When does the rapture occur?

[JesusIsAll]

Wow,so bizarre that you think AFTER THE GT,jesus comes and provides an escape not realizing he is too late to fulfill his own prophetic promise? (.....accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass......)

Oh,wait,maybe you think no one is worthy?

You don't understand. The Lord never had the benefit of message board prophets to set Him straight.

 

[Elin]

Postrib still has no verses?

Huh,nothing has changed.

Maybe some newbie can help you guys???????

Rather than private uncertain interpretation of prophetic riddles, which are interpreted differently throughout the body of Christ, see the OP for certain NT teaching which locates the resurrection, rapture and second coming with final judgment at the end time

 

[popeye]

When you look at a congregation, all are ostensibly virgins, but any pastor who knows their congregation knows there are those not really saved. Knows there are those just going to church. It's pretty stark, of what the Lord says to the unwise virgins, "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." I would ask, of somebody saved and of the Holy Spirit, can the Lord not know somebody with His Spirit dwelling in them, by any measure?

False believers bask in the light of true believers, even in the presence of Christ (Matthew 18:20), but have no light their own, are even doing a "playing church" thing in their "Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out." They can't be born again and have no Spirit, no light. Of course, it's even a ridiculous request of no spiritual understanding, as no man can provide salvation or the Spirit to another, but this is how false believers, with a lip service faith, view salvation, being part of a group, a religion, rituals, etc. They are a picture of the Loadiceans, who may find salvation in the fires of tribulation, but it's certain the Lord would not turn away somebody He knows, of His Spirit indwelling.

I think of it on the order of there being tares and wheat that look alike, the congregation looking like a field of wheat, when this isn't so. I don't know how you get past the the Lord says He doesn't even know the unwise virgins, how a true believer can have no Holy Spirit and no light. I think we have to keep in mind the Holy Spirit does the work of salvation, all tasting of the Holy Spirit that draws sinners and convicts of sin, continually convicting in a church congregation, with the hearing of His word, but some where that seed does not take root, who the Lord doesn't baptize in the Holy Spirit, the Lord who knows all hearts and those who truly repent and mourn their sin, who come in truth, as opposed to those who receive the word with head faith, have some emotional experience, but have not really come to the foot of the cross and repented at the Spirit's leading.

Again, the Lord cannot say He doesn't know somebody, with His indwelling Spirit. This would be like saying, "I don't know Myself." An absurdity. And if somebody doesn't have the Holy Spirit, they are not born again of the Spirit. You can't get around the basic truth of being born again, or not.

Baptism of the HS is a second work of the believer.

But even if you dissagree with that,the infilling and the dying (pick up my cross daily) are indeed both daily needs of any believer.

If you try to transpose salvation onto the 5 foolish then,like I said, they had oil,they had light,they were undefiled,pure virgins. Not even remotely possible they were unsaved.

But even if that is not convincing,if this theory is played out,,then salvation needs extra salvation (oil) to be sure one is saved for an extended period. We could also wake up,and find ourselves unsaved. But a fresh supply of salvation we could purchase. Salvation is a private work between God and man. The annointing oil is applied by man.(hence the perfect fit of oil being applied through another believer) "give us SOME of your oil"........as opposed to the error of "our salvation has run out" IMPOSSIBLE FIT.

It become hands down clear,that the type used in the OT (oil) is the same type used in mat 25.

Pual,when he arrived ;

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

See that ? "brother" = save believer.

HS= second work.

Do all receive the HS at salvation w/o the second work? yes. (smaller annointing)

We see this with saul and david
saul=small vial
david= the whole horn of oil.

We see the huge difference these portions produced in each ministry.Saul paled to David's anointing.

I recieved the 2nd work in 1977 during the tail end of the charasmatic movement.

 

[popeye]

To Nancy, VCO, Popeye or anyone else who sees the Wedding before the Tribulation or even before the Millennium, please walk me through the progression. You claim the Bride is the Church taken before the Tribulation. How then does Israel and the Tribulation Saints become part of the Bride if the wedding is over?

Since you see the Wedding before or during the Trib and the Bride returning with Christ after the GT to reign for 1,000 years, explain how the Bride gets back to heaven again so that they can return here?

Rev 21: “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...

We see the Bride coming down from heaven after the Millenium in the above passage. So, do you teach a second rapture of the Church or do you teach multiple weddings. Does Christ have multiple Brides such as the Pre-Trib Church, the Post-Trib Saints (both alive and those who die), the Repentant Israel and those who die and live through the Millennium? How many Raptures, Returns, Weddings do you teach? How does each group end up back in Heaven before the Eternal State so that they are all together in the above passage?

How then does Israel and the Tribulation Saints become part of the Bride if the wedding is over?

Like I said harvest is 4 parts (leviticus)
Jesus and the patriarchs ins 1st fruits
Main harvest =1 thes 4,alive saints the dead in christ,and the immediate martyrdom of those left behind.
Corners =144k
Gleanings=remnant Jews

We are all there at the marrige supper.In fact this is promised in acts 5 or so "..........at the restoration of ALL THINGS..."

Rev 21: “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” [SUP]10 [/SUP]And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...

We see the Bride coming down from heaven after the Millenium in the above passage. So, do you teach a second rapture of the Church or do you teach multiple weddings.

Two separate entities. The new jerusalem does NOT sit down with jesus at the table in heaven. It is a building and it neither interacts as a saint,nor does it ride a white horse with jesus.

New jerusalem= bride (strictly descriptive)=building=dwelling place of God and his pple

Bride of christ = saints=patriarchs(first fruits)=2 witnesses = 144k (first fruit jews)= last fruits (Jews)

 

[FancyNancy]

To Nancy, VCO, Popeye or anyone else who sees the Wedding before the Tribulation or even before the Millennium, please walk me through the progression. You claim the Bride is the Church taken before the Tribulation. How then does Israel and the Tribulation Saints become part of the Bride if the wedding is over?

They are not a part of the Bride, as they are outside of the New Covenant.

Since you see the Wedding before or during the Trib and the Bride returning with Christ after the GT to reign for 1,000 years, explain how the Bride gets back to heaven again so that they can return here?

The Judgment Seat of Christ and the Wedding of the Lamb take place while the Tribulation era is occurring on earth. It takes place in heaven when we are caught up to meet our Bridegroom in the heavens and taken directly to the "Father's House" to be married. We don't "Get back to heaven again"! We come from heaven with Jesus.

Rev 21: “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God...

We see the Bride coming down from heaven after the Millenium in the above passage. So, do you teach a second rapture of the Church or do you teach multiple weddings. Does Christ have multiple Brides such as the Pre-Trib Church, the Post-Trib Saints (both alive and those who die), the Repentant Israel and those who die and live through the Millennium? How many Raptures, Returns, Weddings do you teach? How does each group end up back in Heaven before the Eternal State so that they are all together in the above passage?

That is NOT the Bride, but the glorious City of God, adorned AS A BRIDE.

Revelation 21:2
And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

It will be our home, the City of God, the capital city of the new earth.

 

[VCO]

The 'event' that we call 'Armageddon' ( Revelation 16:16 ) is not even part of the Great Tribulation Period.

It takes place during the Wrath of God.

Understand?

Do you understand?

1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[VCO]

They are not a part of the Bride, as they are outside of the New Covenant.



The Judgment Seat of Christ and the Wedding of the Lamb take place while the Tribulation era is occurring on earth. It takes place in heaven when we are caught up to meet our Bridegroom in the heavens and taken directly to the "Father's House" to be married. We don't "Get back to heaven again"! We come from heaven with Jesus.



That is NOT the Bride, but the glorious City of God, adorned AS A BRIDE.

Revelation 21:2
And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

It will be our home, the City of God, the capital city of the new earth.

The Tribulation Saints are Wedding Guests at the Wedding Ceremony and the Wedding Supper; while the 144,000, most likely are only Wedding Guests at the Wedding Supper.

 

[flob]

No, dear sister. The New Jerusalem is the Bride, the Wife, of the Lamb.
She is not an inanimate structure.
She is you and me...


Heb 12:22; Gal 4:26; John 14:2-3, 23; Eph 5:25-27, 29-32; Gen 2:18-24; 1 Cor 6:17; Rev 12:1; 22:17.





Also: Days are coming, declares Jehovah, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah...I will put My law within them and write it upon their hearts, and I will be their God, and they will be My people. And they will no longer teach, each one his neighbor, and each man his brother, saying, Know Jehovah, for all of them will know Me, from the little one among them even to the great one among them, declares Jehovah, for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.
Jer 31:31-34

 

[FancyNancy]

The Tribulation Saints are Wedding Guests at the Wedding Ceremony and the Wedding Supper; while the 144,000, most likely are only Wedding Guests at the Wedding Supper.

I think the Tribulation saints are included as guests to the feast, but they are not the Church and will not be part of the wedding.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Nope. YOU read it. It speaks of the wedding feast.

I have read it and here it is;

Revelation 19:1
And after these things..........................( Those things being the things that happen in the tribulation/great tribulation period)

Revelation 19:7
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Revelation 19:9
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


Revelation 19 is set after the Great Tribulation event..........................................

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed—the one who brings destruction. [SUP]4 [/SUP]He will exalt himself and defy everything that people call god and every object of worship. He will even sit in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God.

The Antichrist will reveal himself as the evil man of sin at the midpoint of the seven years of Tribulation. If you are a Christian, you will be in heaven enjoying the wedding.

This will happen before the Lord returns with His saints to vanquish His enemies and to establish His Kingdom on the Earth.

You have the man of sin being revealed in the middle of the 7 year period, which starts the final 3 1/2 years called the Great Tribulation.

But the part you have wrong is by stating we will already be enjoying the wedding in heaven at this point, because I just showed you how Revelation 19 shows the marriage and supper both take place after the GT.

The other part that some seem to do in quoting 2 Thessalonians 2 as you have done is try and leave off the first 2 verses;


2 Thessalonians 2:1-2

1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.


2 Thessalonians 2:3

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



We can not be in heaven enjoying the wedding when Apostle Paul clearly says our gathering together with the Lord does not take place tell after the man of sin is revealed !!!

 

[VCO]

Baptism of the HS is a second work of the believer.

But even if you dissagree with that,the infilling and the dying (pick up my cross daily) are indeed both daily needs of any believer.

If you try to transpose salvation onto the 5 foolish then,like I said, they had oil,they had light,they were undefiled,pure virgins. Not even remotely possible they were unsaved.

But even if that is not convincing,if this theory is played out,,then salvation needs extra salvation (oil) to be sure one is saved for an extended period. We could also wake up,and find ourselves unsaved. But a fresh supply of salvation we could purchase. Salvation is a private work between God and man. The annointing oil is applied by man.(hence the perfect fit of oil being applied through another believer) "give us SOME of your oil"........as opposed to the error of "our salvation has run out" IMPOSSIBLE FIT.

It become hands down clear,that the type used in the OT (oil) is the same type used in mat 25.

Pual,when he arrived ;

17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

See that ? "brother" = save believer.

HS= second work.

Do all receive the HS at salvation w/o the second work? yes. (smaller annointing)

We see this with saul and david
saul=small vial
david= the whole horn of oil.

We see the huge difference these portions produced in each ministry.Saul paled to David's anointing.

I recieved the 2nd work in 1977 during the tail end of the charasmatic movement.

Wrong, you are giving Baptism by the Spirit another definition than the one the Bible gives it. The first work of the Holy Spirit is to Baptize us into one body, the spiritual Body of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 6:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Part true. Part not true. See below.



It is a false teaching that any part of the tribulation is God's wrath...



No.
No.


Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


29 - AFTER the tribulation, some stuff happens...

30 - THEN, Jesus appears with clouds...

31 - THEN, the elect are gathered...

Now - whether you are someone who believes that verse 31 is talking about the [ first ] rapture or the - uh - - second rapture (sic) -- I am "pretty sure" you believe that those who are 'gathered' are removed from the earth - where the Wrath of God is about to "be unleashed"...

( i.e. - the Wrath of God occurs AFTER the event described in verse 31 )

All who belong to God are removed so as to not have to go through the Wrath of God, right?

And, there is no one to 'gather' after the Wrath of God; at best, some of the wicked may remain ( alive ) after the Wrath of God ( but, possibly / probably not ).

( i.e. - only the wicked are left / present on the earth for / during the Wrath of God; none - or very precious few - are left afterward )

This means that the order of events in this scenario is:

~ Great Tribulation Period

~ Jesus appears

~ Elect 'gathered'

~ Wrath of God

Therefore:

~ God's Wrath is AFTER the Great Tribulation Period


If the Wrath of God occurred at the end of the Great Tribulation Period, there would be no one left afterward to experience what occurs in verses 29, 30, and 31 above.


I believe that the description in verse 29 correlates with the trumpet events.

I believe that the description in verse 30 is the Second Coming of Christ.

I believe that the description in verse 31 is the "catching up" of saints.


The Wrath of God must occur after these things because:

~ Since Jesus is the One who "dishes out" the Wrath of God -- He is "already here" when the vials start being poured out.

( i.e. - the return of Christ is BEFORE the Wrath of God )

~ Since Jesus is the One who all of the armies gather against at Armageddon -- He is "already here" when the armies begin to assemble.

Jesus does not 'return' at the battle of Armageddon. Jesus returns before the Wrath of God is "poured out"; He is the One doing it:


2 Thessalonians 1:

[SUP]7[/SUP] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [SUP]8[/SUP] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: [SUP]9[/SUP] Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Revelation 19:

[SUP]11[/SUP] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [SUP]12[/SUP] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. [SUP]13[/SUP] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. [SUP]14[/SUP] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. [SUP]15[/SUP] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. [SUP]16[/SUP] And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.


Before the armies even begin to gather at Armageddon, vials 1-6 ( of the Wrath of God ) have been "poured out"...

Yes that is right, and sorry if I made it sound as though I thought God's wrath comes before the Lord's return.
For I do not believe that way, as I do believe in the Lord coming back first after the 3 1/2 years of the man of sin persecuting and killing Jews and Christians in the GT. This starts the battle of Armageddon and ushers in God's wrath judgments.

God's wrath can not happen before Armageddon because the reason the bible shows the Lord's return is to stop the man of sin from persecuting and killing Jews and Christians.


Plus the war mentioned in Revelation 20:8 is the Gog and Magog war, and not the battle of Armageddon !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Wrong, you are giving Baptism by the Spirit another definition than the one the Bible gives it. The first work of the Holy Spirit is to Baptize us into one body, the spiritual Body of Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NKJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

Romans 6:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

You are right that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what puts us in one body, and that being the body of believers in Jesus Christ.

However Romans 6:3 is not talking about Holy Spirit baptism.
It is speaking of water baptism that was commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19, and Mark 16:16, and confirmed by Apostle Peter in Acts 2:38, 10:47.
For we are buried with Him when we are immersed in His name in the water, then we rise a new creation in the Spirit.



The usage of blood and water in/for both covenants is required, and I can give scriptures from both the OT and NT that show this. Even Apostle Paul said those who came before from the old covenant were baptized in the cloud (Spirit) and the sea (water).........1 Corinthians 10:2

 

[VCO]

I think the Tribulation saints are included as guests to the feast, but they are not the Church and will not be part of the wedding.

Even the Jewish Weddings have Guests that are not the Bide.

Revelation 6:9-11 (ESV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain {Tribulation Saints} for the word of God and for the witness they had borne.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

They may arrive later than the Bride, but they do arrive and they are given the White Robes.

[video=youtube;HOVF9kv1afc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOVF9kv1afc[/video]

Matthew 22:8-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.'
[SUP]10 [/SUP] So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests.

Matthew 22:11-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'


Traditionally in Bibles time they all wore white robes to a wedding.

 

[VCO]

You are right that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what puts us in one body, and that being the body of believers in Jesus Christ.

However Romans 6:3 is not talking about Holy Spirit baptism.
It is speaking of water baptism that was commanded by Jesus in Matthew 28:19, and Mark 16:16, and confirmed by Apostle Peter in Acts 2:38, 10:47.
For we are buried with Him when we are immersed in His name in the water, then we rise a new creation in the Spirit.



The usage of blood and water in/for both covenants is required, and I can give scriptures from both the OT and NT that show this. Even Apostle Paul said those who came before from the old covenant were baptized in the cloud (Spirit) and the sea (water).........1 Corinthians 10:2

Correction: Spiritual Baptism into the BODY of CHRIST, happens the very moment we first Believe and is part of GRACE, while climbing into the Baptistry is frequently the first STEP in our CHRISTIAN WALK of Obedience.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



These are Christians ( Gentile believers) and not Jews, and we are told that they come out of the great tribulation.
Meaning that there is Gentile believers in and during the great tribulation period, and have not been brought up to the marriage and marriage supper yet. There is absolutely no teachings in the bible that give one set of believers favoritism over another group !!!

To say one group of believers are part of the marriage and another is not is placing favoritism, which God does not do........Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11

 

[kennethcadwell]

Correction: Spiritual Baptism into the BODY of CHRIST, happens the very moment we first Believe and is part of GRACE, while climbing into the Baptistry is frequently the first STEP in our CHRISTIAN WALK of Obedience.

That is not correct as the bible clearly shows in Acts that not all believers receive the Holy Spirit (Spiritual baptism) when they first believe.

Apostle Peter shows this in Acts 2:38, for those he is talking to there he tells them to repent and be water baptized first then they will receive the Holy Spirit. Peter puts repentance and water baptism before the receiving of the Holy Spirit in this verse to these believers.
These believers already established their belief after hearing the word of the gospel by Peter, but Peter then shows to receive the Holy Spirit they then needed to repent and be water baptized in Jesus name.

We can not take and place the Holy Spirit as received at minute one of belief for all believers, because the bible does not even show that standard. Some did receive the Spirit first, but others did not !!!!

 

[FancyNancy]

Revelation 7:9

After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;


Revelation 7:14

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.



These are Christians ( Gentile believers) and not Jews, and we are told that they come out of the great tribulation.
Meaning that there is Gentile believers in and during the great tribulation period, and have not been brought up to the marriage and marriage supper yet. There is absolutely no teachings in the bible that give one set of believers favoritism over another group !!!

To say one group of believers are part of the marriage and another is not is placing favoritism, which God does not do........Acts 10:34, Romans 2:11

Seeing as the marriage takes place during the time of the Tribulation on the earth, the ones that come out of it saved will be the guests at the wedding, and not part of the Bride. It has NOTHING to do with favouritism, but to do with the fact that all believers that come out of the Church Age (and of course all believers from the Old Covenant who had believe in their coming Messiah, and who received Him when He visited them in Paradise after His death) are the Bride of Christ. It's God's plan.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Seeing as the marriage takes place during the time of the Tribulation on the earth, the ones that come out of it saved will be the guests at the wedding, and not part of the Bride. It has NOTHING to do with favouritism, but to do with the fact that all believers that come out of the Church Age (and of course all believers from the Old Covenant who had believe in their coming Messiah, and who received Him when He visited them in Paradise after His death) are the Bride of Christ. It's God's plan.

You continue to reject the clear scriptures I have shown you from the bible.

Post #3130 I clearly showed you how the bible in Revelation 19 shows the both the Marriage of the Lamb (VS. 7) and the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (VS. 9) take place after the GT; Not before !!!

We know this is correct because Apostle Paul also shows the man of sin is revealed first before any of us are gathered to the Lord in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3, which I also posted in that same post......


If the man of sin is revealed first as Apostle Paul says, and we know by scripture this is done in the middle of the 7 year tribulation, then we can not be gathered to the Lord in the marriage(wedding) during the tribulation.

By continuing to say the gathering to the marriage happens before the tribulation denies scripture and calls Apostle Paul a liar. For he clearly says the man of sin is revealed first !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

Steps of Tribulation and end times; short version


1) Peace treaty signed (starts the 7 years)

2) Man of sin breaks the treaty after the first 3 1/2 (starts the Great Tribulation)

3) Jews and Christians persecuted and killed by the man of sin for the final 3 1/2 years

4) Jesus 2nd coming with the 144,000

5) Armageddon

6) First Resurrection (Gathering together of believers in Christ: Dead first then those still alive)

7) God's Wrath

8) 1,000 year millennial reign of Christ

9) Satan released after those 1,000 years

10) Gog and Magog war

11) Satan cased into lake of fire where the man of sin and false prophet are already at; Cast there by Jesus in the battle of Armageddon

12) Judgment