What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Skinski7 · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

What is sinless perfection? I never promoted such a thing. I promoted the words of John in the Bible. Do you reject John?

John says...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Do you believe that?

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Do you believe that?

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

How about that one?

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

What about that one? Are the children of God manifest in that they do not sin, because they cannot sin, because His seed remains in them?

It seems pretty clear to me.

Notice how not a single person wants to touch those scriptures. Instead people just ignore it and utilise straw man terms.

1Jn 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
1Jn 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

Suicide is not a fruit of having the love of God perfected in us. Suicide is a fruit of the devil.

The fruit of the Spirit is...

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Murder is a fruit of the flesh...

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

If one lives after the flesh they will die, but if one through the Spirit mortifies the deeds of the body then they will live.

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

A person who kills themselves is most certainly not mortifying the deeds of their body, they are engaging in a carnal act of rebellion towards God, the one whom gifted them life.

PennEd · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Simple question Skinski.

Do you sin?

Grace777x70 · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

How do we overcome? John gives us the answer:

“You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.” (1 Jn 4:4)

Overcoming is not about jumping through hoops and satisfying the expectations of men. It’s about depending on The Overcomer who lives in you.

“For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (1 Jn 5:4-5)

Are you born of God? Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? If yes, then the Overcomer lives in you and you can’t help but be an overcomer.

That’s why Jesus told the disciples to be encouraged during times of tribulation; because he – not they – had overcome the world and because they would carry his overcoming Spirit within them.

We are called to fight the good fight of faith! Believe in what Christ has done and His life will be manifested in every circumstance of our life while on this earth.

Grace777x70 · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

PennEd said:

Of course he sins. Unless lying is not a sin anymore. There is no such thing as sinless perfection in the flesh.

He is teaching a false gospel that denies the work of Christ. It is anti-the gospel. It has a bit of truth but it is twisted to say that anyone doing any work of the flesh is of satan. It's religious nonsense.

His own religion disqualifies him from being a child of God because he does sin from time to time in some form and thus he would be a child of the devil. This type of a mindset has no idea of the "why" of the gospel in the first place nor knows the heart of our loving Father and Lord.

It's this kind of religious garbage teaching that sends some people to suicide. Then these types condemn them and bring distress to the families and friends.

Suicide is a sickness of the brain and thinking. Would you go to hell if you ate so much you had a heart attack? What if you got cancer - will that now send you to hell?

tooldtocare · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

I tried it once and just broke a few bones. Maybe I will try it again but this time not from the second floor but the fifth

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dcontroversal · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Skinski7 said:

Yeah the bible also states the following (bolded)....and your not sinless.....

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

Notice their view under inspiration.

For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

DANIEL
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

JOHN
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

PAUL
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

Depleted · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Skinski7 said:

Prove it -- scriptural, statistically, logically, philosophically, or any which way you can. You gave a bold statement like this, so surely you can prove it.

Depleted · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Skinski7 said:

Of course we can. The Bible teaches...

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

John was taught directly by the Master Himself and John plainly stated that a Christian is manifest in that they do not sin. He who sins is of the devil. He who does what is right is righteous.

Suicide is a sin. Suicide is not righteous. A Christian would never commit suicide any more than a Christian would molest children, murder their neighbour, steal at the market, or watch pornography. It is pretty simple. It is just that many people don't want to forsake unrighteousness and thus cling to alternative beliefs in which they can engage in sin and not surely die.

Those whom tell people that a Christian can in fact commit suicide have blood on their hands, for they are promoting the idea that one can kill themselves and not be condemned.

Video removed because I'm not going to help promote bupkis.

I know there is comfort in lies in numbers and that it is easy to choose something that tickles the ears, but truth is truth. He who sins is of the devil. The Bible does say that, and even Jesus spoke of that...

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

There is no way one can commit murder and not be of the devil. Sure the devil would have one believe otherwise but woe to those who swallow such an error.

Are you sinless or aren't you "a genuine Christian?"

Depleted · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

truthhurts said:

Well, the jury is still out on Saul, but David did it by trusting God, including trusting God when he kept telling them the Messiah would save them. Isn't that salvation? Trusting the Messiah?

Depleted · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

blue_ladybug said:

I don't recall anyone committing suicide on 9/11. I remember some people deciding what was less likely to kill them -- being burned up by the fire from jet fuel or falling out the 89th floor. Personally, I would have taken the window and had the tiniest hope I'd hit some flag pole, a canopy, a few bodies, and then maybe a huge truck filled with goose feathers. Not likely, but more likely than surviving that fire. I think that was people holding to the slimmest hope of surviving.

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 10, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

dcontroversal said:

Yeah the bible also states the following (bolded)....and your not sinless.....

We have had a few threads lately that reject the fact that as a believer we occasionally fail and sin....The bible speaks to this...the only ones who reject this for the most part are those who

a. Believe they can lose salvation
b. Believe they must do good to keep it
c. Believe they must blend faith, works and be sinless after salvation

The following verses prove that even the most righteous men of the bible failed and sinned or had sin.....those who deny this...are missing the mark....

Daniel was a righteous saved child of God....anyone doubt that? NO
John was a righteous mas whom Jesus loved and an apostle...anyone doubt that? NO
Paul was a righteous man who was saved and wrote almost half the N.T...anyone doubt that? NO

Notice their view under inspiration.

For those who say the saved don't sin......or won't sin.......or are without sin......!

DANIEL
Now while I was speaking and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God in behalf of the holy mountain of my God,

And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

JOHN
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

PAUL
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

The only man who was sinless 100% was Jesus...even the most faithful men and women of the bible failed and had sin that they struggled with....the above re all present tense...NOT PAST TENSE......!

For those who say that we advocate a wicked sinful lifestyle because we acknowledge these scriptures.....this is false, misleading and border line lying.........!

What? Lol deliberate sin is the very reason people fall away.

To say those who believe we can lose salvation and doesn't believe in sin in the believer, is straight up a lie.

Dan58 · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

valiant said:

Paul also wrote; "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (2 Timothy 4:7). Osas provides no prerequisite of keeping the faith, but is rather a guarantee that following Christ is optional.

Depleted said:

Why serve God out of love, or at all? The OSAS warranty requires nothing.

PennEd · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Dan58 said:

This is sad. Like trying to describe color to a person born blind.

It may in fact be true that YOU can lose YOUR Salvation.

But I know I CAN'T lose MINE. Because I KNOW the One who who gave it to me, and the One who holds it in the Palm of His Hand! And I believe Him when He says He will NEVER leave nor forsake me.

Praise Jesus Christ!

Roughsoul1991 · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Dan58 said:

Because calvinist believe also Ephesians 2:8-9 supports that even faith is all of God and keeping faith is mandatory because instead of reading the scripture as salvation is the gift and only through faith, we are given it. They see it as both grace and faith is a gift. If that was the case scripture telling people to believe is redundant because God makes you believe and only chooses certain people to believe. It's better to see it as John 3:16 says that all who believe. God chose all and has made himself evident to all Romans 1 and is patient with all 2 Peter 3:9 to choose out of free will to put faith in God.

I guess calvinist would even say repentance is an act of God too.

Depleted · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Dan58 said:

Are you saved? Right here, right now, are you saved?

If you don't know, why follow God?

If you are? Why follow God?

If you aren't, why argue?

That simple!

Nothing different than OSAS.

Depleted · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Roughsoul1991 said:

The real difference between "calvinist" and you is Calvinists know the entire gospel isn't summed up in John 3:16, so everyone is saved, like you believe. We don't believe in universalism, because it is NOT scriptural. Even John 3:16 continues on to John 3:17, 18, 19, 2, and the clincher? 21. (Back to God did it.)

Big clue to you, dude! OSAS isn't Calvinist doctrine. So catch a clue before you show off your ignorance again and again. Notice the P in TULIP!

(Some day you will look back at how you acted on this site and will be so embarrassed. Experience talking, I was young and arrogant like you. lol)

dcontroversal · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Roughsoul1991 said:

a. You have not been here very long and have no clue how he is
b. My post is valid
c. You have proven by numerous posts that you have much to learn

BillG · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

Dan58 said:

Why do you think that?

I notice that those opposed to the OSAS doctrine assume that those who believe it are greasy gracers who use it as an excuse to sin, do what they want and put no effort in their walk with Jesus.

Over my 30 years as a Christian I have encountered that attitude less times than the number of fingers I have on my left hand.
On the odd occasion I have heard people who do sin say who are believers say "It's ok I'm forgiven" Which is positive and negative. It's negative if there is no Godly sorrow that leads to repentance (take sin lightly) but is positive if there is Godly sorrow that leads to repentance.

And to those that have an attitude that it's ok to sin, see no need for change or those who take sin lightly, I have pulled aside and talked to them about it.

Its not a license to sin, a great price has been paid for you.

I am a OSAS believer.
I don't use it as a license to sin, I do not take my sin lightly, I hate it with a passion.

You seem to assume that all those who believe in OSAS, think they don't need to keep their faith in Jesus, that following Christ is optional and that they don't love God or serve God and that OSAS requires nothing.

You are assuming that because of the odd bad apple then all are the same.

I am sure that the majority of OSAS beleivers are not bad apples.
We have placed genuine faith in Jesus, want to walk with him and be like him, do not take sin lightly, are not greasy gracers but we trust in God to keep us and ourselves to keep us.

And yes we repent when we do sin, we confess it and ask God to help us to conform us to the image of Christ.
Thats different from saying to God "I'll do it myself"

We admit that we need God to keep us and not the other way around, that being we keep ourself.

truthhurts · Apr 11, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

BillG said:

Why do you think that?

I notice that those opposed to the OSAS doctrine assume that those who believe it are greasy gracers who use it as an excuse to sin, do what they want and put no effort in their walk with Jesus.

Over my 30 years as a Christian I have encountered that attitude less times than the number of fingers I have on my left hand.
On the odd occasion I have heard people who do sin say who are believers say "It's ok I'm forgiven" Which is positive and negative. It's negative if there is no Godly sorrow that leads to repentance (take sin lightly) but is positive if there is Godly sorrow that leads to repentance.

And to those that have an attitude that it's ok to sin, see no need for change or those who take sin lightly, I have pulled aside and talked to them about it.

Its not a license to sin, a great price has been paid for you.

I am a OSAS believer.
I don't use it as a license to sin, I do not take my sin lightly, I hate it with a passion.

You seem to assume that all those who believe in OSAS, think they don't need to keep their faith in Jesus, that following Christ is optional and that they don't love God or serve God and that OSAS requires nothing.

You are assuming that because of the odd bad apple then all are the same.

I am sure that the majority of OSAS beleivers are not bad apples.
We have placed genuine faith in Jesus, want to walk with him and be like him, do not take sin lightly, are not greasy gracers but we trust in God to keep us and ourselves to keep us.

And yes we repent when we do sin, we confess it and ask God to help us to conform us to the image of Christ.
Thats different from saying to God "I'll do it myself"

We admit that we need God to keep us and not the other way around, that being we keep ourself.

Do you believe you have power over SIN and that it is a choice?

BillG · Apr 12, 2017

Re: What Would Stop a "Once Saved, Always Saved" Believer From Committing Suicide?

truthhurts said:

yep I do.

but how and what would you define as sin

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