Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?

[Bookends]

Answer: Ecclesiastes 3:11

He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

Oh thank U Brother,


I had this same discussion in the Bible Study Room..and i kid u not...all were against me when i brought up the scriptures about the "Dead Knows Not Anything"....i kinda felt like Paul in the court of law having to give an answer for my faith..all were against....sadly to say..many Christians world wide believe in the lie that Satan told Eve...I was so shocked...I wanted to run away because I felt so pressed by all..but God helped me to stand my ground...This is serious hand to hand combat with the enemy of souls....we must remain in our armor of God...even if a thousand or 10 thousand fall next to us..nothing will come nigh us....What a wonderful promise of God for His faithful servants.

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

So you are saying that people have died gone to heaven lived with God for thousands of years without a body and all of a sudden cant live without a body? That in contradictory. Where in the Bible does it say all that? That people in heaven are not complete? It is all based on opinion.

it isn't that they cannot live without a body all of a sudden...

along with the resurrection God creates a new heaven and new earth...with everything restored to its original created perfection...and since humans were designed to have bodies in the original perfect creation...we will be given bodies at the resurrection...

in other words...we will need bodies in order to be the way God designed us to be...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

So do you accept or reject the fact that there was no punctuation in the original? Do you accept the fact that the translatore put puncuation in?

there is no punctuation in the original...the punctuation has to be supplied by the english translators...

and given the way jesus spoke at other times...it is -obvious- where the comma belongs...

jesus never began any other statement in scripture with 'verily i say to you today'...but many times he began a statement with 'verily i say to you'...

so the correctly punctuated english is...'verily i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise'...there is simply no basis for the 'alternate' punctuation scheme...

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

*[[1Co 15:53-54]] KJV* %v 53% For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. %v 54% So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

These texts are clear we are given immortality at the return of Christ not at death. To say we have an immortal concious souk after death is teaching against these clear Bible texts.

actually this text clearly shows that we have a soul that continues to exist after death...

if a person ceased to exist at death...they couldn't put on anything...nonexistent people don't put things on...

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

Amen Brother..Amen.

 

[Kerry]

Moses was seen by the disciples at the mount of transfiguration. He was not asleep.

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

Rachael,


Please read the bible in context..then u wont get little snap shots here and there..God says, here a little, there a little.line upon line..precept upon precept.....God simply says..Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ..and U shall b saved..which means..the world of God is of no personal interpetation says the Lord...God says, My people r destroyed for a lack of knowledge.,,and pray for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Laodicea]

actually this text clearly shows that we have a soul that continues to exist after death...

if a person ceased to exist at death...they couldn't put on anything...nonexistent people don't put things on...

You are limiting the power of God. The text clearly says at the last trump we receive immortality not death.
[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:51-55 (KJV)[SUP]
51 [/SUP]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[SUP]
52 [/SUP]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[SUP]
53 [/SUP]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[SUP]
54 [/SUP]So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.[SUP]
55 [/SUP]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?[/h]

 

[Laodicea]

Moses was seen by the disciples at the mount of transfiguration. He was not asleep.

[h=3]Jude 1:9[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Why did they dispute the body of Moses if he was going to heaven as a spirit?

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

Why was Moses not asleep Kerry...Cause God translated him after 3 days of being asleep..which God considers death a sleep which only God can wake...Jude 1:9

Also in Jude 1:17 and 18.......But beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own godly lusts.

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

Jude 1:9

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

Why did they dispute the body of Moses if he was going to heaven as a spirit?

If u can remember Laodi, when Moses when into Egypt to deliver the people...God told Aron that he will b like a prophet to Moses..and that Moses would b like a God unto his people the Isrealites....Here it was symbolic...and the 3 days that Moses was in the grave like Christ in the tomb for 3 days....here Satan thought he had Jesus and that He would not rise from the grave after 3 days.....and in Deuteronomy 34:1-7...where God tells Moses to go up to the mountain of Moab and showed him of things to come..but told him he wouldn't see the promise land on this earth..but God showed Moses the future of the people...afterwards, Moses died...verse 6 says, he was buried...but no one knows where the sepulchre unto this day.

 

[Dine_wit_Me]

That word "eternal" was translated from a word that meant "unquenchable," as in, nothing could put it out until everything was gone. Obviously Sodom and Gommorha are not still burning, unless in your imagination. That's what's important here. Yes, they represent an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal/unquenchable fire, the end result of which will be eternal. The very fact that these cities were entirely burnt up should be your proof right there. They are gone. Their punishment was eternal. They are ashes beneath our feet.

Hey Georgina....thank u sis for continuing to hold up the truth.

 

[homwardbound]

It is nice to see you being polite, and yes you did take the time to respond even though I do not agree. We must remember it is not our job to convince each other only God can convict. We can just present the truth as we see it then leave it to God. To answer 1 Cor 5:8 I will go to the start of the chapter.
2 Corinthians 5:1-2 KJV
(1) For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
(2) For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

These verses Paul is talking about the fact that we have house (body) in the heavens. We cannot go to heaven with the body we have now we need a glorified body as Christ had after the resurrection. The question is when do we receive the eternal house(body)
1 Corinthians 15:53-54 KJV(53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
(54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

According to these verses we are given an eternal house at the return of Christ. With that in mind let us read again the verse.
2 Corinthians 5:8 KJV
(8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

We cannot be present with the Lord in this corruptible body, we need a new body which we are given when Jesus returns.

Philippians 1:20-21 KJV
(20) According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.
(21) For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

According to the context it is about magnifying Christ so whether he lives or dies Christ shall be magnified. With all the martyrs Christ was magnified and more gave their life to Christ as a result.

This mortal shall put on immortality, hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!! to me that is here and now today. What is seen is only temporal, waht is not seen is eternal.
So how does one put on immortality?
Die to self here and now. How? By the cross the death od Christ have it by belief in Christ become, my death, your death, and anyone who beleives death death, and then one might begin to see what Paul said that he was crucified with Christ, and there is much more to it. Becuase after one agrees with God the Father to die to themselves via the death of Christ, then one can be raised to new life here and now by God the Father whom already raised Christ from the dead and then this mortal has put opn immoratality, that is what 1 cor 15 is talking about and death is swallowed up in victory to all that see this truth here today, made anew forever in the Spirit of God
[h=3]Romans 6:1-4[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Dead to Sin, Alive to God[/h]6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? [SUP]2 [/SUP]Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Without the resurrection we are to be pitied of all people, we are still dead in our sins, and dead is no life yet how are we saved and recieve new life it is by the resurrection of Christ for us to be made back alive from death to life in God's Spirit, Born again in what is eternal that can't be seen.
Galatians 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We are talking about living eternally in the Spirit of God not flesh for no flesh shall evr please God, Flesh is dead acting as if it ain't when it is ever since Adam and Eve fell, theSpirit of God died in them and they became what they thought was life in the flesh and then begin their stressed out days passed on to all mankind, and Christ came to turn this around by the cross and did, just not all yet see this truth, a lot are on their way to see the whole and nothing but the truth and many are deceivers along the way taking away the power at the full cross, especially the resurrection part, and this life and the people all stressed out over trying to do what is right. When Christ by himself being totally trusting to Father purged the entire floor and cleansed all from the disease of sin that caused death in the Spirit, unconnected to the living God. Today restored by the resurrection, if one will only first finalize that they are forgiven by God through Christ, and then God will show them their new life in him by this resurrection and then while are here today, we will be a new creation in God as was originally in the garden of Eden and can eat freely today from the tree of life (Chrsit Jesus)

 

[homwardbound]

God keeps the software so that when He returns we are given new hardware and He puts the software in. God can do all things. Even though we are dead and do not know anything when He returns and gives us new bodies, our thoughts continue from where they left off, just like sleeping. We will not notice any passing of time in death.

Read Acts 2 Peter said David is still in the grave he is not in heaven Even though David may be dead for 3000 years to him it will be but a moment.

Oh my, IMO,you are dead wrong and so be it to eachtheir own, my tent (body) is of no account and my Body does not house my thoughts. Thoughts are the Spiritual warfare and whatever thought one accepts is the result how one feels, and the body this unredeened body only feels, does not think for itself
1 Corinthians 3:1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

And God is trying to speak to us not by caranl, but by the resurrected Christ, where we have life everlasting. There is no death in life of God not anymore for those that puyt their Faith oin Christ's finshed work at the cross.

 

[homwardbound]

When you are sleeping and you suddenly awake, usually, we are disoriented and the first thing many of us do, is look to see what time it is. So it is with death.

When we die, we don't know how long we are dead. Dead people have no conception of time passed. Even if you have been dead for 4000 years,, you have no clue you have been dead that long.

So, while living, paul says Christ is living through him. And when Paul dies, the very next thing that he will know, is that he is with Jesus! The time between our deaths and our ressurection will only seem as if it is a "moment". Because, the "dead know not anything".

Hope this helps.

So how does this tie in with Christ came to give us life here and today and more abundantly, and this is not talking aobut properity ny no means John10:10
The thief came to steal, kill and destroy, and this is what you are saying using we will not notice, GOD MY FRIEND notices and since God came to give us life, ther wuill and is no death in the Spirit of God. Our old Bodies mean nothing, absolutely nothinig and can stay dead, our bodies that are unredeemed are nothiing more that a temporary tent that we are stuck in while here on earth, that we can't redeem. Therefore we can consider it dead so we can be alive to God forevermore in the Spirit of God via by the cross
[h=3]Romans 6:11[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[h=3]Romans 5:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Life is the Spirit, the Spirit of God the Father of Christ, and this Spirit Love of God goes on forever.and those that are in him live forever too with God. Death is swallowed up in victory,(death of our body) unfortuantely you are only seeing things from the flesh perspective, and all flesh perishes and no flesh can please God. So I am greatful to God for killing my Flesh by the death of Christ his son that did this not only for me yet for all that will beleive God. Then comes the resurrection, if only we will die to self at the cross in our dead flesh Spirits and then we can come to new life that he came to give us only found in the resurrection, where all riches and glory of God are found

 

[homwardbound]

According to Matthew 24 and other verses people are carried by angels to Christ at the second coming of Christ for Matthew 24 says He shall send forth His angels to gather His elect.

We get new redeemed bodies and that is all folks!!!!!!!!!!!!! just waht I see

 

[homwardbound]

So in the parable where the beggar is carried by angels that is the second coming and even if it were real and not a patable then Jesus is looking forward to the future.

So Abraham's bosom then is still ineffect and even King David can't do waht he said he will be able to do which is psalm 100:4 entering his Courts with thanks giving and praise.
And yes in that scripture he was talkiing about future waht
For it ends with the resurrection of himself
And whether anyone beleives or not saying that they did not believe even though one rose from the grave, Christ the first fruits and when he gave up the Ghost graves wewre reported and bein opened and the dead came out from, The resurrection is where Life is at. we are in a new covenant, under new laws, the laws of LOVE God's type 1 cor 13. And under a new priesthood in the order of Melchizadek which goes all the way back to the Faith of Abraham before any Law was ever put in place. And there was no law for 430 years after the promise was made to Abraham. Death remained from Adam through Moses all the way until the resurrection of Christ, and this is for all that will believe no more death, not in the Spirit of God anyway ever, flesh yes must die becasue all sin has been condemned to flesh, Human flesh and blood
[h=3]Romans 8:3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh

So our free choice believe we are dead to flesh (sin) here and now and be alive here and now in God by Christ through the resurrection of christ or just stay dead since all flesh really is dead trying to be alive and all stressed out trying to make it here in this world and just truthfully can't ever, it can only fake it leading others into a ditch being blind to the new life offered by the resurrection of christ in the Spirit of God.

 

[homwardbound]

If people are already in heaven after they die then why is there going to be a resurrection when Jesus returns?

Iam already alive in Christ by the resurrection of Christ and serve God in God's true taberancle that God pitched not man. I am no longer a citizen of this earth, I am and all believers are made citizens of heaven by Christ at the resurrection. This is God's viewpoint after Christ redeemed all mankind by the cross, but noit all have come to new life, because the death of Christ does not bring new life, the death takes and took care of the penalty of sin, which was death. Now it is the resurrection that gives the new life that mankind is in need of, and this new life is forever here today to stay.
Again when Christ is comiing back christ is bringing the Tabernacle with him, for God and allthe Saints serve God in the Spirit of God and are alive with God whether here on earth or there in Heaven
Now when God (Christ) is coming back bringing with him the true taberancle that God the Father built not man, a new Earth is begining he then is establi8shing his Kingdom here on the new earth, for the new Heaven has already been established by his death and resurrection and Satan and his cohorts have not been able to enter there ever since.
[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:
For now this earth and all its earthly sanctuaries are null and void and are only flesh worship rewarding one another, when God today can only be worshipped in Spirit and truth
John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

[homwardbound]

About the Thief on a cross next to Jesus:

Scripture is indeed inspired, but not Punctuation. The scripture in question is Luke 23:43.

Notice the "comma" between the words "you" and "today'. Here we see just how powerful a comma can be! In this instance it seems to be powerful enough to give life at death. At that is not the case.

This is wrong> "Verily, I say to you , TODAY you will be with Me in Paradise."

This is correct> "Verily, I say to you TODAY, you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Now we know that Jesus didn't ascend to His Father the day He died. After He was raised He said to mary,, "Do not cling to Me, I have not yet ascended to My Father, but go to My Brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My father and to your Father and to My God and to your God."

Christs kingdom is set up at His second Coming. (Matthew 25:11). All the rightous of all the ages will enter it at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) and not at death.

There is a splitting of hairs my brother, he was now raised back to life in the flesh his perfect flesh, his perfected body had to go and put the blood from it on the tabernacle in heaven
Now his perfect body had to be in the ground dead, (not his Spirit) for three days as proof of his death, which ratified our new covenant, but he still had to place the blood of himself over the Mercy seat in Heaven, that is why he said what he said to Mary

New Covenant my Brother
[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

What is this new Covenant?

[h=3]Hebrews 10:17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP]And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Why is that did Christ really take away the sin of the world, John the Babtist was the witness that this is what he came to do


[h=3]John 1:29[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]29 [/SUP]The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

Now either Christ did this or he did not? your choice is either to beleive God or not and your choice is free, no law is included in here to do becasue
Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

We also are not under the old Priesthood we are in a new one

Hebrews 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

After the cross my brother all things changed form old to new, the old Covenant that is, yet the same promise stayed in effect from Abraham on and that is why in the order of Melchizadek a priest forever and not in the Levitcal Priesthood. You know and Christ was not from the levite tribe, Christ was from the tribe of Judah
Take a look into a Kaleidoscope and just turn it to the resurrection of Christ and see life here and now forever in the Spirit of Christ and forsake your own body in the process and recieve the life that he came to give us, while the enemy the flesh is out to steal, kill and destroy, and Christ said this the verse below before he went to the cross, so after the cross, the resurrection is the fulfillment of the verse below, and this is not speaking about having riches here on this earth or anything of that sort, Christ was speaking of us being born again in his Spirit of being 100% dependant on God the Father just as he was and is. That is waht the abundant life is
John 10:10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly