What makes a liberal Christian?

[coca2113]

I guess ill throw in my two cents, even though the thread got a bit off topic. I am going to provide a *gasp* non-negetive description of liberal christianity compared to conservetive christianity:

A Typlical Ultra-Extreme Conservetive: Takes the bible 100% literally. god created everything in 7 days, no ifs ands or buts, and if you dont believe that, you arent christian. Evolution, tattoos (while curiously, many of them have their ears peirced), homosexuality, any amounts of alcohol, and anything else the bible says is wrong is wrong, non negotible (the bible also says eating shrimp and wearing blended fabrics is wrong, yet many of them go about doing that as well). Many of them don't seem to understand that the laws of the old testement changed when jesus came, thats why we dont stone people anymore. Believes that, if i may quote an earlier post, any attempt to save, develop a relationship, or love any kind of sinner will only end up with you sinning too. Can be extremely hypocritical. Can develop into hate groups, such as the Westboro Cult

A Typical Ultra-Extreme Liberal: Takes most of the bible as figurative. sees stories and parables instead of historical fact. Believes that anyone can be a christian, even if they practice substance abuse, sexual immorality, or violent crime. Accept anyone into their churches, and can take part in unconventional services, such as same sex marraige. Teach to become tolerant of anything, and can be overtly leniant and blind sided. Can develop into churches that actually arent churches at all, and even cults.

Now, what is the lesson here? That both sides are equally silly. One is hypocritical, and the other has no spirit. What we need to do is look to christ for motivation. If you believe the bible to be 100% fact, then dont skip the parts that would make your life inconvenient (such as no shrimp, no peircings, no blended fabrics, being quarentined for a week at the sight of a zit, not using anything that claims to clean mold). If you ask me, a 100% fact interperetation is probably not what the intention of the bible was. Why do you think that jesus explained things in parables? on the other side, a 100% figurative interperetation is equally not the intent. The things that jesus did directly say should be taken as fact. The concept of not especially loving sinners as one fellow posted is simply preposterous. He seemed to imply that something such as hanging out with a group of homosexuals is bound to make you gay. someone who believes that obviously has little faith in their spiritual integrity. Do people who go on mission trips to afghanistan or iraq come back as al-queda operatives? absolutely not.

In short, being an extreme to either side is not the right path to choose. it is important to find a healthy balance, and to stick to what the bible and jesus say about how to live our lives. Christians don't live christ-like lives, because we are sinners. no one can be truly christ-like. instead, we have to love everyone equally, as god does. all sin is equal in god's eyes. blurting out a swear every few days is just as bad as murdering children.In my opinion, thinking yourself better than "those awful sinners" is the biggest sin that seperates true followers of christ from people who claim to be christian, but dont follow what the bible says.

 

[coca2113]

Personally I like the phrase the ``Christian Left`` I find these are the people who selectively throw around the phrase ``thou shall not judge`` when they are trying to guilt people into giving to unGodly causes like Haiti or demanding Christian support for gay rights or instant and complete forgiveness for everyone`s sexual sins. Strangely they think nothing about judging people on causes more in tune with their secular values.

oh, and persecuted (sorry if im a bit late), you are so right. Haiti is such an ungodly cause. all those children buried alive in the rubble don't deserve our help because some of haiti's people do ungodly things. if that happened here in america, then it would be a godly cause because america is a godly country. i mean, look at the lack of corruption, no drug trade, no hate groups, no violent crime. We are so much better than haiti! It's not like we consume over 60% of the world's hard drugs, or anything like that. disaster relief in haiti is not a godly cause? well, then, i guess hurricane katrina or the tornadoes in the south where just coincidence. but, since those are natural disasters, they don't deserve any kind of relief. haiti doesnt deserve any of our help, and neither did all of the children who died because of people who thought it was an "ungodly" cause.

 

[persecuted]

oh, and persecuted (sorry if im a bit late), you are so right. Haiti is such an ungodly cause. all those children buried alive in the rubble don't deserve our help because some of haiti's people do ungodly things. if that happened here in america, then it would be a godly cause because america is a godly country. i mean, look at the lack of corruption, no drug trade, no hate groups, no violent crime. We are so much better than haiti! It's not like we consume over 60% of the world's hard drugs, or anything like that. disaster relief in haiti is not a godly cause? well, then, i guess hurricane katrina or the tornadoes in the south where just coincidence. but, since those are natural disasters, they don't deserve any kind of relief. haiti doesnt deserve any of our help, and neither did all of the children who died because of people who thought it was an "ungodly" cause.

Oh good, finally the angry response I so dreamed of. Where to begin? Guess with a question. What do you mean all of the children who died because of people who thought it was an "ungodly" cause? It seems to me billions of dollars were raised and those who did such admitted a year later they hadn't changed a thing. Apparently the big issue was how to stop the mass raping going on in camps that was causing yet another population boom of unwanted illegitmate children. Good old Haiti, where instead of making any attempts to dig themselves out or rebuild, the energy was put into more rape. Good old Haiti, where all the hundreds of thousands of orphans were NOT created because their parents died in the earthquake, no, they were already there orphaned due to the long standing moral decadence of the locals. When I look at Haiti i think its about as good a cause as giving to the local crack house or maybe a Hell's Angels Club House. Why is it that people like yourself believe that in countries where they fornicate their population up to unmanagable levels, its MY responsiblity to rush in and bail everyone out???

Further, I personally believe that the 2008 collapse of the American economy destroyed a minimum of 50,000 children. How so? All the responsible people who make sure they have the economic means to have children stopped and didn't do such because they got economicially screwed over. How is that less of a catastrophe than Haiti? I like the way people like yourself expect complete selflessness from your countryman but think other cultures get the right to do whatever they please.

Finally, since we've all read the bible on here, I keep wondering why it is that the bible is full of incidences where God engaged in mass destruction for the stated reason that a community of some sort had sinned yet I'm supposed to believe that the Haiti earthquake happened for the wonderful purpose that we could all join hands get yippy skippy and turn Haiti around.... yet, despite those proclamations, the reverse happened where it was like someone put a big veil around the island and denied all the eager help from people like yourself. But, my christian friend, before you get too angry at me for this assessment, remember I'm just some trashy nobody with extremely limited means who really CAN'T make a difference in any of these countries whilst God could snap his fingers and repair Haiti in a second.

 

[Megatron]

Oh good, finally the angry response I so dreamed of. Where to begin? Guess with a question. What do you mean all of the children who died because of people who thought it was an "ungodly" cause? It seems to me billions of dollars were raised and those who did such admitted a year later they hadn't changed a thing. Apparently the big issue was how to stop the mass raping going on in camps that was causing yet another population boom of unwanted illegitmate children. Good old Haiti, where instead of making any attempts to dig themselves out or rebuild, the energy was put into more rape. Good old Haiti, where all the hundreds of thousands of orphans were NOT created because their parents died in the earthquake, no, they were already there orphaned due to the long standing moral decadence of the locals. When I look at Haiti i think its about as good a cause as giving to the local crack house or maybe a Hell's Angels Club House. Why is it that people like yourself believe that in countries where they fornicate their population up to unmanagable levels, its MY responsiblity to rush in and bail everyone out???

Further, I personally believe that the 2008 collapse of the American economy destroyed a minimum of 50,000 children. How so? All the responsible people who make sure they have the economic means to have children stopped and didn't do such because they got economicially screwed over. How is that less of a catastrophe than Haiti? I like the way people like yourself expect complete selflessness from your countryman but think other cultures get the right to do whatever they please.

Finally, since we've all read the bible on here, I keep wondering why it is that the bible is full of incidences where God engaged in mass destruction for the stated reason that a community of some sort had sinned yet I'm supposed to believe that the Haiti earthquake happened for the wonderful purpose that we could all join hands get yippy skippy and turn Haiti around.... yet, despite those proclamations, the reverse happened where it was like someone put a big veil around the island and denied all the eager help from people like yourself. But, my christian friend, before you get too angry at me for this assessment, remember I'm just some trashy nobody with extremely limited means who really CAN'T make a difference in any of these countries whilst God could snap his fingers and repair Haiti in a second.

I have to say this is pretty much right on the entire way through, never thought of it that way but i tend to agree

 

[rainacorn]

Dismissing the question about liberal Christians by claiming conservative Christians are all Pharisees or something is a strawman if I've ever seen one.

A Typical Ultra-Extreme Liberal: Takes most of the bible as figurative. sees stories and parables instead of historical fact. Believes that anyone can be a christian, even if they practice substance abuse, sexual immorality, or violent crime. Accept anyone into their churches, and can take part in unconventional services, such as same sex marraige. Teach to become tolerant of anything, and can be overtly leniant and blind sided. Can develop into churches that actually arent churches at all, and even cults.

That's just regular liberal, man. There's nothing "Typical Ultra-Extreme" about it.

There is not 'little bit liberal' when it comes to Christianity. Truth is absolute OR it is relative. It can't be a little of both.

 

[coca2113]

well, I tend to be fairly liberal, and i dont agree with the majority of so called "liberal doctrines". For instance, i don't think that homosexuals should be able to get married in the faith. BUT, i believe that in this country, they should have the right to get legally married, simply because it is a basic human right. Liberals tend to justify their political views with their faith, as do conservetives. exept conservetives believe that EVERYTHING should be exactly as the bible says. They have this concept that america is god's country, when america doesn't have a religion.

 

[distinctiveministry]

Someone actually got the thread sorta back on topic?

 

[coca2113]

Oh good, finally the angry response I so dreamed of. Where to begin? Guess with a question. What do you mean all of the children who died because of people who thought it was an "ungodly" cause? It seems to me billions of dollars were raised and those who did such admitted a year later they hadn't changed a thing. Apparently the big issue was how to stop the mass raping going on in camps that was causing yet another population boom of unwanted illegitmate children. Good old Haiti, where instead of making any attempts to dig themselves out or rebuild, the energy was put into more rape. Good old Haiti, where all the hundreds of thousands of orphans were NOT created because their parents died in the earthquake, no, they were already there orphaned due to the long standing moral decadence of the locals. When I look at Haiti i think its about as good a cause as giving to the local crack house or maybe a Hell's Angels Club House. Why is it that people like yourself believe that in countries where they fornicate their population up to unmanagable levels, its MY responsiblity to rush in and bail everyone out???

Further, I personally believe that the 2008 collapse of the American economy destroyed a minimum of 50,000 children. How so? All the responsible people who make sure they have the economic means to have children stopped and didn't do such because they got economicially screwed over. How is that less of a catastrophe than Haiti? I like the way people like yourself expect complete selflessness from your countryman but think other cultures get the right to do whatever they please.

Finally, since we've all read the bible on here, I keep wondering why it is that the bible is full of incidences where God engaged in mass destruction for the stated reason that a community of some sort had sinned yet I'm supposed to believe that the Haiti earthquake happened for the wonderful purpose that we could all join hands get yippy skippy and turn Haiti around.... yet, despite those proclamations, the reverse happened where it was like someone put a big veil around the island and denied all the eager help from people like yourself. But, my christian friend, before you get too angry at me for this assessment, remember I'm just some trashy nobody with extremely limited means who really CAN'T make a difference in any of these countries whilst God could snap his fingers and repair Haiti in a second.

OH, i get it. so, since the country is such a sin-filled cesspool, then everyone there deserves to die. gotcha. I mean, its not like North America consumes over 60% of the worlds hard drugs, or fornication and premarital sex run rampant. i mean, you can run through every channel of american or canadian television and you won't find a single instance of sin or sexual deviancy. so, by your logic, just because EVERYONE in that country are renegade rapists and stuff (i have no idea where all of this mass rape came from), then we obviously don't need to help the country. And since alot of the children there are orphans and unwanted, then their lives don't matter? America's population is growing in HUGE amounts. When katrina came through new orleans, new orleans had alot of crime and whatnot. so, i guess since EVERYONE there was a hardened criminal, then helping all of those evil children that deserved to die would be an ungodly cause? In short, you believe that only cultures that are godly deserve help. believe me pal, countries do as they please, unless you want a theocracy. and those work great, just look at Iran. And beleive me, i am not angry. Just a bit disturbed.

 

[HAWKEYE1958]

that's right jonathan.

One size does not fit all Christians, some are liberal and others conservative. Often this comes down to how we were raised.

 

[dmdave17]

As Christians, we should stay out of politics as much as possible. It doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative, what matters is your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and if you are keeping his commandments. Can you do this within one political party? I don't think so, no.

Dear foundthetruth,

I must respectfully disagree with your premise. The reason our country is in the mess it is today is because too many Christians adopted your attitude. The enemy is deeply involved in politics and he has an agenda. The further this country drifts away from its founding principles, the more likely it becomes that evil will triumph totally.

Regardless of our relationship with Jesus, I don't think we want to go back to the days of Nero.

Take a look at what's happening in this country today, and think about it.

God bless you.

 

[dmdave17]

"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron.

 

[Kathleen]

OH, i get it. so, since the country is such a sin-filled cesspool, then everyone there deserves to die. gotcha. I mean, its not like North America consumes over 60% of the worlds hard drugs, or fornication and premarital sex run rampant. i mean, you can run through every channel of american or canadian television and you won't find a single instance of sin or sexual deviancy. so, by your logic, just because EVERYONE in that country are renegade rapists and stuff (i have no idea where all of this mass rape came from), then we obviously don't need to help the country. And since alot of the children there are orphans and unwanted, then their lives don't matter? America's population is growing in HUGE amounts. When katrina came through new orleans, new orleans had alot of crime and whatnot. so, i guess since EVERYONE there was a hardened criminal, then helping all of those evil children that deserved to die would be an ungodly cause? In short, you believe that only cultures that are godly deserve help. believe me pal, countries do as they please, unless you want a theocracy. and those work great, just look at Iran. And beleive me, i am not angry. Just a bit disturbed.

I think to sum up what he was saying in a more gentel way...is that the country is so full of sin and corruption, that all the money that people did give, hasnt really had an effect, it never really did reach those most in need. It went toward sinful things.

Thats why i didnt donate anyways.

 

[Megatron]

"Liberal Christian" is an oxymoron.

only if youre an ox or a moron...since youre on the internet im going to assume you aren't a castrated male cattle that only leaves one option.

Truthbe told its perfectly simple to live a life as a liberal democrat and as a christian simultaneously. its not like jesus went either way. though his many talks of helping the less fortunate, and putting others above yourself does offer some interesting clues...

 

[coca2113]

I think to sum up what he was saying in a more gentel way...is that the country is so full of sin and corruption, that all the money that people did give, hasnt really had an effect, it never really did reach those most in need. It went toward sinful things.

Thats why i didnt donate anyways.

well, even if only 10% of the money you give goes to helping someone in need, and the other 90% is wasted, isnt it worth it?

 

[needmesomejesus]

As Christians, we should stay out of politics as much as possible. It doesn't matter if you are liberal or conservative, what matters is your relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and if you are keeping his commandments. Can you do this within one political party? I don't think so, no.

If Christians don't get involved in politics, we shouldn't be surprised that the way our government is run is not always pleasing to the Lord.

 

[needmesomejesus]

I'd say I'm liberal because I agree more with the Liberal side than the conservative side.

 

[rainacorn]

I think if you're going to claim to be a POLITICAL liberal, then you should say you are a political liberal. Make the distinction because I think there's a very clear difference between religious conviction and political opinion.

 

[needmesomejesus]

I think if you're going to claim to be a POLITICAL liberal, then you should say you are a political liberal. Make the distinction because I think there's a very clear difference between religious conviction and political opinion.

I guess I'd say I'm both in many ways. Although i don't agree with all liberal opinions in both religious convictions and politics

 

[Megatron]

well, even if only 10% of the money you give goes to helping someone in need, and the other 90% is wasted, isnt it worth it?

No, not really. Might as well, just given the 10% in the first place.

 

[persecuted]

OH, i get it. so, since the country is such a sin-filled cesspool, then everyone there deserves to die. gotcha. I mean, its not like North America consumes over 60% of the worlds hard drugs, or fornication and premarital sex run rampant. i mean, you can run through every channel of american or canadian television and you won't find a single instance of sin or sexual deviancy. so, by your logic, just because EVERYONE in that country are renegade rapists and stuff (i have no idea where all of this mass rape came from), then we obviously don't need to help the country. And since alot of the children there are orphans and unwanted, then their lives don't matter? America's population is growing in HUGE amounts. When katrina came through new orleans, new orleans had alot of crime and whatnot. so, i guess since EVERYONE there was a hardened criminal, then helping all of those evil children that deserved to die would be an ungodly cause? In short, you believe that only cultures that are godly deserve help. believe me pal, countries do as they please, unless you want a theocracy. and those work great, just look at Iran. And beleive me, i am not angry. Just a bit disturbed.

I already covered most of what you say so I am not going to repeat myself, you can just read my post again more carefully.MUCH more carefully because you're obviously adding in what you want far beyond what I said. The only comment I will add is a question of why it is that you think places like Canada and the U.S. AREN'T already in jeopardy before God for our behaviours. You're right, the most Haiti like place in the U.S. got whacked pretty hard didn't it? But you yourself already described New Orleans so I won't.

You accuse me of deciding who "deserves" help. Well the problem I have with your outllook is you seem to think everyone actually is capable of constantly propping up the whole world. Seems to me the U.S. had a massive economic collapse a few years ago and is dangerously positioned on the verge of something even bigger with its massive debt. (Don't worry I'm sure Canada will spiral down with you... and England, France, Germany, Japan,etc.) Where is all of the money you want supposed to come from? Especially since the middle class has been systematically shredded over the past 20 years in most western nations. If money is becoming more and more scarce and yet the world's population is rapidly growing, something is going to have to give, isn't it?

Yet people like yourself come begging for money for your causes and accusing people like myself of the most vile things you can come up with when your requests are denied and yet here I be not even able to afford to start my own family while you demand that I support everybody else's. So twisted.