroughly in Romans 6 through 8. In the gospels we are given a vivid picture of a man all dressed in old clothes parading the streets to announce that he is in prayer and told that isn't the way.

Based on this, the church has tossed out a lot of the OT like the feasts. They have taken celebrations given the world by demons originally and changing the meaning of them to reflect Christianity. All the rituals that were given Israel to help them live according to God's plan were tossed. Paul tells us to listen to the Holy Spirit instead, so we are to do what circumcision and eating only clean food was to lead to without the guidance of the rituals.

At the same time, Christ told us He and the Father were one, they are in complete agreement.

So what does God want us to obey and what to toss of commands God gives in His word.

Please don't do that old idea that scripture was written for Jews, gentiles aren't to listen to God. In this thread, how about accepting that God created us all and speaks to us all, not just to Jews.
To my knowledge, we are not under OT law. We not practice animal sacrifice. But I do not know If that mean we toss It, It is Being fulfilled, now we have new covenant.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#24
To my knowledge, we are not under OT law. We not practice animal sacrifice. But I do not know If that mean we toss It, It is Being fulfilled, now we have new covenant.
Psalm 51:16-17, “For You do not desire sacrifice, or I would give it; You do not delight in ascending offering. The sacrifices of the Mighty One are a broken spirit, A heart broken and crushed, O Mighty One, These You do not despise.”

Psalm 40:6-8, “Sacrifice and meal offering You did not desire; You have opened my ears; Ascending offering and sin offering You did not ask for. (Heb 10:5-6) Then I said, “See, I have come; In the scroll of the Book it is prescribed for me. I have delighted to do Your pleasure, O my Mighty One, And Your Torah is within my heart.” (Ps 37:31, Ps 119:11, Is 51:7, Heb 10:7-9)

and the one that put an end to sacrifice by offering up Himself:

Isaiah/Yeshayahu 53 1, "Who has believed our report? And to whom was the arm of יהוה revealed?"2, "For He grew up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or splendor that we should look upon Him, nor appearance that we should desire Him –"3, "despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and knowing sickness. And as one from whom the face is hidden, being despised, and we did not consider Him."4, "Truly, He has borne our sicknesses and carried our pains. Yet we reckoned Him smitten·, stricken by Yah, and afflicted."5, "But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our crookednesses. The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed."6, "We all, like sheep, went astray, each one of us has turned to his own way. And יהוה has laid on Him the crookedness of us all."7, "He was oppressed and He was afflicted, but He did not open His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, but He did not open His mouth."8, "He was taken from prison and from judgment. And as for His generation, who considered that He shall be cut off from the land of the living? For the transgression of My people He was stricken."9, "And He was appointed a burial-site with the wrong, and with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was deceit in His mouth.10, "But יהוה was pleased to crush Him, He laid sickness on Him, that when He made Himself an offering for guilt, He would see a seed, He would prolong His days and the pleasure of יהוה prosper in His hand."11, "He would see the result of the suffering of His life and be satisfied. Through His knowledge My righteous Servant makes many righteous, and He bears their crookednesses."12, "Therefore I give Him a portion among the great, and He divides the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His being unto death, and He was counted with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

and He said this:

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
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#25
I want to provide some Scripture about the new (chadash) Covenant, try to read it for what it says rather than mentally altrering it to fit common doctrine:

Jeremiah 31:31-40,31 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “when I shall make a renewed covenant with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah, (Heb 8:8-12, Heb 10:16-17) "32 not like the covenant I made with their fathers in the day when I strengthened their hand to bring them out of the land of Mitsrayim, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,” declares יהוה. 33 “For this is the covenant I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, declares יהוה: I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts. And I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people."34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares יהוה. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.”"35 Thus said יהוה, who gives the sun for a light by day, and the laws of the moon and the stars for a light by night, who stirs up the sea, and its waves roar – יהוה of hosts is His Name:"36 “If these laws vanish from before Me,” declares יהוה, “then the seed of Yisra’ĕl shall also cease from being a nation before Me forever.”"37 Thus said יהוה, “If the heavens above could be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I would also cast off all the seed of Yisra’ĕl for all that they have done,” declares יהוה."38 “See, the days are coming,” declares יהוה, “that the city shall be built for יהוה from the Tower of Ḥanan’ĕl to the Corner Gate."39 “And the measuring line shall again extend straight ahead to the hill Garĕḇ, then it shall turn toward Go‛ah."40 “And all the valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the wadi Qiḏron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, is to be set-apart to יהוה. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down any more forever.”

Isaiah 45:22-25, “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am Mighty, and there is none else. I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue swear. One shall say, ‘Only in יהוה do I have righteousness and strength’ – he comes to Him. And all those displeased with Him shall be put to shame. In יהוה all the seed of Yisra’yl shall be declared right and glory.”

Psalms 105:6-10, “O seed of Aḇraham His servant, Children of Ya‛aqoḇ, His chosen ones! He is יהוה our Strength; His right-rulings are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, The Word He commanded, for a thousand generations, The covenant He made with Aḇraham, And His oath to Yitsḥaq, And established it to Ya‛aqoḇ for a law, To Yisra’yl – an everlasting covenant.”
 

Deade

Called of God
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#26
You can't toss out what has already vanished away.

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Here is you reference in Hebrews:

Heb. 8:9-13 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Well, this looks familiar. Where did I see this before?

Jer. 31:31-34 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Well, are we at the place where we won't have to teach a neighbor because everyone knows how to serve the Lord? No, This prophecy is for the millennial reign. Yet future. Hmmm...
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#27
Here is you reference in Hebrews:

Heb. 8:9-13 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away."

Well, this looks familiar. Where did I see this before?

Jer. 31:31-34 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more."

Well, are we at the place where we won't have to teach a neighbor because everyone knows how to serve the Lord? No, This prophecy is for the millennial reign. Yet future. Hmmm...
Hmmm - so what you are stating incorrectly is that the New Covenant is for the millennium - wrong.

Hebrews said the new is in, the old was waxing old and was ready to decay when the letter to the Hebrews was penned.

You seem to be implying that the new is basically the same as the old - not so - re-read what it says "Not according to the covenant".

Let me explain what "Not according" means by using a modern translation:

Jer 31:32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.

Meet the new covenant same as the old covenant.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#28
Exo. 31:13 "Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you."

.
This is a sign between God and the children of Israel - yet you and others attempt to squeeze the Gentiles into your view that the Church has replaced Israel in the economy of God. Simply read the verse! Girls covenant with Israel is both eternal and unconditional.

Exodus 19:8 shows that Israel insisted that God place them under bondage to the law. ‘All that the LORD hath spoken, we will do’

Dumber words were never spoken.
 
Jul 10, 2018
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#29
This is a sign between God and the children of Israel - yet you and others attempt to squeeze the Gentiles into your view that the Church has replaced Israel in the economy of God. Simply read the verse! Girls covenant with Israel is both eternal and unconditional.

Exodus 19:8 shows that Israel insisted that God place them under bondage to the law. ‘All that the LORD hath spoken, we will do’

Dumber words were never spoken.
Dumber? He who calls one a fool is in danger of what?? Yet the Bible says a fool rejects God. It can say it. For it judges righteously. You have no right or authority to judge anyone or the Bible.
Every time I come here I see easy subjects beat to death with bickering of those who have not studied the Good Word, taken to heart the simply stated by 1rst, Jesus Himself, God, the prophets and the disciples.
When one truly makes a serious effort to try and understand what the Book says, leaving all taught preconceived notions on the shelf, it really is quite simple to understand.
The old law has not waxed old.
Christians do not get a free pass to sin. And they all do. Then those sinners have the gull to impose judgements on others as if they are high and mighty simply for claiming to believe. Lol. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commands. If you sin, you don't love him. At least not with a love that can be considered Godly.

Did you know there are over 50 verses that directly state "all peoples are saved".
That there are several that state everyone sins and dies sinners.
That everyone needs a Savior.

The most disgusting thing is a sinner proclaiming to be saved while he is still a sinner. lol
Though he will be saved, he is not saved yet. That happens on the last day.

It is written that the devil is the ruler of this world. Quoted from Jesus no less.
The road to destruction is wide.
The road to the Kingdom is narrow and only a few found it.
Jesus, Enoch and Elijah. And only because God chose to be with them always.
It was by nothing they did that earned Gods' presence. They did only good
because of Gods presence.

The true Gospel of Jesus is not preached here. There is only confusion, bickering
and false testimony of what is written and why.

Jesus loves all human beings and will save every last one of us.
When you read about the wicked, it is about the others that are
here with us and have been here in the past. Fallen angels and
the Nephilim, the children of the fallen when they came into the
daughters of men and giants were born. You would have to read
the first Book of the Bible to get more understanding on that.
But it was removed by the Romans when the first translations
into English were scribed. And when you take its words to
heart, as I highly suggest you do, the entire Bible takes on
the true context and not the garbage spewed by modern
Christianity.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#30
Paul tells us we are to die with Christ, so as Christ died for our sin so do we.

As forgiven and righteous humans through Christ, we are to now obey law in spirit rather than just legalistically. It is explained thoroughly in Romans 6 through 8. In the gospels we are given a vivid picture of a man all dressed in old clothes parading the streets to announce that he is in prayer and told that isn't the way.

Based on this, the church has tossed out a lot of the OT like the feasts. They have taken celebrations given the world by demons originally and changing the meaning of them to reflect Christianity. All the rituals that were given Israel to help them live according to God's plan were tossed. Paul tells us to listen to the Holy Spirit instead, so we are to do what circumcision and eating only clean food was to lead to without the guidance of the rituals.

At the same time, Christ told us He and the Father were one, they are in complete agreement.

So what does God want us to obey and what to toss of commands God gives in His word.

Please don't do that old idea that scripture was written for Jews, gentiles aren't to listen to God. In this thread, how about accepting that God created us all and speaks to us all, not just to Jews.
GOD said that If you love me then keep my commandments and I would say that for the born again christian this means the two commandments and not the ten commandments.
 
Jul 10, 2018
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#31
GOD said that If you love me then keep my commandments and I would say that for the born again christian this means the two commandments and not the ten commandments.
He also said,
By keeping those two commandments, you keep them all..
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#32
The purpose of the Mosaic Law was not to save, but rather to show the need for God's grace and to show us our sins:

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:22-25 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Read the book of Galatians that should set you straight from this error that you are teaching. (If you indeed are teaching that we must keep the Torah, and all of it, today)

Here is a quote from C. H. Spurgeon:
"The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#33
This is a sign between God and the children of Israel - yet you and others attempt to squeeze the Gentiles into your view that the Church has replaced Israel in the economy of God. Simply read the verse! Girls covenant with Israel is both eternal and unconditional.

Exodus 19:8 shows that Israel insisted that God place them under bondage to the law. ‘All that the LORD hath spoken, we will do’

Dumber words were never spoken.
I am referring to Israel as dumb.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#35
"An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", plus many others.
This law was superseded under grace . . .

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Romans 12:19).
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
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#36
Torah/prophets and the law were all completed/fulfilled in the 1st century AD when Jerusalem was surrounded by armies in the war of 66 - 70 AD

Matt 5:18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Luke 21:20 But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near.

Luke 21:22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.

So the law passed in the days of vengeance that came upon 1st century apostate Jerusalem for shedding the innocent blood of the prophets.
 
Sep 9, 2018
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#38
He also said,
By keeping those two commandments, you keep them all..
The two great commandments are actually the whole ten.

The first refers to the first four commandments and the second refers to the last six. God and neighbour.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
2,866
896
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#39
Explain how you are not a Judaizer?

Read Acts 15, especially verses 28 and 29. Then read Paul's letter to the Galatians.

Christians are not under the Law as given to Moses. We are not bound to the feasts, the holy days, the ceremonial and civil laws, the offerings, or any other part of it. The Law is fulfilled in Jesus Christ... fulfilled like a mortgage fully paid, with nothing left outstanding. Those in Christ are filled with the Holy Spirit, Who works in us to become like Christ in our thoughts, words, and actions. In Christ we are made righteous and sealed for redemption. The Law adds nothing to this finished work. The attempt to adhere to the Law actually takes us away from the grace of God.
Because I am nor under the law for my salvation, I am most certainly under the law for my guidance. You can live your life willy nilly, never listening to the Lord but that way is not for me.

What Christ fulfilled was all the prophets told about Him, Christ did not change the way His Father and My God created the world to be.

God is love, His spirit rules the spiritual world. Every law is an expression of that. Everything that is spoken of the law in the 119th psalm is true of the law. It blesses the people who love the Lord.

If this makes me a Judaizer then YES, I love the Lord and I love the law. The idea that God will not forgive me of my sins because I love Him and want to obey Him is your idea, I have been told by God that through the blood of His Son I will be forgiven my sins. I take the word of God, not your word.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,707
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#40
Because I am nor under the law for my salvation, I am most certainly under the law for my guidance. You can live your life willy nilly, never listening to the Lord but that way is not for me.

What Christ fulfilled was all the prophets told about Him, Christ did not change the way His Father and My God created the world to be.

God is love, His spirit rules the spiritual world. Every law is an expression of that. Everything that is spoken of the law in the 119th psalm is true of the law. It blesses the people who love the Lord.

If this makes me a Judaizer then YES, I love the Lord and I love the law. The idea that God will not forgive me of my sins because I love Him and want to obey Him is your idea, I have been told by God that through the blood of His Son I will be forgiven my sins. I take the word of God, not your word.
no, you do not take the Word of God the Father. God the Father said of the Son, on the mount of transfiguration , " this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, hear Him!

this elevates and seperates the words in red over the rest of Scripture.

you and the other judeaizers insist on hearing the words of the Father at Sinai. you do not obey the Father and hear the Son, who says to believe in Him for eternal life.
not keep the Law for eternal life.