When are we saved ?
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So he chose all believers, before they believed?
And is ANYONE’S eternal destiny ever undeterminable with God. Hardly possible.
Is Ephesians 1:1-14 ( and the rest of the chapter) about all believers or not?
Didn’t you say earlier and didn’t the guy on the video say that Ephesians 1:4 was talking about vocational calling? How does God choose one’s vocational calling when their salvation is undetermined?
And is ANYONE’S eternal destiny ever undeterminable with God. Hardly possible.
And is ANYONE’S eternal destiny ever undeterminable with God. Hardly possible.
He is addressing those in Christ Jesus ( Already in him ) . So he chose all believers, before they believed? if so why ? And in what way ? Calvinism says he chose them and determined them only to be saved before they existed . And passed over or determined for reprobation . If this is not your position ( which i don't think it is ) Could you explain what is your position?
God has perfect foreknowledge. Always has had perfect foreknowledge. Because of this, our election and salvation was never undetermined with Him. He has always known us. And He has blessed us with every spiritual blessings. These blessings are in Christ and His Grace to us is in Christ. And when we believe, we are placed in Christ. But Ephesians 1:4 is not about when we believed. It is talking about something that took place before the earth was made.
Was the election of believers ever undetermined in the mind of God??
Again thats not the right word . Unless you just meant// Was the choosing of believers ever undetermined in the mind of God??// At best we can say with certainty he knew. Un less the text says specifically. If we had verses that said ' God chose people to be converted and he also chose people for hell , then fair enough .
Again thats not the right word . Unless you just meant// Was the choosing of believers ever undetermined in the mind of God??// At best we can say with certainty he knew. Un less the text says specifically. If we had verses that said ' God chose people to be converted and he also chose people for hell , then fair enough .
Again thats not the right word . Unless you just meant// Was the choosing of believers ever undetermined in the mind of God??// At best we can say with certainty he knew. Un less the text says specifically. If we had verses that said ' God chose people to be converted and he also chose people for hell , then fair enough .
No, I do not hold to the Calvinist position
God has perfect foreknowledge. Always has had perfect foreknowledge. Because of this, our election and salvation was never undetermined with Him. He has always known us. And He has blessed us with every spiritual blessings. These blessings are in Christ and His Grace to us is in Christ. And when we believe, we are placed in Christ. But Ephesians 1:4 is not about when we believed. It is talking about something that took place before the earth was made.
God has perfect foreknowledge. Always has had perfect foreknowledge. Because of this, our election and salvation was never undetermined with Him. He has always known us. And He has blessed us with every spiritual blessings. These blessings are in Christ and His Grace to us is in Christ. And when we believe, we are placed in Christ. But Ephesians 1:4 is not about when we believed. It is talking about something that took place before the earth was made.
Ok then because of this foreknowledge he ' knows ' us . ( both before and in him?) ok this is where it gets slippery
So according to this foreknowledge he blesses us with all spiritual blessings in Christ Jesus , before christ is even christ , before the fall before we were born, before we sinned .
OK then you say ' and when we believed ( I assume unlike determinism where irresistible grace would come in here , you just mean we just freely believe the Gospel by Faith ? ) Then we are placed in christ .
You then say ephesians 1 .4 its not WHEN we believed , but that its something that took place before the earth was made .
OK lots of questions here. But the biggest is , what took place before the earth was made , if it was just in God's mind and you don't believe God determined it ?
Is a person’s eternal destiny ever tbd, ie not known, in the mind of God?