What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

[h=1]What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

By being set free from the dangerous lies that salvation is an abstraction premised upon some kind of legal swap, and coming to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus Christ in which salvation is a manifest state of abiding in the Spirit of Spirit and thus walking and abiding in God.

No genuine Christian would ever commit suicide.[/h]

 

[seoulsearch]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

No genuine Christian would ever commit suicide.

I have heard this said countless times in my time of being a Christian.

As I keep up with this thread, I'm reminded of all the people I've known who were impacted by suicide: the two elderly members from my childhood church who took their own lives; a family friend whose mother committed suicide; and a woman I used to work with in a ministry for veterans, whose husband (a veteran himself who was suffering terribly) took his life in such a violent manner that the only thing they had left for her to identify were a few scraps of fabric and a few broken chips from his glasses; and so many others.

This is just my own personal belief but I don't believe that we, on the outside, can every fully gauge whether someone is a "genuine" Christian or not. I also believe that not every person who commits suicide is an unbeliever.

In every case, I know that God is sovereign... but I also hope for His understanding and mercy.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

I have heard this said countless times in my time of being a Christian.

As I keep up with this thread, I'm reminded of all the people I've known who were impacted by suicide: the two elderly members from my childhood church who took their own lives; a family friend whose mother committed suicide; and a woman I used to work with in a ministry for veterans, whose husband (a veteran himself who was suffering terribly) took his life in such a violent manner that the only thing they left for her to identify were a few scraps of fabric and a few broken chips from his glasses, and so on.

This is just my own personal belief but I don't believe that we, on the outside, can every fully gauge whether someone is a "genuine" Christian or not. I also believe that not every person who commits suicide is an unbeliever.

In every case, I know that God is sovereign... but I also hope for His understanding and mercy.

That person believes a child of God never sins,, and has reached sinless perfection.. So he would say no child of God would ever sin..

Consider the source..

 

[blue_ladybug]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

The statement in red is totally false. Why does it only have to be unbelievers that commit suicide? ANYONE can commit suicide, and that includes Christians. Christians and believers sin every day, and for some, that sin includes suicide. None of us here can judge who is or is not a "true" or "genuine" Christian, simply by the actions they display, or the thoughts they think about.

What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

By being set free from the dangerous lies that salvation is an abstraction premised upon some kind of legal swap, and coming to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus Christ in which salvation is a manifest state of abiding in the Spirit of Spirit and thus walking and abiding in God.

No genuine Christian would ever commit suicide.

 

[valiant]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

as his/her mind is disturbed and not working and thinking properly, probably nothing except the grace of God

 

[PennEd]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

By being set free from the dangerous lies that salvation is an abstraction premised upon some kind of legal swap, and coming to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus Christ in which salvation is a manifest state of abiding in the Spirit of Spirit and thus walking and abiding in God.

No genuine Christian would ever commit suicide.

I was thinking no "genuine" christian could be so cruel as to say that to brothers and sisters in the Lord, who have lost loved ones to mental illness.


Tell me. Would a "genuine" Christian commit ANY sin? Would any genuine Christian commit slow suicide acts, like smoking, getting fat, drinking, etc...?

Cause we ALL know those activities WILL lead to our death, so if we are engaging in them, isn't that a form of suicide?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Why is it that people think that Christians don't/won't/can't sin after being saved? Christians ARE still sinful humans after all. Still subject to temptations and sin. I know Christians who swear, many of them right here on this site. Does that mean they aren't genuine Christians? We are still filthy sinners and will not be perfect until we get to heaven. JMO

I was thinking no "genuine" christian could be so cruel as to say that to brothers and sisters in the Lord, who have lost loved ones to mental illness.


Tell me. Would a "genuine" Christian commit ANY sin? Would any genuine Christian commit slow suicide acts, like smoking, getting fat, drinking, etc...?

Cause we ALL know those activities WILL lead to our death, so if we are engaging in them, isn't that a form of suicide?

 

[PennEd]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Why is it that people think that Christians don't/won't/can't sin after being saved? Christians ARE still sinful humans after all. Still subject to temptations and sin. I know Christians who swear, many of them right here on this site. Does that mean they aren't genuine Christians? We are still filthy sinners and will not be perfect until we get to heaven. JMO

I hear what you are saying Blue, but I would differ that we are still filthy sinners. I think we still sin, but I believe the blood of Christ washes us clean of all our iniquities.

 

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

This is just my own personal belief but I don't believe that we, on the outside, can every fully gauge whether someone is a "genuine" Christian or not. I also believe that not every person who commits suicide is an unbeliever.

Of course we can. The Bible teaches...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John was taught directly by the Master Himself and John plainly stated that a Christian is manifest in that they do not sin. He who sins is of the devil. He who does what is right is righteous.

Suicide is a sin. Suicide is not righteous. A Christian would never commit suicide any more than a Christian would molest children, murder their neighbour, steal at the market, or watch pornography. It is pretty simple. It is just that many people don't want to forsake unrighteousness and thus cling to alternative beliefs in which they can engage in sin and not surely die.

Those whom tell people that a Christian can in fact commit suicide have blood on their hands, for they are promoting the idea that one can kill themselves and not be condemned.

[video=youtube;S9zyBIRrAl4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zyBIRrAl4[/video]

I know there is comfort in lies in numbers and that it is easy to choose something that tickles the ears, but truth is truth. He who sins is of the devil. The Bible does say that, and even Jesus spoke of that...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There is no way one can commit murder and not be of the devil. Sure the devil would have one believe otherwise but woe to those who swallow such an error.

 

[Grace777x70]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

By being set free from the dangerous lies that salvation is an abstraction premised upon some kind of legal swap, and coming to a knowledge of the truth and Jesus Christ in which salvation is a manifest state of abiding in the Spirit of Spirit and thus walking and abiding in God.

No genuine Christian would ever commit suicide.

Absolutely complete nonsense. Christians minds can be fouled up and they do stupid things.

I do agree with preaching the grace of God in Christ so that we can have our minds renewed to walk in the freedom that Christ bought for us with His blood. Suicide is a sickness of the head and of mixed up thinking and some of it can be made from the garbage like you have just said.



There is no such thing as sinless perfection in the flesh.

Have you ever sinned after coming to Christ? if so and we all know you have and still do in some form - then in your own religion - you are a child of the devil.

 

[truthhurts]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

My childhood church believed that if Saul was saved at one point, he lost his salvation through his disobedience to God and eventual suicide.

Am I misunderstanding, but would the Once Saved, Always Saved believers say that if Saul was truly saved, he still went to heaven, even though he "fell on his own sword"?

I know people who contemplate taking their own lives very seriously, and have for a long time.

Theoretically, if they are "true believers" or "truly saved"... their salvation cannot be lost, and they will still go to heaven?

How does an OT King living under the law come into the new Covenant and be saved under Jesus? The real question you should be asking your church is that....

 

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Absolutely complete nonsense. Christians minds can be fouled up and they do stupid things.

I do agree with preaching the grace of God in Christ so that we can have our minds renewed to walk in the freedom that Christ bought for us with His blood. Suicide is a sickness of the head and of mixed up thinking and some of it can be made from the garbage like you have just said.

There is no such thing as sinless perfection in the flesh.

Have you ever sinned after coming to Christ? if so and we all know you have and still do in some form - then in your own religion - you are a child of the devil.

Suicide is an evil thing.

John wrote...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is not nonsense and garbage to quote the Apostle John and advocate what he plainly taught.

Anyone abiding in Jesus Christ will not commit suicide, nor would they murder anyone, steal, bear false witness, etc. Being in Christ saves us from those things.

If you sin you are a slave to sin. Of you obey sin you are the servant of sin. Jesus came to set people free from sin, not give them assurance whilst they still serve the devil.

No one said anything about "sinless perfection in the flesh" except you. Whatever is "sinless perfection in the flesh"? Sounds like a strawman which you use to avoid discussing what the actual scriptures teach.

You even go so far as to imply that advocating righteousness as being essential makes one a child of the devil. Only the devil would tell someone to forsake wickedness and abide in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ in which one is truly set free from sin, both the condemnation and service of sin.

 

[Angela53510]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Your "respect" is misguided... OSAS is not taught in the New Testament.

1 Corinthians 3:16,17
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

"defile" here is to corrupt self, defile, destroy (Strongs G5351)

This is obviously written to Christians, and it's not just suicide that would make God destroy someone but also going back to live in sin and defile the body if one were to take up a sinful lifestyle again.

So you believe God decides to not abide by His own Word sometimes... which makes Him a liar?

They got that was by refusing to walk with the Lord. God says mankind is without excuse (Romans 1:20)

The "Force People" is strong in this one!

 

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

He that overcomes shall inherit all things.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Committing suicide is not overcoming in the slightest. It is a vile and selfish act wrought in a mind that has utterly rejected God. To imply that one can do such a thing and not face ruin for it is irresponsible, foolish and evil.

The Bible is very clear on this. He who sins is of the devil and for one's final action to be an action of the devil is perilous.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?


That bit in red highlight makes not a single lick of sense.. The LAST thing the devil would tell someone is to stop their wickedness and embrace Jesus.. LOL .. It's sad how so many on here are deluded in their beliefs..

Suicide is an evil thing.

John wrote...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It is not nonsense and garbage to quote the Apostle John and advocate what he plainly taught.

Anyone abiding in Jesus Christ will not commit suicide, nor would they murder anyone, steal, bear false witness, etc. Being in Christ saves us from those things.

If you sin you are a slave to sin. Of you obey sin you are the servant of sin. Jesus came to set people free from sin, not give them assurance whilst they still serve the devil.

No one said anything about "sinless perfection in the flesh" except you. Whatever is "sinless perfection in the flesh"? Sounds like a strawman which you use to avoid discussing what the actual scriptures teach.

You even go so far as to imply that advocating righteousness as being essential makes one a child of the devil. Only the devil would tell someone to forsake wickedness and abide in the spirit of life in Jesus Christ in which one is truly set free from sin, both the condemnation and service of sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

That bit in red highlight makes not a single lick of sense.. The LAST thing the devil would tell someone is to stop their wickedness and embrace Jesus.. LOL .. It's sad how so many on here are deluded in their beliefs..

No to mention that John said it was our FAITH that overcomes the world........FAITH..FAITH..FAITH......

 

[blue_ladybug]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

What about people who have no choice but to commit suicide? Such as the victims in the WTC on 911?Are they doomed to hell because they chose how they were going to die? I think God knows the hearts of those who commit suicide,who think about committing suicide and who have tried committing suicide. And He will judge them according to their heart set at that moment..

He that overcomes shall inherit all things.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Committing suicide is not overcoming in the slightest. It is a vile and selfish act wrought in a mind that has utterly rejected God. To imply that one can do such a thing and not face ruin for it is irresponsible, foolish and evil.

The Bible is very clear on this. He who sins is of the devil and for one's final action to be an action of the devil is perilous.

 

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

That bit in red highlight makes not a single lick of sense.. The LAST thing the devil would tell someone is to stop their wickedness and embrace Jesus.. LOL .. It's sad how so many on here are deluded in their beliefs..

That's right. That statement is obviously "satire" in order to make a point.

Many people decry the notion that wickedness and rebellion MUST be forsaken. They treat it as optional because they believe in a salvation which is inclusive of still being rebellious and wicked.

We could equate sin with mud and the service of sin as frolicking around in a mud bath. In order to be cleansed of the mud one would first have to forsake frolicking around in the mud bath and then take a shower. We can consider the new clean state as salvation.

Yet there are people who believe one can be SAVED POSITIONALLY whilst they are still frolicking around in the mud bath. They think salvation is an ABSTRACTION and thus a COVER for the mud. Somehow God pretends they are clean because they believe Jesus swapped places with them.

It's is an utter denial of the washing of regeneration and the shedding of the love of God abroad in the hearts of those whom genuinely get saved.

 

[PennEd]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Of course we can. The Bible teaches...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John was taught directly by the Master Himself and John plainly stated that a Christian is manifest in that they do not sin. He who sins is of the devil. He who does what is right is righteous.

Suicide is a sin. Suicide is not righteous. A Christian would never commit suicide any more than a Christian would molest children, murder their neighbour, steal at the market, or watch pornography. It is pretty simple. It is just that many people don't want to forsake unrighteousness and thus cling to alternative beliefs in which they can engage in sin and not surely die.

Those whom tell people that a Christian can in fact commit suicide have blood on their hands, for they are promoting the idea that one can kill themselves and not be condemned.

[video=youtube;S9zyBIRrAl4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9zyBIRrAl4[/video]

I know there is comfort in lies in numbers and that it is easy to choose something that tickles the ears, but truth is truth. He who sins is of the devil. The Bible does say that, and even Jesus spoke of that...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There is no way one can commit murder and not be of the devil. Sure the devil would have one believe otherwise but woe to those who swallow such an error.

It's not about "comfort in numbers". It's about comfort in Christ. Who He is and what He has done for me.

Sinless perfectionists have no truth in them. Just harsh condemnation and nary a speck of love.

 

[Skinski7]

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

What about people who have no choice but to commit suicide? Such as the victims in the WTC on 911?Are they doomed to hell because they chose how they were going to die? I think God knows the hearts of those who commit suicide,who think about committing suicide and who have tried committing suicide. And He will judge them according to their heart set at that moment..

Jumping out of the window from a room that is on fire isn't exactly the "suicide" themed in this thread is it? That is an example with very special extenuating circumstances and could be a whole discussion in and of itself. I wouldn't even call that suicide, more an act of trying to desperately escape being burned alive.

This thread is about suicide in general, the willful taking of one's life with the intention to die.