When Did The Church Begin

[Spurgeoncy]

Ack. My question was unclear. lol

How do you know prophetic has something to do with the church?

Ephesians 2:
[FONT=&quot]11 So then, remember that at one time you Gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a physical circumcision made in the flesh by human hands— [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]12 remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both groups into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]15 He has abolished the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]16 and might reconcile both groups to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]17 So he came and proclaimed peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]18 for through him both of us have access in one Spirit to the Father. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are citizens with the saints and also members of the household of God, [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]21 In him the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]22 in whom you also are built together spiritually into a dwelling place for God.[/FONT]

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Ephesians 2:
11 So then, remember that at one time you Gentiles by birth, called “the uncircumcision” by those who are called “the circumcision”—a physical circumcision made in the flesh by human hands— 12 remember that you were at that time without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace; in his flesh he has made both groups into one and has broken down the dividing wall, that is, the hostility between us. 15 He has abolished the law with its commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new humanity in place of the two, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both groups to God in one body through the cross, thus putting to death that hostility through it. 17 So he came and proclaimed peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him both of us have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are citizens with the saints and also members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.21 In him the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; 22 in whom you also are built together spiritually into a dwelling place for God.

Yeah. Who laid that foundation of the apostles and prophets? Which apostles and prophets is he speaking about as well!

1 Cor 3.10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me (Paul speaking), as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Rom 15.20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation

Paul says he laid the foundation. And to take heed how you build on that foundation. Building on that foundation WHERE CHRIST WAS NAMED is building on ANOTHER man's foundation. You must rightly divide the word of truth. Less you build on ANOTHER foundation. Another Jesus, another gospel. Laying a foundation built from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John IS building on another foundation. The foundation WHERE CHRIST WAS NAMED. As the verse above clearly says!

 

[zone]

Only people saved under Paul's gospel can be part of the body of Christ. That's people saved after Paul up until present day. The Church in Acts 2 is the part of Israels prophecy. The body of Christ doesn't start till Act's 9. All people before the dispensation of Grace and after the rapture will be part of Israel's kingdom on Earth. Our destiny is Heaven, not Earth. We won't rule and reign with Christ on Earth. We be in Heaven.

h-y-y-y-y-y-y-per dispie

 

[fredoheaven]

What is the gospel that Paul taught?

1 Corinthians 15
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Can you show me in Scripture where that was the same message Jesus and His disciples were going around preaching? In fact, the disciples had no clue about Christ's death until after the fact. The message was not exactly the same. In our ears, we better get the gospel message correct. Eternal life is at stake.

Hi Sir John,

As the Op is all about the ‘beginning’, I have proposed to start also with the beginning, that the Gospel which basically means ‘good news’ of salvation started by Christ in His early earthly ministry. Mark says of that and as well as of John. The two writers point to us the beginning of the grace and the gospel. It begins with Christ, no it’s not in the Apostles, and they are only recipients of what has been manifested by Christ. The gospel preached by the Apostles is both the person and the message. I agree that the message of this gospel by Paul is about the death, burial and resurrection of whom? It is of Christ as you have well stated. It was of course we know that of the gospel kingdom which did Christ preached but scores of people were saved then by grace through faith before pre-cross.

The message is still the same that Jesus Christ is the Saviour and the cross is to end all the provisions of the Mosaic law, the Levitical offerings. The Gospel that Apostle Paul, Peter and others after the cross are the same which is the Gospel of the grace of God, pertaining to the death burial and resurrection of Christ. Acts 2 is the transition of the church, being the members of the Church are mainly Jews. The mystery of the church is that believing Gentiles will be placed under the body of Christ. Acts 9 is also no true as to the beginning of the Church. If one is to believe in the KJV then the proposition of Acts 9 is not true since Paul before his conversion made havoc of the church.

Thanks

 

[fredoheaven]

If you want to try to start the body of Christ in Acts 2 and anywhere else besides Act's 9, you will come across many conflicting and contradictory verses. Here is a few for you.

Hebrews 2.3-5

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

So apparently, there was a great salvation that was FIRST spoken by the Lord. Matthew-John. And then was CONFIRMED unto them that heard him. The church in the begging of the book of Acts. These things have ALWAYS been in prophecy. They have always been prophesied. Hence, the word SPOKEN. Now if something began with the Lord and was confirmed in Acts 2. How can Paul say that the body of Christ was NEVER made known until revealed to him from Christ???

This fact is about “that which was spoken” not the actual fulfillment. This is only a partial fulfillment. Well you really did not come up with the whole counsel of the word. That skipping the main theme that is all about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as Peter speaks of.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption

 

[fredoheaven]

Eph 3.1-9

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

Okay, the dispensation of the grace of God was revealed unto his holy apostles not just for Paul and the mystery of the church as the scripture says is that Gentile should be fellow heirs and of the same body and partaker of his promise in Christ. This is to note of the SAME body not two. So the church that Jesus founded is not in Acts 9 and even in Acts 2 but rather it began in the calling of the 12.

 

[fredoheaven]

If you want to try to start the body of Christ in Acts 2 and anywhere else besides Act's 9, you will come across many conflicting and contradictory verses. Here is a few for you.


Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

The church refers to as the mystery (unknown) to Gentiles but through Apostle Paul being the Apostle to the Gentile was made possible to become fellow heirs in the SAME body. This is all about the verse is trying to say. We have to note also that under the ministry of Peter, Gentile Cornelius was saved.

God bless you

 

[fredoheaven]

Yeah. Who laid that foundation of the apostles and prophets? Which apostles and prophets is he speaking about as well!

1 Cor 3.10
According to the grace of God which is given unto me (Paul speaking), as a wise masterbuilder, I (Paul) have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

Rom 15.20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man’s foundation

Paul says he laid the foundation. And to take heed how you build on that foundation. Building on that foundation WHERE CHRIST WAS NAMED is building on ANOTHER man's foundation. You must rightly divide the word of truth. Less you build on ANOTHER foundation. Another Jesus, another gospel. Laying a foundation built from Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John IS building on another foundation. The foundation WHERE CHRIST WAS NAMED. As the verse above clearly says!

True it was Paul who pioneered the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentile as it was recorded in Acts 9, followed by Peter in Acts 10, however, when it concerned the beginning of the church, it begin long before Acts 9 and so with Acts 2. In Romans 1:16 Paul is ready to recognize that the Gospel of Christ is to the Jew first then to the Gentile (Greek).

Romans 1:16 Context

[SUP]13[/SUP]Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. [SUP]14[/SUP]I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. [SUP]15[/SUP]So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. [SUP]16[/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [SUP]17[/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [SUP]18[/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [SUP]19[/SUP]Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

 

[Angela53510]

You keep missing the Lord Jesus Christ for your "Paul only glasses". We don't need to know the mystery of Christ and the riches of the glory of Him being in us in order to be saved. Christ Himself is the Savior.

I love the mystery of Christ and the epistles of Paul "explain" what happened to the believer that is in Christ but people were in Christ before Paul was even saved.

You are wasting your time trying to get me to believe this stuff. You would have better luck trying to tell me the earth is flat.

It's stuff like this that makes people not understand James's epistle and to try to say he is talking to the Jews in some distant time zone in the future because he says "to the 12 tribes scatter abroad". He is just writing to the Jewish people and James is one of the very first letters written in the NT.

Plus he was an apostle to the Jews too just like Peter was. It was his calling. Just like some people today are called to certain ethnic groups of people of the Lord.

Technically, the Diaspora, (12 tribes scattered abroad1) when first Israel was taken into captivity in 722 BC. Most of those 10 tribes never returned to the new province of Samaria. Then, the Babylonians took Judah captive (this included Benjamin) in 568 BC. Some of those people did return to Jerusalem, but many never did.

So when James wrote of a diaspora, he was talking about something that started 700 years before Christ was born.

@RomanstoP

As far as Paul, he was a great apostle, and we owe so much of the NT to him. Does that mean the church didn't start till he was converted? That is the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard. The church has always been the "called out ones" or ekklesia. It doesn't matter the time or place. There were believers in the OT. They knew they were waiting for the Messiah. And they lived their lives the best way they knew how to. The disciples were the first ones to believe. Christ certainly called them, and then they followed.

Again, RomanstoPh... I would respectfully ask that you stop watching loopy internet videos for a few years. Read your
bible independently. Take a course on Bible interpretation, and you will see how you have been deceived.

You asked me before if I was jealous of you, but I was no longer posting on that thread. I can only shake my head and wonder for what reason I would be jealous of you, if that was a weak point in my character, which it is not! You have no Biblical knowledge but instead, you are believing weird, conspiracy nonsense, and in ideas which no scholar in the world would vindicate.

Sometimes, I have hopes for people who come here as newbies, that they might be here to learn and grow. And contribute to the forum. You have not become one of those people from the posts I see you have started, and the other posts. You have the audacity to come up with constant garbage, with a attitude bordering on delusions of grandeur, and certainly no common sense at all.

I was a Christian for for 25 years before I went to Seminary. I had read the Bible 30 times by that time, including in many different translations, and also in French. If you would just do that - read the Bible, over and over, you might see the error of your ways. I do pity you. So close to the Kingdom of God, and yet so far.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

This fact is about “that which was spoken” not the actual fulfillment. This is only a partial fulfillment. Well you really did not come up with the whole counsel of the word. That skipping the main theme that is all about the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as Peter speaks of.

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption

The resurrection is not part of the mystery my friend. The death, burial, and resurrection is in prophecy. It's always been there. Lets read.

Mark 9.32
For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him.

They understood NOT what it meant.

Luke 9.43-45
And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

They understood NOT why he must be delivered.

Matt 17.23
And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

They were sorry??? I thought this was the good news. They understood NOT what these sayings were. All of this is in prophecy BEFORE Paul was ever saved. Before the MYSTERY was ever revealed to Paul.

Lets take this further...

Paul says his gospel is the gospel of the uncircumcision, while Peters is the gospel of the circumcision. Paul clearly rightly dividing HIS gospel with Peter's gospel. Lets read...

Gal 2.7-8

But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me *Paul*, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: )

Let's see what Jesus has to say about this

Rom 15.8
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Matt 15.24
But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
But he *Jesus* answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

I honestly could keep going.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Okay, the dispensation of the grace of God was revealed unto his holy apostles not just for Paul and the mystery of the church as the scripture says is that Gentile should be fellow heirs and of the same body and partaker of his promise in Christ. This is to note of the SAME body not two. So the church that Jesus founded is not in Acts 9 and even in Acts 2 but rather it began in the calling of the 12.

I address this issue in depth in another thread. I'll repost:

“Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;” – Eph 3:5

Ephesians 3:5 and Rom 16.26 mentions apostles and prophets that know the mystery of Christ. Sincere saints are troubled at this verse thinking that it either discounts Paul’s special apostleship, or shows that the mystery was known before Paul.

There is no need to be troubled about this verse right in the middle of one of the clearest passages about the mystery of Christ in Paul’s letters. These are not the twelve apostles of the prophesied kingdom gospel, nor are they the prophets of the Old Testament. These are apostles and prophets belonging to the church, the Body of Christ.

Paul First of All

There is no doubt that Paul’s apostleship is unique, having been separated by the Lord himself. The mystery of Christ was first revealed to Paul, who was a “chosen vessel” sent as an apostle of Jesus Christ with a new dispensation of the gospel (Acts 9:15, 1 Cor 9:17).

Just a couple verses before Eph 3:5 Paul explains that the dispensation was given to him regarding the mystery:

“If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery…” – Eph 3:2-3

To the Corinthians Paul declares that he delivered the gospel unto them “first of all” (1 Cor 15:3).
To the Romans Paul claims to be a separated apostle (Rom 1:1), and magnifies his office as the dispenser of God’s grace to Gentiles:“For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:” – Rom 11:13
However, although he was the first apostle of the church he was not the only apostle.

Apostles of the Church

The church the Body of Christ had many apostles and prophets when it began nearly two thousand years ago.
Paul could not be everywhere at once. While he traveled ministering his gospel, others were recruited by the Spirit to help.
We should not forget that the Spirit gave gifts of prophecy and positions of apostleship to others after Paul in the newly revealed church of Christ’s body.

“…To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy;…” – 1 Cor 12:10

“And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, …” – 1 Cor 12:28

Timothy, Silvanus, and Epaphroditus are all called apostles by Paul in his letters (1 Thess 2:6, Phil 2:25).
It was these Spirit filled church apostles who also prophesied mystery truths as they were laying the foundation of the early church wherever they were sent (Eph 2:20).

After the church was established in mystery truth these foundational gifts were no longer needed (1 Cor 13:10-11).

“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith…” – Eph 4:11-12

Twelve Apostles Excluded

None of the twelve apostles of the kingdom were also apostles of the church. The only foundation they laid was of Jesus Christ according to prophecy. The twelve apostles were apostles of Israel’s twelve tribes in their earthly kingdom.
None of the Twelve knew the mystery when they were sent with their gospel. When they were chosen by the Lord they did not know that Christ needed to die, not to mention anything about the mystery preaching of the cross (Luke 18:34).

The Spirit gave the Twelve understanding of what the prophets spoke since the world began at Pentecost, but not a word was spoken about the mystery kept secret since the world began (Acts 3:21, 3:24; vs Rom 16:25).

The apostles and prophets of Ephesians 3:5 and Rom 16.26 can not possibly be anything but church apostles and prophets since Paul was the first to receive the mystery of Christ, and the only apostles and prophets who have knowledge of the mystery come after Paul as part of the church not Israel’s kingdom.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

The church refers to as the mystery (unknown) to Gentiles but through Apostle Paul being the Apostle to the Gentile was made possible to become fellow heirs in the SAME body. This is all about the verse is trying to say. We have to note also that under the ministry of Peter, Gentile Cornelius was saved.

God bless you

I've address the Cornelius in another thread as well. I'll address it again.

A common mistake is to make Cornelius the pattern for the mystery of Christ since he was a Gentile. Yet, Cornelius was neither a result of Paul’s ministry nor the mystery message of Christ.
The Lord revealed the mystery of Christ first to Paul (1 Tim 1:16). Paul was saved in Acts 9. The story of Cornelius is in Acts 10, but Peter is the minister not Paul.
Peter goes to him after a vision from the Lord and ministers to him the gospel of the kingdom. Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ. Cornelius and his house became a sign to Israel that the Spirit was receiving repentant Gentiles into Peter’s remnant group.
Cornelius’ Obedience
Cornelius was not a pagan Gentile. He was one who walked in obedience to the God of Israel:

[FONT=&quot]“A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.” – Acts 10:2[/FONT]
It was because of his obedience and faithfulness to God’s instructions that he received the vision.

[FONT=&quot]“Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” – Acts 10:4[/FONT]
Cornelius would know that Israel was God’s people and were the chosen mediation between God and Gentiles. When Peter reluctantly arrived at this Gentile’s house, Cornelius quickly honored him knowing that he was a Jew. This was in accordance with Genesis 12:3.

[FONT=&quot]“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.” – Acts 10:25[/FONT]
Today, prayers and alms are not prequisites of Gentiles who are freely offered salvation through the direct mediation of Christ. What was hidden in time past was revealed in the mystery of Christ. Cornelius did not understand the mystery.
Peter’s Law Message
Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. In Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in Mat 23:1.

[FONT=&quot]“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;” – Acts 10:28[/FONT]
The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law. Peter did not have a clue. He was told that he should not call any man unclean. A Gentile’s faith and righteous works were acceptable to God.
God does not respect persons as was explained by the law and the prophets (Deut 16:19, Prov 28:21).
God told Peter that Gentiles who worked righteousness could be accepted into the believing kingdom group.

[FONT=&quot]“But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” – Acts 10:35[/FONT]
Peter’s Pentecostal Message
So far we have seen Peter confirm a positional separation between Jew and Gentile, though neither should be respected in judgment of their good works.
Peter continues to explain the message which Jesus ministered to Israel:

[FONT=&quot]“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel… which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;” – Acts 10:36-37[/FONT]
Clearly, Peter is teaching the same kingdom gospel that was taught by John, Jesus, and at Pentecost: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, the kingdom is at hand.
Of course, he includes his unique Pentecostal addition to the kingdom gospel which was that Jesus was resurrected proving his position as the prophesied Messiah and the Judge. It is by the name of Jesus that their sins could be remitted by repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12).
It was at this time that the Spirit fell on these devout Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus of Nazareth, sent unto Israel, slain by the Jews, and witnessed by Peter.
Nowhere do we find a hint of the mystery of Christ.
The Mystery still a Mystery
The only thing resembling the mystery ministry was that Cornelius was a Gentile, but Gentile believers were not a new or secret thing (Mat 15:28, Luke 7:3-8).
The mystery of Christ is not the blessing of Gentiles. It was long prophesied that the Gentiles would be blessed through Israel. It is the uniting of Jew and Gentile into one new thing (Eph 2:15). It is Christ in the Gentiles (Col 1:27); the blindness of Israel (Rom 11:25); the heavenly destiny (Phil 3:20); and the new means of glory in the cross (Gal 6:14), not the nation Israel.
The lesson taught to Peter by the Spirit in Acts 10 equipped him to later give the right hand of fellowship to Paul (Gal 2:9). Yet, Peter did not teach nor did Cornelius receive the mystery information about Christ. That the Gentiles possessed more faith than Israel was always a sign of Israel’s shameful rejection of God (Luke 7:9) . The book of Acts is about Israel’s rejection of God.

Links for more references:

[FONT=tahoma, verdana, sans-serif]http://graceambassadors.com/mystery/peter-taught-gentiles-yawwwn

[/FONT]http://graceambassadors.com/audio/peters-message-to-cornelius-and-the-gentiles <-Audio

Objection: &#8220;Peter taught Paul&#8217;s gospel to Cornelius&#8221; <- Audio

[video=youtube;ixQvJ1Id0Ng]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQvJ1Id0Ng[/video]

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

The church refers to as the mystery (unknown) to Gentiles but through Apostle Paul being the Apostle to the Gentile was made possible to become fellow heirs in the SAME body. This is all about the verse is trying to say. We have to note also that under the ministry of Peter, Gentile Cornelius was saved.

God bless you

I've address the Cornelius in another thread as well. I'll address it again.

A common mistake is to make Cornelius the pattern for the mystery of Christ since he was a Gentile. Yet, Cornelius was neither a result of Paul’s ministry nor the mystery message of Christ.

The Lord revealed the mystery of Christ first to Paul (1 Tim 1:16). Paul was saved in Acts 9. The story of Cornelius is in Acts 10, but Peter is the minister not Paul. Peter goes to him after a vision from the Lord and ministers to him the gospel of the kingdom. Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ. Cornelius and his house became a sign to Israel that the Spirit was receiving repentant Gentiles into Peter’s remnant group.

Cornelius’ Obedience

Cornelius was not a pagan Gentile. He was one who walked in obedience to the God of Israel:

“A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.” – Acts 10:2

It was because of his obedience and faithfulness to God’s instructions that he received the vision.

“Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” – Acts 10:4

Cornelius would know that Israel was God’s people and were the chosen mediation between God and Gentiles. When Peter reluctantly arrived at this Gentile’s house, Cornelius quickly honored him knowing that he was a Jew. This was in accordance with Genesis 12:3.

“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.” – Acts 10:25

Today, prayers and alms are not prequisites of Gentiles who are freely offered salvation through the direct mediation of Christ. What was hidden in time past was revealed in the mystery of Christ. Cornelius did not understand the mystery.

Peter’s Law Message

Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. In Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in Mat 23:1.

“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation;” – Acts 10:28

The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law. Peter did not have a clue. He was told that he should not call any man unclean. A Gentile’s faith and righteous works were acceptable to God. God does not respect persons as was explained by the law and the prophets (Deut 16:19, Prov 28:21). God told Peter that Gentiles who worked righteousness could be accepted into the believing kingdom group.

“But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” – Acts 10:35

Peter’s Pentecostal Message

So far we have seen Peter confirm a positional separation between Jew and Gentile, though neither should be respected in judgment of their good works. Peter continues to explain the message which Jesus ministered to Israel:

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel… which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;” – Acts 10:36-37

Clearly, Peter is teaching the same kingdom gospel that was taught by John, Jesus, and at Pentecost: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, the kingdom is at hand. Of course, he includes his unique Pentecostal addition to the kingdom gospel which was that Jesus was resurrected proving his position as the prophesied Messiah and the Judge. It is by the name of Jesus that their sins could be remitted by repentance and baptism (Acts 2:38, Acts 4:12).

It was at this time that the Spirit fell on these devout Gentiles who believed on the name of Jesus of Nazareth, sent unto Israel, slain by the Jews, and witnessed by Peter. Nowhere do we find a hint of the mystery of Christ.

The Mystery still a Mystery

The only thing resembling the mystery ministry was that Cornelius was a Gentile, but Gentile believers were not a new or secret thing (Mat 15:28, Luke 7:3-8). The mystery of Christ is not the blessing of Gentiles. It was long prophesied that the Gentiles would be blessed through Israel. It is the uniting of Jew and Gentile into one new thing (Eph 2:15). It is Christ in the Gentiles (Col 1:27); the blindness of Israel (Rom 11:25); the heavenly destiny (Phil 3:20); and the new means of glory in the cross (Gal 6:14), not the nation Israel.

The lesson taught to Peter by the Spirit in Acts 10 equipped him to later give the right hand of fellowship to Paul (Gal 2:9). Yet, Peter did not teach nor did Cornelius receive the mystery information about Christ. That the Gentiles possessed more faith than Israel was always a sign of Israel’s shameful rejection of God (Luke 7:9) . The book of Acts is about Israel’s rejection of God.

Links for more references:

http://graceambassadors.com/mystery/peter-taught-gentiles-yawwwn

http://graceambassadors.com/audio/peters-message-to-cornelius-and-the-gentiles <-Audio

Objection: “Peter taught Paul’s gospel to Cornelius” <- Audio

[video=youtube;ixQvJ1Id0Ng]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixQvJ1Id0Ng[/video]

 

[posthuman]

Just a couple verses before Eph 3:5 Paul explains that the dispensation was given to him regarding the mystery

just one verse after specifically states "the mystery" :

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles - if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.​

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;​

to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,
​

of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.
(Ephesians 3:1-7)


​

 

[posthuman]

wouldn't it go back even a little further to the first sacrifice for sins (the death of animals for covering)?

could it go back even further than all those events, as we were chosen in Him before the foundation of the world . . ?

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

True it was Paul who pioneered the preaching of the Gospel to the Gentile as it was recorded in Acts 9, followed by Peter in Acts 10, however, when it concerned the beginning of the church, it begin long before Acts 9 and so with Acts 2. In Romans 1:16 Paul is ready to recognize that the Gospel of Christ is to the Jew first then to the Gentile (Greek).

Romans 1:16 Context

[SUP]13[/SUP]Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. [SUP]14[/SUP]I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise. [SUP]15[/SUP]So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also. [SUP]16[/SUP]For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [SUP]17[/SUP]For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [SUP]18[/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; [SUP]19[/SUP]Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

It's to the Jew first, because they did have salvation first. But in that salvation, in Israel's salvation. In times past, it was ONLY to the Jew. And only to through the Jews, had they accepted their messiah, that they would have gone to the gentile nations with salvation; never was it both Jew and gentile. That is not so any more my friend. It's to the Jew first, because the Jews were first to have salvation, but ALSO to the Greek.

Never before Paul was salvation to the Jew AND the Greek. It was only to the Jew, and through them to the rest of the nations. In TIMES PAST we were cut off from salvation from God. Aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, no hope - without God. BUT NOW, that middle wall of partition between both Jew and Gentile has been abolished.

For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Eph 2.11-19
Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Never before Paul will you see these truths. EVER. The mystery is everything from Romans-Philemon. You will not find the body of Christ outside of Paul's epistles. It's an impossibility. Paul says clearly that if these mystery truths had been revealed before given to him, Christ would NOT have been crucified. So this idea that Acts 2 is part of the body of Christ is impossible, because Christ would never have been killed. Think about that!

1 Cor 2.6-8
Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Audio response: Skip about 10 minutes in if you desire Romans 1:16-21

[video=youtube;G6s47TUnFmw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=121&amp;v=G6s47TUnFmw[/video]

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

Technically, the Diaspora, (12 tribes scattered abroad1) when first Israel was taken into captivity in 722 BC. Most of those 10 tribes never returned to the new province of Samaria. Then, the Babylonians took Judah captive (this included Benjamin) in 568 BC. Some of those people did return to Jerusalem, but many never did.

So when James wrote of a diaspora, he was talking about something that started 700 years before Christ was born.

@RomanstoP

As far as Paul, he was a great apostle, and we owe so much of the NT to him. Does that mean the church didn't start till he was converted? That is the most ridiculous assertion I have ever heard. The church has always been the "called out ones" or ekklesia. It doesn't matter the time or place. There were believers in the OT. They knew they were waiting for the Messiah. And they lived their lives the best way they knew how to. The disciples were the first ones to believe. Christ certainly called them, and then they followed.

Again, RomanstoPh... I would respectfully ask that you stop watching loopy internet videos for a few years. Read your
bible independently. Take a course on Bible interpretation, and you will see how you have been deceived.

You asked me before if I was jealous of you, but I was no longer posting on that thread. I can only shake my head and wonder for what reason I would be jealous of you, if that was a weak point in my character, which it is not! You have no Biblical knowledge but instead, you are believing weird, conspiracy nonsense, and in ideas which no scholar in the world would vindicate.

Sometimes, I have hopes for people who come here as newbies, that they might be here to learn and grow. And contribute to the forum. You have not become one of those people from the posts I see you have started, and the other posts. You have the audacity to come up with constant garbage, with a attitude bordering on delusions of grandeur, and certainly no common sense at all.

I was a Christian for for 25 years before I went to Seminary. I had read the Bible 30 times by that time, including in many different translations, and also in French. If you would just do that - read the Bible, over and over, you might see the error of your ways. I do pity you. So close to the Kingdom of God, and yet so far.

Not an argument.

 

[posthuman]

Never before Paul will you see these truths. EVER.

​

before Christ, who opens the eyes of the blind, it was not seen, but it has been, before the foundation of the world.

You search the Scriptures
because you think that in them you have eternal life;
and it is they that bear witness about me
(John 5:39)


Behold, I am doing a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.
(Isaiah 43:19)


For I will pour water on the thirsty land
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your descendants
and My blessing on your offspring.
They will sprout among the grass
like poplars by flowing streams.
This one will say, ‘I am the LORD’s’;
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, ‘The LORD’s,’
and name himself by the name of Israel
(Isaiah 44:3-5)​

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

just one verse after specifically states "the mystery" :

For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles - if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.​

By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,​

of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.(Ephesians 3:1-7)​

​

Well, lets read the whole section if you want to bring up Ephesians. And I don't use the bible you use. You are using corrupted manuscripts. I only use a KJB. We will never agree on anything, because your bible contradicts my bible.

Eph 3.1-13
For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed *NOW REVEALED* unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Whereof I (Paul) was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable (Unsearchable. Can't search for these riches in Christ outside of Paul's revelation!) riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God (HIDDEN IN GOD FROM THE BEGINNING!), who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

Compare this verse with Rom 16.25, 1 Cor 2.6-8, Col 1.25-26, Gal 1.11-12

The mystery was not known about, not preached about, not written about, not even the angels knew it. For had they known it, Christ would not have been crucified. The church in Acts 2 is the believing remnant of Israel! Their purpose is a kingdom on Earth. Without the body of Christ, there is no one to reclaim the HEAVENLY REALM. In the beginning God created the HEAVEN and the EARTH. Two realms. Spiritual and physical. Satan controls both. The agency of the body of Christ will reclaim the heavens. The agency of Israel will reclaim the Earth. And after the 1000 year reign will God join BOTH together.

 

[RomansToPhilemon]

​

before Christ, who opens the eyes of the blind, it was not seen, but it has been, before the foundation of the world.

You search the Scriptures
because you think that in them you have eternal life;
and it is they that bear witness about me
(John 5:39)


Behold, I am doing a new thing;
now it springs forth, do you not perceive it?
I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert.
(Isaiah 43:19)


For I will pour water on the thirsty land
and streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your descendants
and My blessing on your offspring.
They will sprout among the grass
like poplars by flowing streams.
This one will say, ‘I am the LORD’s’;
another will call himself by the name of Jacob;
still another will write on his hand, ‘The LORD’s,’
and name himself by the name of Israel
(Isaiah 44:3-5)​

Not an argument.