Where did the idea that the soul is immortal originate?

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danschance

Guest
#481
#481
Shiloah said:
1 Samuel 12: 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spoke to Saul, saying, Why have you deceived me? for you are Saul. 13 And the king said to her, Be not afraid: for what saw you?And the woman said to Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.14And he said to her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man comes up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.…


The writer did NOT say it was Samuel, the writer said the witch of Endor said she saw gods ascending out of the earth, and then, an old man comes up; and he is covered with a mantle... and then, it says that Saul PERCEIVED that it was Samuel. Saul interpreted what this woman saw to be Samuel, who came up out of the earth.
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First off, your scriptural reference is wrong. You said it was 1 Samuel 12:12 but it is actually in chapter 28, not 12. Not a big deal, I know it was a simple mistake.

Secondly, she said she saw "elohim" coming out of the earth. The word elohim can be applied to God, gods, angels and to distinguished men, such as judges. Elohim may also be applied to a disembodied spirit. Keep in mind Samuel was a judge. When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water they cried out "It is His angel" because the jews called a ghost an angel. Today we only refer to angels as God's creatures who live in Heaven and have no sinned.

So your claim that she did not say it was Samuel, does not prove anything. She is simply saying she sees a spirit coming towards her. SHe does not identify it as anyone, but later Saul identifies it as Samuel and the spirit sure acts like Samuel. I can only conclude it was Samuel or a evil spirit claiming to be Samuel. Nothing more or less can be proved otherwise from this passage.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#482
#482
danschance said:
First off, your scriptural reference is wrong. You said it was 1 Samuel 12:12 but it is actually in chapter 28, not 12. Not a big deal, I know it was a simple mistake.

Secondly, she said she saw "elohim" coming out of the earth. The word elohim can be applied to God, gods, angels and to distinguished men, such as judges. Keep in mind Samuel was a judge. When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water they cried out "It is His angel" because the jews called a ghost an angel. Today we only refer to angels as God's creatures who live in Heaven and have no sinned.

So your claim that she did not say it was Samuel, does not prove anything. She is simply saying she sees a spirit coming towards her. SHe does not identify it as anyone, but later Saul identifies it as Samuel and the spirit sure acts like Samuel. I can only conclude it was Samuel or a evil spirit claiming to be Samuel. Nothing more or less can be proved otherwise from this passage.
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You're basing your argument on my typo? Sorry, chapter 28. Oh, by the way, she said she saw divinities coming up out of the ground. K?
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#483
#483
Shiloah said:
You're basing your argument on my typo? Sorry, chapter 28. Oh, by the way, she said she saw divinities coming up out of the ground. K?
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If you will look closely, it says Saul determined from her description that is was Samuel. There was no way in this world he could have seen that himself. He had to base that belief on her description.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#484
#484
Shiloah said:
Because he said those things that makes him Samuel? Him saying this doesn't prove he's Samuel.
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no, The writer who inspired by God said it was samuel does.

But if you do not want to believe this, that is fine.

I quoted those verses. These don't have anything to do with whether or not this is Samuel, and that's why I didn't quote them. They came after the others I quoted. The point was, which you obviously missed entirely, is that woman didn't recognize this person as Samuel, and Saul never saw this person.
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Did Paul recognize or see Jesus when he spoke? just because they did not see anything does not prove a thing!!

The writer said, Samuel said. He did not say, the spirit said, If the writer, who is inspired by God, wanted us to know this was a spirit. he would have said, THE SPIRIT SAID.

He did not, He said in plain language,

And samuel said

Why did you disturb me

God spoke through me

Tomorrow you will be with me

All those things not only were true, but happened exactly as it was said would happen.

You don;t pick and chose things which only support your own view, you MUST look at the WHOLE THING

Satan speaks in half lies and half truths.
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Yet another proof. This samuel spoke ALL truth, Everything he said happened. There was no half truths.. Which is what I have been trying to show you both.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#485
#485
danschance said:
First off, your scriptural reference is wrong. You said it was 1 Samuel 12:12 but it is actually in chapter 28, not 12. Not a big deal, I know it was a simple mistake.

Secondly, she said she saw "elohim" coming out of the earth. The word elohim can be applied to God, gods, angels and to distinguished men, such as judges. Elohim may also be applied to a disembodied spirit. Keep in mind Samuel was a judge. When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water they cried out "It is His angel" because the jews called a ghost an angel. Today we only refer to angels as God's creatures who live in Heaven and have no sinned.

So your claim that she did not say it was Samuel, does not prove anything. She is simply saying she sees a spirit coming towards her. SHe does not identify it as anyone, but later Saul identifies it as Samuel and the spirit sure acts like Samuel. I can only conclude it was Samuel or a evil spirit claiming to be Samuel. Nothing more or less can be proved otherwise from this passage.
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I don't know what translation you read, but mine uses the word ghost or I've seen spirit use in scripture where the disciples saw Jesus and thought he was a ghost. I've seen in no translation the word angel used. What's this got to do with anything? In my quote, she said she saw gods coming up out the ground--- hence? Elohim?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#486
#486
danschance said:
First off, your scriptural reference is wrong. You said it was 1 Samuel 12:12 but it is actually in chapter 28, not 12. Not a big deal, I know it was a simple mistake.

Secondly, she said she saw "elohim" coming out of the earth. The word elohim can be applied to God, gods, angels and to distinguished men, such as judges. Elohim may also be applied to a disembodied spirit. Keep in mind Samuel was a judge. When the disciples saw Jesus walking on the water they cried out "It is His angel" because the jews called a ghost an angel. Today we only refer to angels as God's creatures who live in Heaven and have no sinned.

So your claim that she did not say it was Samuel, does not prove anything. She is simply saying she sees a spirit coming towards her. SHe does not identify it as anyone, but later Saul identifies it as Samuel and the spirit sure acts like Samuel. I can only conclude it was Samuel or a evil spirit claiming to be Samuel. Nothing more or less can be proved otherwise from this passage.
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take with with the fact the writter did nto say saul said it was samuel. and he said, Or that the woman said it was samuel, and this is what he said. The writer said clearly. "and samuel said"

the writer of the passage himself identifies him as samuel.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#487
#487
eternally-gratefull said:
no, The writer who inspired by God said it was samuel does.

But if you do not want to believe this, that is fine.




Did Paul recognize or see Jesus when he spoke? just because they did not see anything does not prove a thing!!

The writer said, Samuel said. He did not say, the spirit said, If the writer, who is inspired by God, wanted us to know this was a spirit. he would have said, THE SPIRIT SAID.

He did not, He said in plain language,

And samuel said

Why did you disturb me

God spoke through me

Tomorrow you will be with me

All those things not only were true, but happened exactly as it was said would happen.

You don;t pick and chose things which only support your own view, you MUST look at the WHOLE THING



Yet another proof. This samuel spoke ALL truth, Everything he said happened. There was no half truths.. Which is what I have been trying to show you both.
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I guess you believe anything you hear if some of it's true. You do not know that that was Samuel. Because he said things that came true did not make him Samuel.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#488
#488
eternally-gratefull said:

take with with the fact the writter did nto say saul said it was samuel. and he said, Or that the woman said it was samuel, and this is what he said. The writer said clearly. "and samuel said"

the writer of the passage himself identifies him as samuel.
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Only in the NIV does it say that Saul decided it was Samuel. Here's yet another argument that is a waste of time. You'd think I'd learn.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#489
#489
Shiloah said:
You're basing your argument on my typo? Sorry, chapter 28. Oh, by the way, she said she saw divinities coming up out of the ground. K?
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Your using the english translation some translator used.

the hebrew word as was shown is elohime.

430. אֱלֹהִים ʾĕlôhîym, el-o-heem´; plur. of 433; gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur. thus, esp. with the art.) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:—angels, × exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), × (very) great, judges, × mighty.

Strong, J. (2009). Vol. 2: A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (12). Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#490
#490
Shiloah said:
If you will look closely, it says Saul determined from her description that is was Samuel. There was no way in this world he could have seen that himself. He had to base that belief on her description.
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Non of this matters, Saul did not write the passage, Nor did Saul in this passage say, Samuel said this to me.

the author of the passage said, Samuel said" this should be enough for you
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#491
#491
Shiloah said:
I guess you believe anything you hear if some of it's true. You do not know that that was Samuel. Because he said things that came true did not make him Samuel.
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1. I did not say it was samuel. The author of the passage did, he was inspired by God
2. Satan CAN NOT PROPHESY. Only God can, That is what he uses to prove he IS GOD
3. Samuel said, God spoke through me, Your kingdom is taken. Samuel was being the prophet passing a message to saul. The message WAS FROM GOD, and it came 100 % true.

No demon can do this,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#492
#492
Shiloah said:
Only in the NIV does it say that Saul decided it was Samuel. Here's yet another argument that is a waste of time. You'd think I'd learn.
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lol.. what does that have to do with anything?

Saul did not say it was samuel. THE AUTHOR DID. so why did you bring up the NIV

vs 15 says,

NOW SAMUEL SAID TO SAUL..

this are the authors words. NOT MINE
 
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danschance

Guest
#493
#493
Shiloah said:
Satan speaks in half lies and half truths. You base all your reasoning on what has been shown to be a parable and ignore entirely every other scripture that proves your theory entirely invalid.
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You are speaking a half truth, even if you don't believe it. The story of Lazuras and the rich man are not identified in scipture as a parable. Nor can it be proven that it is a parable. The simple fact is that Jesus never identified a person by name in any parable tells me that this is a real story, not a parable.

However, if you think Michael is not mocking people and his argument is excellent, then obviously you do not even see reality as others see it. So maybe you see the story of the witch of endor as a parable about the willy wonka factory?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#494
#494
danschance said:
You are speaking a half truth, even if you don't believe it. The story of Lazuras and the rich man are not identified in scipture as a parable. Nor can it be proven that it is a parable. The simple fact is that Jesus never identified a person by name in any parable tells me that this is a real story, not a parable.

However, if you think Michael is not mocking people and his argument is excellent, then obviously you do not even see reality as others see it. So maybe you see the story of the witch of endor as a parable about the willy wonka factory?
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I understand your frustrations. At times I want to laugh, other times I was to scream. But i pray we can do this civilized.
 
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danschance

Guest
#495
#495
eternally-gratefull said:
I understand your frustrations. At times I want to laugh, other times I was to scream. But i pray we can do this civilized.
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It is always frustrating when you have to deal with a cult mind set. If they agree with you it means there cult is wrong. That would be about the same to them as the Earth rotating around the moon and not the sun for us.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#496
#496
danschance said:
It is always frustrating when you have to deal with a cult mind set. If they agree with you it means there calt doctrine is wrong. That would about the same to them as the Earth rotating around the moon and not the sun.
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lol, I am sure the whole world believed this at one time.
 
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Michael50

Banned
#497
May 24, 2013
682
10
0
#497
eternally-gratefull said:
1. You assume the witch summoned the spirit, and God did not send the spirit to show a lesson, to saul and us. (it most likely affected the witch to, we are not told)
2. as for its name, It was called samuel, even the writter called it samuel, and since it is inspired by God. God said it was samuel. there is a reason for this.
3. where did it come from? Paradise. the resting place of those awaiting the ressurection. where the thief on the cross went the moment he died :today you will be with me in paradise"
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Hear ye! hear ye! May all know that Eternally-gratefull believes King Saul, the enemy of God, is with Samuel in Paradise awaiting his Crown of Righteousness!!!!! Cause Samuel said,,, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me."

Paradise eh? King Saul is in paradise awaiting to hear the words,, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the Joy of the Lord." lololol


I rest my case,,, any questions, refer to post # 472.... Your Post # 471 is all telling,,, You without doubt have placed King Saul in paradise,, awaiting His Crown of righteousness..... lol What a day!
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#498
#498
eternally-gratefull said:

take with with the fact the writter did nto say saul said it was samuel. and he said, Or that the woman said it was samuel, and this is what he said. The writer said clearly. "and samuel said"

the writer of the passage himself identifies him as samuel.
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You obviously need to go and read through all the translations. Only one suggests that the writer calls the figure Samuel. All the others say what Saul says when he addresses Samuel because he believes it's Samuel.
 
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Shiloah

Guest
#499
#499
Michael50 said:
Hear ye! hear ye! May all know that Eternally-gratefull believes King Saul, the enemy of God, is with Samuel in Paradise awaiting his Crown of Righteousness!!!!! Cause Samuel said,,, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me."

Paradise eh? King Saul is in paradise awaiting to hear the words,, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the Joy of the Lord." lololol


I rest my case,,, any questions, refer to post # 472.... Your Post # 471 is all telling,,, You without doubt have placed King Saul in paradise,, awaiting His Crown of righteousness..... lol What a day!
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Oh my goodness. That's true. Even if Samuel came out of Abraham's bosom, Saul would be in hell by these people's standards; he would not have been with Samuel!! Yeah! Okay then. :rolleyes:
 
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danschance

Guest
#500
#500
Michael50 said:
Hear ye! hear ye! May all know that Eternally-gratefull believes King Saul, the enemy of God, is with Samuel in Paradise awaiting his Crown of Righteousness!!!!! Cause Samuel said,,, "Tomorrow you and your sons will be with me."

Paradise eh? King Saul is in paradise awaiting to hear the words,, "Well done good and faithful servant, enter into the Joy of the Lord." lololol


I rest my case,,, any questions, refer to post # 472.... Your Post # 471 is all telling,,, You without doubt have placed King Saul in paradise,, awaiting His Crown of righteousness..... lol What a day!
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It is fun and easy! Just twist what others say so it sounds real dumb!!! WOW, anyone can do it!!!

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Spinner sold separately. Batteries not included. We are not held responsible for liable lawsuits, slander lawsuits, loss of reputation or death threats. that may result.
 
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