When are we saved ?

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throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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The many spiritual blessings God has granted us “ in Christ”, which includes the fact that God chose us before the foundation of the world.

“In Christ” is referring to the SOURCE of all the blessings, it is not talking about our existence. You got that from the fallacious argument in the video you shared. In Christ is not about us and our existence. It is about the SOURCE from which all the blessings come.

God has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Source. Christ is the fountain from which all spiritual blessings flows. Like it says in Colossians “in Him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom. And 2 Timothy Grace given into us in Christ before the earth began. Nothing to do with our existence. If it did, we existed before the world began. But since we’re not Mormons, I suppose that in Christ refers to the source of the grace and blessings, not our existence.
How is it a blessing to be told you were chosen by God before the foundation of the world ( ignoring the fact you mis quoted Eph 1 4 AGAIN ?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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The many spiritual blessings God has granted us “ in Christ”, which includes the fact that God chose us before the foundation of the world.

“In Christ” is referring to the SOURCE of all the blessings, it is not talking about our existence. You got that from the fallacious argument in the video you shared. In Christ is not about us and our existence. It is about the SOURCE from which all the blessings come.

God has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in Christ. Source. Christ is the fountain from which all spiritual blessings flows. Like it says in Colossians “in Him are hidden all the treasures of wisdom. And 2 Timothy Grace given into us in Christ before the earth began. Nothing to do with our existence. If it did, we existed before the world began. But since we’re not Mormons, I suppose that in Christ refers to the source of the grace and blessings, not our existence.
So what's the issue your having with my view?
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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How is it a blessing to be told you were chosen by God before the foundation of the world ( ignoring the fact you mis quoted Eph 1 4 AGAIN ?
In Him is not referring to us. It is referring to the basis and source of the blessings

This is not a Mormon site is it? We do not believe that we were in Christ before the world began do we?

Because the text says we were chosen in Him before the world began. You cannot sever “ before the world began” from the rest of the verse, though you’re trying really hard

Ephesians 1 is not teaching our pre existence, so you can drop that argument now
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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So what's the issue your having with my view?
Because you try to remove “ before the foundation of the world” from the meaning of the text. And you think “ in Christ” in this verse is referring to us, to our position. but it’s not. Not in this verse. The only way that is possible is if you believe in preexisteent souls
 

OIC1965

Well-known member
Sep 19, 2020
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'but according to his own purpose and grace' He didn't do this for rocks , cats or angels even , but us . Isn't that amazing. Not us ' Billy, Bob, sue , timmy , Fred...not you scot , Tony, Sandra ect . But anyone in him .
According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,...

You still have to deal with the “before” part.
 

ForestGreenCook

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Jul 8, 2018
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But you agree that the phrase “in Christ Jesus” in 2 Thess. 1:9 is not IN ANY WAY talking about us existing or being in Christ when the verb “ was given” was performed, right

A simple yes or no please.
It seems as hard to get a yes, or no from him, as it does from Joe Biden.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Because you try to remove “ before the foundation of the world” from the meaning of the text. And you think “ in Christ” in this verse is referring to us, to our position. but it’s not. Not in this verse. The only way that is possible is if you believe in preexisteent souls
I've said all a long JESUS is the only preexisting Elect before the foundation of the world. When we get IN an eternal being we ARE blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings IN CHRIST JESUS . No ' in the mind of God ' Jehovah witness theology needed .
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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Because you try to remove “ before the foundation of the world” from the meaning of the text. And you think “ in Christ” in this verse is referring to us, to our position. but it’s not. Not in this verse. The only way that is possible is if you believe in preexisteent souls
Nope . Of Course ' before ' Jesus preexisting.
 

throughfaith

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Aug 4, 2020
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According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world,...

You still have to deal with the “before” part.
“Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” “in Christ.” Jesus Christ was to be the medium through which all blessings would be dispensed (vs. 10), and we can only be “accepted in the beloved” (vs. 6). You were not “in the beloved”
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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We are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. Not that God foreknew and chose a plan, but that He foreknew and chose people, as stated by the fact that He chose US in Eph. 1;4. see also Romans 8:28-30
Thanks and wirh respect, but I see it differently in this way as said that the phrase "from the foundation of the world" may differs from "before the foundation of the world." So when it comes to salvation, we are saved "from the foundation of the world" as in time (not eternity"), similarly our name is written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8; Rev. 17:8). Ephesians talks about spiritual blessings after we are already saved in time not in eternity. The fact that we are CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world does not mean that any sinner existed or was saved before the foundation of the world. It merely means that God laid down the basis for being chosen, i.e., IN HIM, IN CHRIST. and no one is IN CHRIST BEFORE they are saved.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8 . . . they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life FROM the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
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Thanks and wirh respect, but I see it differently in this way as said that the phrase "from the foundation of the world" may differs from "before the foundation of the world." So when it comes to salvation, we are saved "from the foundation of the world" as in time (not eternity"), similarly our name is written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8; Rev. 17:8). Ephesians talks about spiritual blessings after we are already saved in time not in eternity. The fact that we are CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world does not mean that any sinner existed or was saved before the foundation of the world. It merely means that God laid down the basis for being chosen, i.e., IN HIM, IN CHRIST. and no one is IN CHRIST BEFORE they are saved.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.

Rev 17:8 . . . they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life FROM the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Thank you, and this is the correct understanding.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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The things you listed are blessings referred to in Verse 3. Clearly salvation blessings. But the direct object of the choosing in verse 4 is not methods or things, it is people. God chose US in Him. It's also strange how people will say that the choosing is a vocational election, when as you correctly said, Ephesians 1 is entirely about things that pertain to salvation.
Salvation , you would agree is AFTER we believe ? Eph 1.13-14 . So Paul speaking to already saved saints in Christ Jesus . The whole Point Paul is making is the blessing we now have after . In him , is the point thats ' according ' . The access to the blessings is ONLY found in him .
 
May 22, 2020
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Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he savED us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; :D

Yes...at His judgement.
What is your point?
Remember what ....ed...means.
 
May 22, 2020
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The issue is your misuse of the phrase “in Him” to try to negate the fact that God chose us before the foundation of the world on the basis that we did not exist yet

“God chose us in Him”...has nothing to do with when we began to exist. “In Him” modifies the verb, not the direct object.

I doubt you can say...fact.
I see nothing that says God chose us before the foundations of the earth.
Concluding for a moment ...so...
...what point does it make?
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
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No foreknowledge is not the same as choosing.

Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us, which means people. Also in Romans 8:28-30, God does not foreknow what’s He foreknows whos.

We don’t need to exist for God to foreknow. I don’t have a lot of time right now, but more later.
We are only ' known ' as sons .