When does the rapture occur?

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Temple is violated
Sacrifices taken away
Abomination of Desolation set up

1,290 days pass:

Man of Sin declares to be God
M of S does miracles
Forces all to worship him or be killed

45 days later:

Christ returns???? Those Days are shortened for the sake of the Elect????
So who shall take away the Daily sacrifices?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Interesting way to look at this passage. Okay, if that's the correct way (and I'm always open to different ideas) what does come next???

The end of Masada doesn't fit. The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 also doesn't fit because once the temple was destroyed (which ended the sacrifices) there was no temple to set anything up in;).
You see the Aod diff...So it would be hard for you to see...
example: How long do you think you need to set up things?

Nothing from the Maccabees Revolt era that I'm aware fits 1,290 days after the Sacrifices are halted and the AofD is set up. Let's assume it's future. What is happening during this war of Dan 11? Here's the start (according to Gary)
there more than 1290 days after AD70

31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
Daniel 11:31 - during Antiochus
Daniel 12 - during the Roman siege


What's the next major thing? There are some back and forth things happening, good and bad people fighting and carrying out exploits, etc. Then we come to this.

36 "Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.

Is this it? Is it 1,290 days until the Man of Sin declares himself to be God???

4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

What happens when this "person" declares himself to be God?? He doesn't just declare it, he proves it. He does these things...
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

which agrees with Rev 13:

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.

These great signs he uses to deceive...

14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast,

10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it.

24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

The question then becomes what happens to those who are deceived???
Revelation 13, still future...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Watcher,

Daniel 11:31 - during Antiochus
Why would Jesus be referring back in time 200 years in Mat 24:15??? Does this really makes sense to you? Do you often warn people of something and tell them to take action if the event was in the past?

I'm not sure how familiar you are with American History but it would be like me warning people that the British were coming (like Paul Revere did) today but I was talking about an event from 1775.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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Watcher,



Why would Jesus be referring back in time 200 years in Mat 24:15??? Does this really makes sense to you? Do you often warn people of something and tell them to take action is the event was in the past?

I'm not sure how familiar you are with American History but it would be like me warning people that the British were coming (like Paul Revere did) today but I was talking about an event from 1775.
Jesus was warning them about the AD70 siege...FUTURE
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Daniel 12 - during the Roman siege
Did Michael Stand up in AD 70?
Who was delivered in AD 70??
Was there a resurrection in AD 70?
Did the wise shine like the brightness of the firmament in AD 70?
Did those who turned people to righteousness shine like stars forever and ever in AD 70?
Did people run to and fro and did knowledge increase in AD 70?
Was the time of the end AD 70?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
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Watcher,

According to you, Jesus was warning of events of AD 67-73 in the below passage.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" ... 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... 21 For then there will be great tribulation.

You claim the AofD was in 167 BC. So why would Jesus command those in Judea to flee an event that was 200 years old???

You claim the Great Tribulation was the Roman Seize and subsequent scattering and killing of the Jews from AD 67-73. That makes sense if there was no AofD mentioned. We already established that there was no AofD spoken of by Daniel in AD 70. There was only a burning of the temple. Nothing was set up there - because it was burned.

Jesus could not have invoked Dan 11:31 if it was in the past to Him, correct??? So which passage in Daniel was Jesus invoking??? 9:27??
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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You see the Aod diff...So it would be hard for you to see...
example: How long do you think you need to set up things?



there more than 1290 days after AD70



Daniel 11:31 - during Antiochus
Daniel 12 - during the Roman siege




Revelation 13, still future...
You agree that Rev 13 is future??? If so, let's start with this.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
You claim the AofD was in 167 BC. So why would Jesus command those in Judea to flee an event that was 200 years old???
To help older folks, who move slowly in the morning?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
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Watcher,

According to you, Jesus was warning of events of AD 67-73 in the below passage.

15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" ... 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains... 21 For then there will be great tribulation.

You claim the AofD was in 167 BC. So why would Jesus command those in Judea to flee an event that was 200 years old???

You claim the Great Tribulation was the Roman Seize and subsequent scattering and killing of the Jews from AD 67-73. That makes sense if there was no AofD mentioned. We already established that there was no AofD spoken of by Daniel in AD 70. There was only a burning of the temple. Nothing was set up there - because it was burned.

Jesus could not have invoked Dan 11:31 if it was in the past to Him, correct??? So which passage in Daniel was Jesus invoking??? 9:27??
you have to understand...
there was taking of daily sacrifices and Aod During the reign of Antiochus IV...(Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 8)

regarding Matthew 24,
Remember one of the question is when will be the destruction of the temple:VS. 1-3

Which of the sign pertain to the destruction of the temple?
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
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Did Michael Stand up in AD 70?
Can you see Michael? The fact that some of the Jews were delivered.

Who was delivered in AD 70??
The Jews who were not killed...

Was there a resurrection in AD 70?
the time of trouble is not the same time as the resurrection
Did the wise shine like the brightness of the firmament in AD 70?
Did those who turned people to righteousness shine like stars forever and ever in AD 70?
You are mixing prophecies
Did people run to and fro and did knowledge increase in AD 70?
There was no mobile phone during Daniel...ever since then, knowledge grow exponentially
Was the time of the end AD 70?
It was part of the last days, as peter quoted Joel during Pentecost. saying it was the last days.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
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There are so many good arguments for your choice. I'll put it to you this way. Jesus said only the Father knows when. I accept that. Our responsibility is to be ready when it happens, because it will happen in an instant, and it will happen only once.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
63
you have to understand...
there was taking of daily sacrifices and Aod During the reign of Antiochus IV...(Daniel 11:31 and Daniel 8)

regarding Matthew 24,
Remember one of the question is when will be the destruction of the temple:VS. 1-3

Which of the sign pertain to the destruction of the temple?
The first question in Mat 24 pertained to the temple. It was also the first thing Jesus answered. Correct?? He tells about the temple in verse 2.

Ok, the temple was destroyed in AD 70. No dispute on that.

Now why would Jesus go back in time in verse 15 to the year 167 BC and mention the A of D and warn people to flee???????? You aren't answering this.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
7,080
151
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who is the king of the north? Is he the Man of Sin or the Antichrist?
I don't like the term, "AntiChrist." I only use it because so many people only know him by this term. He is better described as the AntiGod.

Paul calls him, "the Man of Sin," "the Son of Perdition"

Daniel calls him, "the King of the North"

John calls him, "the Beast coming up out of the Earth"

Whatever you want to call him, he hasn't come yet. He is in the future.