Whatever people say the mark of the beast is: its a lie.

[oldethennew]

the scripture plainly says in
DANIEL 7:23.
Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms,
and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

REV. 16:10.
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness;
and they gnawed their tongues for pain, ......

the 'beast is 'government-ruling-powers'...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I too believe that the "beast" [Rev13:1] is a "beast system" [that is, governing], per Dan7:23 [& Rev16:10], but also that the "mouth" aspect OF it represents the individual person [who we normally call "the antichrist" / "man of sin" ['whose COMING'2Th2:9a] / "prince THAT SHALL COME" (for "ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")Dan9:27[26] ], per Dan7:25,20-21 "whose look was more stout than his fellows" / Rev13:5-6 "and there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things..."/"and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God..." [v.7 "and it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome [same Grk word as in Rev6:2 2x] them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations..."]

...so I see it as both a "system" and an "individual" (where Dan7:24 says "and another [king] shall rise after them")

 

[Mii]

To end the American Revolution, King George III (as he authorized the United
States to exist in the Treaty of Parisin 1783) retained Title over the Holy Roman
Empire and the United States of America as "Arch-Treasurer" and "Prince
Elector." Yes, the Holy Roman Empire is explicitly mentioned as the Treaty's
authority to allow the U.S. to exist. This is consistent with the Biblical Beast
powers. THE UNITED STATES REMAINS WITHIN THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
• The Secretary of the Treasury issues Social Security Cards. The Secretary of the
Treasury is not an Officer of the U.S. Government. He is the Arch-Treasurer of
the Holy Roman Empire, just like the Treaty says
• The U.S. went Bankrupt on March 4, 1933.
• On March 9, 1933, domestic transactions were removed from the exclusions to
the 1917 Trading with the Enemy Act(40 Stat L. 411, Subdivision "b" of Section
5). "Trading with the Enemy" is always illegal. Prior to March 9, 1933 domestic
transactions were always legal. After March 9, 1933 all domestic transactions are
illegal. We are the enemy of the Roman occupation forces. Again: trading with
the enemy is always illegal, but now our domestic trading is with the enemy of
our foreign masters. Domestic transactions can now be regulated and punished. I
repeat: domestic transactions are illegal. NO MAN MIGHT BUY OR SELL. It
is illegal to buy or sell in unless your transactions are with a surrendered person.
Guess who has surrendered.
• The multinational authority that is already pre-authorized by the U.S. Congress to
control your buying and selling with "actions, regulations, rules, licenses, orders
and proclamations heretofore or hereafter taken ..." is the very same
multinational authority that issues Social Security Cards. Title 12 United States
Code, Section 95(b)gives the Secretary of the Treasury complete power over us.
Whatever drastic actions he wants to take to control us are already authorized by
law. His actions "heretofore or hereafter taken" have already been pre-approved
by Congress in 1933. (This all fits nicely with Rev 13:10 "if anyone is to go into
captivity...")
• The Social Security Act has no provision for a Trust Fund or Insurance. In fact, it
would be unconstitutional if it had a Trust Fund according to Davis v. Boston, 89
F2d 368. Even the Supreme Court says that there is never a contractual obligation
to pay Social Security benefits because no one has a contracted right to benefits
(Fleming v. Nestor, 363 US 603).
• It is the official U.S. Government policy that only federal welfare applicants are
required to have Social Security Numbers. I've included a Chapter citing allthe
court cases requiring people to get SS numbers, and all cases are for welfare
Applicants. And I have another Chapter with Constitutional proofs that it cannot
be otherwise.
• Social Security Numbers are only for federal welfare Applicants. No law has ever
required a worker to get a Social Security Number. Neither has a court ever
required a worker to get a Social Security Number. According to Title 26, Code of
Federal Regulations, Section 31.3402(p)"... furnishing Form W-4 shall constitute
a request for withholding." U.S. Citizens were not subject to withholding
according to the recently repealed Title 26 Code of Federal Regulations Section
1.1441-5entitled: "Claiming to be a person not subject to withholding."
• Even the Social Security Administration admits that it is unaware of any law or
regulation requiring the Social Security Number to be used for employment
purposes.
• It is highly unlikely that you ever qualified for a Social Security Number. Social
Security Act, Section 205(c)(2)(B)(i)allows Social Security Cards to be issued to
those who need government funds. The Application for a Social Security Card is
an Application to become a Ward of Government. You signed a financing
statement whereby they agree to finance your benefits in exchange for something.
This can be upheld in any court.
• Once you voluntarily ask to be a Ward of your Masters, you are chained to their
chain of command. While you are in their house, you obey their rules. No matter
how abhorrent or repugnant their rules become. The Supreme Court in the
Ashwander case said that anyone who takes federal benefits cannot challenge
their rules. Caesar has become lord. You cannot obey two Masters.

• By asking to be a Ward of the Government, you've created a host of providers to
regulate you, judge you, and be your savior. This is the moral equivalent of
having other lords before God Almighty, in violation of the First Commandment.
• By applying for a Social Security Card you are applying for federal benefits.
Believers cannot associate with freeloaders according to 2nd Thessalonians 3:6-14. Therefore, a Believer cannot qualify for a Social Security Number.

These are only a few details among 100's that show the SSN to be the signatory mark between a man and the beast system, as I see it.

So if I was born into it I'm doomed? Seems pretty rotten for 300M+ Americans


I don't disagree that it is a harbinger of that system, but it isn't fully completed. It takes full participation in the system and currently there are still gaps. The framework is there though I will agree with that. What is missing is a catalyst for people to turn to a "higher power" be that government or the Lord. Things are not dire enough to roll out a mandatory system. It's close though.

3 election cycles to continue to weed out christian "sleepers" (people that deep down won't stand for it) and I think you'll have nearly all of the gaps plugged. This along with new technology that makes it too hard for almost anyone to remain anonymous and the net will be pretty much "foolproof" (unless the Lord's grace allows for someone to escape it).

 

[SimpleGardner]

So if I was born into it I'm doomed? Seems pretty rotten for 300M+ Americans


I don't disagree that it is a harbinger of that system, but it isn't fully completed. It takes full participation in the system and currently there are still gaps. The framework is there though I will agree with that. What is missing is a catalyst for people to turn to a "higher power" be that government or the Lord. Things are not dire enough to roll out a mandatory system. It's close though.

3 election cycles to continue to weed out christian "sleepers" (people that deep down won't stand for it) and I think you'll have nearly all of the gaps plugged. This along with new technology that makes it too hard for almost anyone to remain anonymous and the net will be pretty much "foolproof" (unless the Lord's grace allows for someone to escape it).

Sincere Greetings Mii,

Being born into the Beast System has its challenges, but it is in no way a death sentence! Note that there are what some call "inferred laws" upon the "beast System" where they leave gaps or allowances for the children of the Kingdom to live without mingling with the Beast System. For example; see the following figures:

Filing Status: Single

• Under 65, gross income threshold = $12,000
• 65 or older, gross income threshold = $13,600

Filing status: Head of household

• Under 65, gross income threshold = $18,000
• 65 or older, gross income threshold = $19,600

Filing Status: Married, filing jointly

• Both spouses under 65, gross income threshold = $24,000
• One spouse 65 or older, gross income threshold = $25,300
• Both spouses 65 or older, gross income threshold = $26,600

Filing Status: Married, filing separately

• Any age, gross income threshold = $5

Filing Status: Qualifying widow(er) with dependent child

• Under 65, gross income threshold = $24,000
• 65 or older, gross income threshold = $25,300

See the following admonitions from Jesus and John on this very matter:


Important example; Jesus made the point that He Himself was meek and lowly, divested from the "beast system" of His day. He admonished us to "follow His example" when He said ;"come learn of me." or; John 15:19 KJV If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


John reiterated the sentiment over and over when he echoed Jesus' words with admonitions such as
1 John 2:15-17 KJV Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


SO, it only makes sense that the children of the Kingdom live simple humble lives. Note the admonition in; Zephaniah 2:3 KJV Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD'S anger.

Note that here another admonition to live under the wire or "noticability threshold". The term "hid" in the above Zephaniah verse means "unaffected" too. Also note the admonition echoed in; Revelation 18:4 KJV And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

So, to put it in real world terms; simplify your life, earn under the limit for your circumstances. This is a difficult but real admonition from our Creator. We live in a world engulfed in the "Beast System World order" if we recognize it for what it is we will despise that order more each day and shun the practices of groping after it's "things" and "lifestyles" and seek out the ways of the Kingdom which when we take that step will earn us the disdain and hatred of the world, and excellent sign! You will become an embarassment to your family who live the Beast system life.

Bless YHWH!

 

[Hevosmies358]

Thanks for telling us bro. Now we know not to listen to your interpretation of the mark of the beast. By your own admission: ya dunno notin!

 

[SimpleGardner]

So if I was born into it I'm doomed? Seems pretty rotten for 300M+ Americans


I don't disagree that it is a harbinger of that system, but it isn't fully completed. It takes full participation in the system and currently there are still gaps. The framework is there though I will agree with that. What is missing is a catalyst for people to turn to a "higher power" be that government or the Lord. Things are not dire enough to roll out a mandatory system. It's close though.

3 election cycles to continue to weed out christian "sleepers" (people that deep down won't stand for it) and I think you'll have nearly all of the gaps plugged. This along with new technology that makes it too hard for almost anyone to remain anonymous and the net will be pretty much "foolproof" (unless the Lord's grace allows for someone to escape it).

This is an addendum to my elaborate on my previous post beginning; "Being born into the Beast System has its challenges". Regarding the income threshold, I should elaborate that the children of the Kingdom would naturally live and work in such a way as to not require them to file taxes or fill out W4's such as selling produce they grow ar a farmers market or mowing a lawn etc, etc. and of course lawfully earning below the set limits required for filing taxes. For me it was a drastic change in lifestyle, but it has been a wonderful "migrating away" from Babylon/The Beast System/The current Evil World Order in which I labored for things and status. Now as I immerse myself deeper into the order YHWH created us to operate in, I am finding rest even while the pains of losing ease and status and things lingers, yet fades. It is a bringing of the creature/us back from the brink of utter pride as lust to a life of humility and contentment with little. Many feel a verbal ascent to receiving forgiveness for our sins is sufficient, but truely the essence of our redemption is being rescued from the "world" where all of our sins meet their fruition
James 1:12-15 KJV Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. (13) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: (14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. (15) Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[SimpleGardner]

Thanks for telling us bro. Now we know not to listen to your interpretation of the mark of the beast. By your own admission: ya dunno notin!

Greetings,

I'm definitely here to learn and share. If there is something you can help me with I'm open to hearing your position. Please, take the time to share the details.

Sincerely

 

[SimpleGardner]

I too believe that the "beast" [Rev13:1] is a "beast system" [that is, governing], per Dan7:23 [& Rev16:10], but also that the "mouth" aspect OF it represents the individual person [who we normally call "the antichrist" / "man of sin" ['whose COMING'2Th2:9a] / "prince THAT SHALL COME" (for "ONE WEEK [7 yrs]")Dan9:27[26] ], per Dan7:25,20-21 "whose look was more stout than his fellows" / Rev13:5-6 "and there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things..."/"and he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God..." [v.7 "and it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome [same Grk word as in Rev6:2 2x] them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations..."]

...so I see it as both a "system" and an "individual" (where Dan7:24 says "and another [king] shall rise after them")

Greetings TheDivineWaterMark, I agree with you on this too. I would like to add though that for me it is easier to understand the relationship between the "system" and the "individual" when I acknowledge the "Beast System" as a very large homogenous group united in purpose and depravity with a fighrehead. The true evil behind the system is it's lawless anti-Christ position whose spirit is handed down through the ages. The actual identity of this group, wether genetically predisposed to carnality or simply an assembly of men who had options and gave themselves over is another discussion that rarely bares any fruit in a debate.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The mark of the beast is simple.
It is a mirror of the mark of heaven.

1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and
with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14

16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave,
to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the
name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13

The mark is an obvious mark of loyalty to the beast, so until the beast appears and declares
his rebellion, it has no meaning or significance. The reason for significance is the open
rebellion against God in the middle of judgement for sins.

So put simply this has not happened yet, and no one will be surprised when it does, which
is the point. And it is written so Gods people know the price of standing firm.

10 This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
rev 13

 

[SimpleGardner]

The mark of the beast is simple.
It is a mirror of the mark of heaven.

1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and
with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
Rev 14

16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave,
to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the
name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13

The mark is an obvious mark of loyalty to the beast, so until the beast appears and declares
his rebellion, it has no meaning or significance. The reason for significance is the open
rebellion against God in the middle of judgement for sins.

So put simply this has not happened yet, and no one will be surprised when it does, which
is the point. And it is written so Gods people know the price of standing firm.

10 This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.
rev 13

Greetings FollowHisSteps, Your handle is good. In the very last day every knee shall bow and tongue confess that Yahshua is the King of all! Until then is there any doubt that many have exchanged the truth for a lie, they saw God, knew enough to Glorify Him, yet didn't, so their hearts are darkened! Rom 1:21 Even Yahshua declared that on "that day" many would deceive themselves that they could adhere to The Beast System yet follow a pattern of service to God, but he will clear up their error when He says, I know you not! Matt 7:22-23 He clarifies that they tried to do works without knowing and keeping His laws. You that do works without the law (anomia). Yahshua made it clear that the only path to fellowship with Himself and the Father is through both knowing and keeping His commandments (John 14:21)

So many people try to engage in the Beast System of living because it fulfills the lust of the flesh, lust of the eye and the pride of life all, and besides all that everyone else is doing it, while practicing a form of Godliness;
2 Timothy 3:4-5 KJV Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; (5) Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Until then is there any doubt that many have exchanged the truth for a lie, they saw God, knew enough to Glorify Him, yet didn't, so their hearts are darkened! Rom 1:21

I've read a good commentary (doubt I could locate it now) that said this verse (or maybe vv.21-25?? I forget exactly) refers specifically to "Israel" in their OT relationship to God, rather than, say, to mankind in general, here in this particular context)… I wonder what you might think of that idea...

 

[SimpleGardner]

I have read similar patterns of interpretation on this and all of Pauls writing. I have studied commentaries declaring that the entire collection of Hebrew and Greek manuscripts OT+NT and their collection and interpretation into the Bible I read is exclusively written to the "Firstborn". The firstborn being the firstborn all the way from Adam to Seth to Noah then on to Jacob where the 12 sons (13 with Joseph being divided into Ephriam and Manasseh) constituted the Kingdom of Heaven representatives on earth. It is certainly obvious that this is the case through Malachi. I do recognize some exclusiveness in the NT and perhaps Paul considered himself the emissary to the Northern Kingdom of Israel-post Divorce (Jer 3:8) from YHWH and scattered into all the nations. (Amos 9:9) Jesus certainly proclaimen that He was here or "sent" "only" for the lost sheep of the "house of Israel" I see a larger narrative in this line of thought and have followed it through the entire Bible. It confuses the doctrine of Universalism and is difficult to reconcile with Christianity today without deeper knowledge of the scripture. I don't know if I gave an answer you were looking for or simply muddied the waters.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I'm not sure if you misunderstood me, I'm not saying his address (there) was TO [a certain ppl] but ABOUT [a certain ppl], before he further goes on to write ABOUT [a certain other group of ppl]… and not till later in the book does he cover the ABOUT ['the Church which is His body' Truths (which was also TO them/us )], and then even later [chpts 9-11, the subject being 'nations'...('Israel [singular nation]' and 'the Gentiles [plural nations]' in "God's governmental ways upon the earth' [what 'the olive tree' represents, there])]...

so, no, I'm not saying his address was TO [a certain ppl, in the passage I referred to specifically] but ABOUT

...in case that's what you thought I meant...

 

[Alertandawake]

Something that I wanted to mention, and I think it is important, I traced the word "sign" that is mentioned in Exodus 13.9 to the hebrew word "owth" H226 in Strong's concordance and going by that, it can mean a signal, evidence, a flag, a beacon and so on (just google H226 to see fully). The same hebrew word is used is in relation to Ezekiel 20.20.

Now looking at the greek word "mark" in relation to Rev 13.16-17, the greek word is "charagma", strongs G5480 (which one can look up), and going by Strong's, this word means either a scratch or etching (etching is a form of engraving, just the process is different) Thing is whether one scratches or engraves, this action involves penetration, example, if you get a scratch on your skin and there was bleeding, the outer layer has been penetrated.

So looking at both the greek and hebrew words used, they are not really the same, they are different.

 

[Absolutely]

Greetings TheDivineWaterMark, I agree with you on this too. I would like to add though that for me it is easier to understand the relationship between the "system" and the "individual" when I acknowledge the "Beast System" as a very large homogenous group united in purpose and depravity with a fighrehead. The true evil behind the system is it's lawless anti-Christ position whose spirit is handed down through the ages. The actual identity of this group, wether genetically predisposed to carnality or simply an assembly of men who had options and gave themselves over is another discussion that rarely bares any fruit in a debate.

Nope it/he is a man.
A ss number has nothing to do with it.
The mark is "do or die"
One MUST worship his image,or lose their heads.
It is a clear immediate line in the sand,not some gradual thing.It/he is a person,not a system. It is man worship,not government worship.
Satan recieves worship through the antichrist. That is why the ac makes it so clear to recieve the mark or die. They must know that he,the ac is christ (the "christ jesus")

It is clearly not a system.
System is actually what it can't be.
Won't work.
A system cant go into the temple,demand worship,and offer strange demonic sacrifice.

 

[Absolutely]

Something that I wanted to mention, and I think it is important, I traced the word "sign" that is mentioned in Exodus 13.9 to the hebrew word "owth" H226 in Strong's concordance and going by that, it can mean a signal, evidence, a flag, a beacon and so on (just google H226 to see fully). The same hebrew word is used is in relation to Ezekiel 20.20.

Now looking at the greek word "mark" in relation to Rev 13.16-17, the greek word is "charagma", strongs G5480 (which one can look up), and going by Strong's, this word means either a scratch or etching (etching is a form of engraving, just the process is different) Thing is whether one scratches or engraves, this action involves penetration, example, if you get a scratch on your skin and there was bleeding, the outer layer has been penetrated.

So looking at both the greek and hebrew words used, they are not really the same, they are different.

Later in the gt,it says "grevious sores" develop in the skin where they took the mark.

It is some tatoo deal with a magnetic or rf type chip.
The recipients will see it as cool,beautiful,and trendy

 

[Absolutely]

If you don't understand about the ac,and the mark,your chances of being deceived increase.
God gives the world over to great deception. Huge insane deception.
We are in the birthpangs of that very dimension.
Look at the liberals and the media.
The fore runners of the beast and false prophet.
Combine man worship in,and you have the demon trinity.
The ac will be slightly different but that trinity dimension will be there.

It MUST have man worship in there. They want a man.
See,it is a pattern after the God Man Jesus.
Both man and God in one human
That is Key.
The ac must be man and god.
A satanic man god.
That is what is coming.
We already see man worship in the pope and obama. Both received worship. Miliions of worshippers

 

[Absolutely]

The ac Not a system.
A man
Can not be a system

 

[garee]

Something that I wanted to mention, and I think it is important, I traced the word "sign" that is mentioned in Exodus 13.9 to the hebrew word "owth" H226 in Strong's concordance and going by that, it can mean a signal, evidence, a flag, a beacon and so on (just google H226 to see fully). The same hebrew word is used is in relation to Ezekiel 20.20.

Now looking at the greek word "mark" in relation to Rev 13.16-17, the greek word is "charagma", strongs G5480 (which one can look up), and going by Strong's, this word means either a scratch or etching (etching is a form of engraving, just the process is different) Thing is whether one scratches or engraves, this action involves penetration, example, if you get a scratch on your skin and there was bleeding, the outer layer has been penetrated.

So looking at both the greek and hebrew words used, they are not really the same, they are different.

Many of the doctrines of God are founded or have there roots in Genesis .The mark of a restless wanderer (666) as a punishment more than he could bear is one.

We walk by faith not by sight. Jesus says its an evil generation man (666) that looks to something they can see with their eyes before they believe. Walk by sight and not in respect to a unseen God.

Its the mark of Cain, natural un-converted man as a beast of the field. His number created on day 6, is 666. He slew his brother Abel when he brought the good news... hiding his body as in out of sight out of mind . God marked him as a marked man. He said mark my word I will increase his toil and he will not find rest knowing his sins are forgiven. Refusing to believe in a God not seen his heart remains hard.

And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Geneisis 4:15

 

[Alertandawake]

Its the mark of Cain, natural un-converted man as a beast of the field. His number created on day 6, is 666. He slew his brother Abel when he brought the good news... hiding his body as in out of sight out of mind . God marked him as a marked man. He said mark my word I will increase his toil and he will not find rest knowing his sins are forgiven. Refusing to believe in a God not seen his heart remains hard.

And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.Geneisis 4:15

I just checked the word "mark" in reference to Genesis 4.15 which the Hebrew word is "owth" (H226 Strong's concordance).

The greek word "mark" in relation to Rev 13.16-17, is "charagma". The meanings are different. You scratch someone and they bleed, the skin has been penetrated, you do etching or engraving on material the outer layer will be penetrated during the process. The hebrew word "owth" that i checked does not give that same impression, based on what I have read.