When are we saved ?

[OIC1965]

I don't need to put my beliefs in boxes either. As long as they align with Scripture, I'm good

Yes. I think we should be able to discuss the Bible without people putting labels on us. Just because I believe in election, that does not make me a Calvinist and just because I believe in the effects of the fall doesn’t put me in a box either.

The Bible teaches election and the Bible teaches depravity of man. Don’t need the institutes of Calvin or the works of Arminius to know that.

Not you, but some people here have a bad habit of labeling people. That is counterproductive.

 

[Magenta]

Yes. I think we should be able to discuss the Bible without people putting labels on us. Just because I believe in election, that does not make me a Calvinist and just because I believe in the effects of the fall doesn’t put me in a box either.

The Bible teaches election and the Bible teaches depravity of man. Don’t need the institutes of Calvin or the works of Arminius to know that.

Not you, but some people here have a bad habit of labeling people. That is counterproductive.

I agree. It also seems like some terms (such as election) come under scrutiny and are defined in various ways by different camps, and that leads to disagreements also.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

It’s interesting that the word “pistis” can be translated faith or faithfulness. With Christ, I think it’s His faithfulness that saves us, and our faith merely rests on His Faithfulness in what He has done, what He is doing, and what He will do.

I am in agreement.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Mormons can demonstrate scripture with scripture from the bible also ?

I know very little about other people's beliefs, just what I have heard, but I have been revealed a doctrine that satisfies my comfort, and security in the truths that I have been revealed therein.

 

[CharliRenee]

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The point is HOW they became children of God? By faith IN Jesus christ . You can't keep trying the ' It only refers to the 'elect' switch- a -roo with every verse

That's just it! people do not become children of God, by faith in Christ.

I have explained this to you time and time again that the natural man only has faith in mankind, and what he accomplishes, which is not spiritual faith. To repeat myself; Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the new birth. The new birth is given by God's sovereign grace, without any participation of mankind.

Your agenda is to get the natural man to have the ability to believe in the things of the spirit, which contradicts scripture. I know that you do not like me mentioning harmonizing the scriptures, but you will not be able to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught if you have contradicting scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I gave a link

Molinism affirms that God grants salvation, but a person has the choice to freely accept it or reject it.

God does not "grant" eternal deliverance, he does, however grand deliverances (salvations) to his elect, as they sojourn here in this world, and the elect has the choice to accept it or reject it, which has nothing to do with risking their eternal inheritance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When we repent, and receive Him as our Lord and Saviour, giving and surrendering our lives and hearts to Him, trusting in Him to help us. Loving Him, selflessly, with all our hearts!!! He is everything!!! We are so blessed, He helps establish us, little by little, bit by bit...faith to faith.

You are right, but these actions come from the regenerate, and not from the unregenerate.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Then that would mean we could not recieve Jesus , recieve the Holy Spirit , recieve Christ's righteousness and be justified until we ' surrendered ' our lives . What ever that means? surely surrendering our lives takes a while ?

It is also something that the natural man, before he has been regenerated, would never do.

 

[Magenta]

God does not "grant" eternal deliverance, he does, however grand deliverances (salvations) to his elect, as they sojourn here in this world, and the elect has the choice to accept it or reject it, which has nothing to do with risking their eternal inheritance.

Um, that is what I said: Molinism affirms that God grants salvation, and man has a choice to either accept or reject.

You seem to feel you have a need to correct me on things I do not even say.

I wonder why that is

 

[CharliRenee]

You are right, but these actions come from the regenerate, and not from the unregenerate.

I prefer these actions come with God, not without God. Everything is about Him and His work. I just want to keep my eyes on Him!!

 

[throughfaith]

Little by little, bit by bit...faith to faith.

Er no the bible says we recieve all of those things the moment we believe. Its not a instalment scheme.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

View attachment 222088

If by "changed", you mean from being dead in sins to being alive in Christ Jesus (born again), the unregenerate will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot understand, and thinks it to be foolish, 1 Cor 2:14. Repenting is an action that only the regenerate practice.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I prefer these actions come with God, not without God. Everything is about Him and His work. I just want to keep my eyes on Him!!

Your statement affirms that you have been regenerated with something that the unregenerate does not have.

 

[Magenta]

Er no the bible says we recieve all of those things the moment we believe. Its not a instalment scheme.

Neither do we boast beyond our limits in the labors of others. But we hope that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you will greatly increase as well, 2 Corinthians 10:15 affirms that faith grows over time. Also 2 Peter 3:18affirms growth ~ But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Er no the bible says we recieve all of those things the moment we believe. Its not a instalment scheme.

Isaiah 28:9-10, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and to whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the breast, and drawn from the breasts, For precept is upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little.

A new born babe in Christ has to grow into maturity, the same way that a newborn natural baby does. The newborn babes in Christ experience a deliverance (salvation), not eternal, but here in this world, when they come unto a knowledge of God's righteousness,

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Neither do we boast beyond our limits in the labors of others. But we hope that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you will greatly increase as well, 2 Corinthians 10:15 affirms that faith grows over time. Also 2 Peter 3:18affirms growth ~ But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

I believe that the scriptures are written in such a way that we never stop growing by a study of them.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Um, that is what I said: Molinism affirms that God grants salvation, and man has a choice to either accept or reject.

You seem to feel you have a need to correct me on things I do not even say.

I wonder why that is

I am sorry, if I misread your statement. that you were making reference to the views of the Molinism, and not your personal views.

 

[Magenta]

I am sorry, if I misread your statement. that you were making reference to the views of the Molinism, and not your personal views.

I don't need to put my beliefs in boxes either. As long as they align with Scripture, I'm good

^ Perhaps you missed this

 

[throughfaith]

That's just it! people do not become children of God, by faith in Christ.

I have explained this to you time and time again that the natural man only has faith in mankind, and what he accomplishes, which is not spiritual faith. To repeat myself; Spiritual faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, and only comes with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the new birth. The new birth is given by God's sovereign grace, without any participation of mankind.

Your agenda is to get the natural man to have the ability to believe in the things of the spirit, which contradicts scripture. I know that you do not like me mentioning harmonizing the scriptures, but you will not be able to understand the doctrine that Jesus taught if you have contradicting scriptures.

you say ///That's just it! people do not become children of God, by faith in Christ./// the bible says different in John 1.12 ? It kinda works like this example . I say to my child. " if you tidy your room ,I will take you to the park " . The prerequisite is ' tidy your room ' Now the tidying of the room ' does not ' cause ' them to go to the park ' . I take them to the park. Even better . All God requires from us ,is that we believe on his Son . Then God saves us . The believing does not ' cause ' the regeneration. God regenerates after we believe. Believing is the prerequisite That pleases God.