Where does the justification for The New Testament doers of the law in Romans 2:13 originate from?

[achduke7]

You quote it, but you clearly don't grasp the implications. Perhaps you need to meditate on Paul's message.

Paul explains it well enough and God spoke it plainly. He will give us his

Not true. Circumcision was part of the law, and failing in one point of the law means you have failed the whole of the law.

From Hebrews 10:1, 4, and 1 Corinthians 5:7

God did not require circumcision from the Israelites during exodus until they walked into the promised land. Was that breaking the law?

 

[Magenta]

God did not circumcise the Israelites during exodus until they walked into the promised land. Was that breaking the law?

Are you really asking me if God broke the law?

 

[achduke7]

Are you really asking me if God broke the law?

Of course not. That is the point. God does not break the law. It is our understanding that is flawed. Paul said Circumcision is profitable if we follow the law. If we have the Spirit then we are following the law but at that point we are saved. We did not get circumcised to get saved. We were already saved.

 

[Magenta]

Of course not. That is the point. God does not break the law. It is our understanding that is flawed.

Speak for yourself.

 

[Dino246]

Paul explains it well enough and God spoke it plainly. He will give us his

Do you want to finish your sentence before I respond further?

 

[Soyeong]

God's law is part of God's word, but there is more to the scriptures than the law.

Agreed.

Therefore, since Christ is the only one who completely, without sin, obeyed the law, Christ is the Just one. Through the faith of Christ the believer is justified without works. Read again...for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our justification as the result of our obedience to God's law, Paul also said in Romans 2:13 that only doers of the law will be justified, so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are justified also upholds God's law (Romans 3:31).

 

[Soyeong]

I read in the Prophets God would abolish the law of Moses and make a new covenant. Why are you trying to re-establish the law God abolished. You are a rebel.

Please quote where the prophets said that God would abolish the Law of Moses. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our mind and writing it on our hearts, and in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it involves God taking away our hearts of stone, giving us hearts of flesh, and sending His Spirit to lead us to obey the Mosaic Law. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the Mosaic Law and warned against relaxing the least part of it, and in Romans 3:31, Paul confirmed that our faith does not abolish the Mosaic Law, but rather our faith upholds it. Instructions for how to act in accordance with God's nature can't be abolished without first abolishing God, so I am not trying to establish the law that God abolished it, but rather God never abolished it.

we do by the grace of God over and above what the law commands

If that were the case, then you should think that at the very least we should obey the Mosaic Law plus whatever else is over and above it.

If God tells you to play funerals you play funerals, if He tell you to play weddings you play weddings.
If you play funerals when God says play weddings you are a rebel.

God has commanded the Mosaic Law, so my position is that we should obey what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, while your position is that we should rebel against what God has commanded.

the law of Moses was/is not eternal. Abraham was not under the law of Moses.

All of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). The Bible repeatedly describes the Mosaic Law as being instructions for how to walk in God's way, such as in Isaiah 2:2-3, Joshua 22:5, Isaiah 2:2-3, 1 Kings 2:1-3, Psalms 103:7, Psalms 119:1-3, and many others, and in Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children to walk in God's way by doing righteousness and justice that the Lord may bring to him all that He has promised, so Abraham was under the Law of Moses.

Jesus came to fulfil the law.

The law is fulfilled. The fulfilment of the law is death, the soul that sinneth it shall die. So Jesus died thus fulfilling the law.

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known through the law) to be obeyed as it should be (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo), so Jesus fulfilled the law by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it as it should be. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20).

The law has lost it's jurisdiction over those who believe in Christ.

Christ walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. The Mosaic Law is God's word and Christ is God's word made flesh, so the way to believe in Christ is by obeying the Mosaic Law, not by refusing to obey it.

 

[Soyeong]

Mark 7:19

There is no "thus he declared" in the Greek, but even if that translation were correct, it wouldn't be saying that we can eat unclean animals. The things that count as food vary from culture to culture, so we should consider the people to speaking about what they considered to be food rather than insert the things that we consider to be food. For example, it would be incorrect for a cannibal to interpret Mark 7:19 as saying that human flesh is good to eat. Jews did not even raise pigs, so the thought of eating pork would not have even cross their minds. In Mark 7, the topic of discussion was whether we can become common by eating bread with unwashed hands, so they weren't even speaking about eating animals. In Mark 7:1-13, Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees as being a hypocrite for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so Jesus should not be interpreted as turning around and even more hypocritically setting aide the commands of God. In Matthew 15:20, Jesus ended the conversation by affirming that we are not made common by eating with unwashed hands, so he never jumped topics from speaking about a tradition of the elders to teaching us to rebel against what God has commanded.

The context to that reply was "perfectly." No one can, or will ever follow the law perfectly.

The only reason someone would be required to keep the law perfectly would be if they were going to give themselves to pay for the penalty of our sins. The rest of us don't need perfect obedience because we can have our sins forgiven.

What must I do to be saved?

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

I was challenged by a pastor once. I was "grinding" out the Christian life(religious.) He said, try this for one month and see how it works out for ya. And I still apply it to this day! Because it works!

1. Drop your focus on your works, sin and what YOUR doing for God.(Just for 1 month,you can go back if you want to.)
2. Focus on the Son and what He has done for you.(eternal life,salvation,new creation,indwelling,grace,love,mercy,justification.....)
3. If you sin. As soon as you recognize it, name it and site to God. He is faithful and just to forgive you.(grieving the Spirit)
4. if your focus goes back to self. name it and site to God. He is faithful and just to forgive you.(quenching the Spirit.)
5. If you follow this plan(Gods plan) you will do all that the Lord wants from you.

We are filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit if we follow these truths. True fellowship.

One of the best parts for me though? We grow in His grace and knowledge at a pretty rapid pace if we are aware of how to stay in fellowship with Him.

In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so our focus on works is on what God is doing for us, not on what we are doing for God. Moreover, in Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished on the cross. In Matthew 19:17 and Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, so again that is what God is doing for us.

This is what my pastor challenged me on. Don't focus on what you are doing. Focus on what the Son did.

HE gave you the gift of the Spirit within you the moment you were saved.

HE will cause you to walk in His statutes........The doctrine of the filling/walking/fellowship in the Spirit.

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

And you will fulfill ALL that He wants from you.

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by God's law that we have knowledge of sin. in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contested with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

But if our motive is self/flesh, and doing them for our justification:

Gal 5:4~~You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace.

Gal 5:16~~But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message (Matthew 4:15-23), so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Furthermore, it would be absurd to interpret Psalms 119:29-30 in light as Galatians 5:4 as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace.

 

[achduke7]

Do you want to finish your sentence before I respond further?

Some how that misquote was sent to you. You can ignore it.

 

[Soyeong]

What is the result of following the Law?

Obeying God's law is not about earning a certain result, but about the gift of having a certain experience. The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work has nothing to do with earning the opportunity to drive it as the result. In a similar manner, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, which is Moses said in Exodus 33:13 that he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and why Jesus said in Matthew 7:23 that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.

You forgot to highlight the most important part: "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt..."

What you're saying is that only the place where the covenant is written is changed. No. Its very essence is different.

"they shall all know me"

This is understood as knowing the Lord intimately: His very being and nature. Previously he wrote "although I was an husband unto them". So this "knowing" is not knowledge, it is about being one flesh with God. How is this possible? Because His nature is put into all who are in Christ. Together the saints actually BECOME the body of Christ: His flesh and His bones. When you are in the Son and the Son is in you, you need no man to teach you about your Father. Why? Because the nature of the son IS the nature of the father. This is true in the natural as well as the spiritual.

In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so following the Mosaic Law is not one of the ways that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, especially because the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to know Him through acting in accordance with His nature.

You mean the Law of the Spirit of Life, right? The one that sets us free from the law at Sinai?

"For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set you free from the law of sin and death."

The law of the Spirit of life is the same law that was present before creation and it goes like this: God is our Father and we are His children. In us He put His Spirit. The Spirit testifies with our spirits that we are God's children and that we carry the nature of our Father inside of us.

This is like the natural agreement between a loving father and a newborn baby: nothing is written because it is the father's love for the child that secures his or her safety, joy, and fullness of life.

The law of sin and death was not the one given at Sinai. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God (which was given at Sinai) with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, he equated the the Law of the Spirit with the law that was given at Sinai. After all, the law given at Sinai was given by God and the Spirit is God and it wouldn't make sense to think that the Spirit has the role of freeing us from obeying the Father, but rather the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God, and in Romans 8:4-10, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to obey the Mosaic Law.

You mean like this:

The next day at about the sixth hour, as the men were approaching the city on their journey, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air. Then a voice said to him: “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”

“No, Lord!” Peter answered. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

The voice spoke to him a second time: “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

This happened three times, and all at once the sheet was taken back up into heaven.

Doesn't specifically mention swine but it does mention things that were impure or unclean under the law.

Now, God made them clean.

God didn't change His mind. Jesus fulfilled the law. God was showing Peter that that the law no longer governed his life.

And how did God get the word out to Peter? Not through a written scripture or another stone carving... God spoke to Peter's spirit. Spirit to spirit was made possible by Christ's indwelling Spirit in Peter.

Peter could have obeyed the Mosaic Law and God's command in his vision by simply killing and eating one of the clean animals, so the key to correctly understanding his vision is understanding why he refused to do what the Mosaic Law permitted him to do. It should be noted that Peter did not just object by saying that he had never eaten anything that was unclean, but also added that he had never eaten anything that was command and God did not rebuke Peter for his use of the word "unclean", but only rebuked him for his use of the word "common". In other words, Peter correctly identified the unclean animals as unclean and correctly knew that he was not being asked to eat them, but he incorrectly identified the clean animals as common and incorrectly declined to eat them in disobedience to God's command to kill and eat. Peter interpreted his vision three times as being in regard to incorrectly identifying Gentiles without saying a word about now being able to eat unclean animals, so his vision had nothing to do with a change in their status.

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon, so Jesus fulfill the law by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example, which has nothing to do with causing us to no longer be governed by it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as saying that bearing one another's burdens causes us to no longer be governed by the Law of Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am a doer of the law; The doers of the law shall be justified.

“I am a doer of the law; The doers of the law shall be justified.”

the apostle Paul

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you have ever told a lie , coveted something once…. it makes you a sinner a person who also broke “the law” that’s what it’s for to make sure everyone knows this part

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yet …. You’ve concluded that you keep the law and therefore are justified ?

Do you know what’s in the book of the law ? It is every command Moses gave to the children of Israel .

The idea that ten “don’t do this sin or that sin “ is Gods old law is just in informed

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.

There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think you have even read the book of the law read from exodus to Deuteronomy and find out what they were commanded to do by Moses the mediator and then you’ll know the law. I’m not sure you do the law like you think you do ….

then notice what it was for also

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s also where you’ll see this happen while Moses is upon the Mount receiving the commandments

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;

as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

….who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can read that whole story there in the Books of Moses law can see God set up the angelic ordination and leave them promising to later come and speak his own words through the messiah …..

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Set free from the law and married to the gospel

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we put our faith in Jesus and believe the gospel we’ll be saved brother Moses law is for people without the Holy Ghost who refused repeatedly to repent again and again god lamented them and those hard hearts and stiff necks as he refered to them

Read from exodus to the end of Deuteronomy then let’s talk about the law

God telling killers “ do not kill or you’ll be put to death “ ……isn’t what he has to say to his new born children he has much better things to teach them

 

[HumbleBee]

“I am a doer of the law; The doers of the law shall be justified.”

the apostle Paul

“For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭

“For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If you have ever told a lie , coveted something once…. it makes you a sinner a person who also broke “the law” that’s what it’s for to make sure everyone knows this part

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yet …. You’ve concluded that you keep the law and therefore are justified ?

Do you know what’s in the book of the law ? It is every command Moses gave to the children of Israel .

The idea that ten “don’t do this sin or that sin “ is Gods old law is just in informed

“And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law.

There was not a word of all that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel, with the women, and the little ones, and the strangers that were conversant among them.”
‭‭Joshua‬ ‭8:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I don’t think you have even read the book of the law read from exodus to Deuteronomy and find out what they were commanded to do by Moses the mediator and then you’ll know the law. I’m not sure you do the law like you think you do ….

then notice what it was for also

“And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, that Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s also where you’ll see this happen while Moses is upon the Mount receiving the commandments

“And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands. Then God turned, and gave them up to worship the host of heaven;

as it is written in the book of the prophets, O ye house of Israel, have ye offered to me slain beasts and sacrifices By the space of forty years in the wilderness? Yea, ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of your god Remphan, Figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.

….who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭7:41-43, 53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can read that whole story there in the Books of Moses law can see God set up the angelic ordination and leave them promising to later come and speak his own words through the messiah …..

“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Set free from the law and married to the gospel

“The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we put our faith in Jesus and believe the gospel we’ll be saved brother Moses law is for people without the Holy Ghost who refused repeatedly to repent again and again god lamented them and those hard hearts and stiff necks as he refered to them

Read from exodus to the end of Deuteronomy then let’s talk about the law

God telling killers “ do not kill or you’ll be put to death “ ……isn’t what he has to say to his new born children he has much better things to teach them

Romans 2:11-15
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For whosoever have sinned without the law, shall perish without the law; and whosoever have sinned in the law, shall be judged by the law. 13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: 15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Alrighty good luck you should probably my read Moses law then and remember this part as you learn the 600 plus commands

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‬ ‭

Unless what your saying is you keep your own version of Gods law and not what the book of the law They are all talking about says I mean that’s a different story of your keeping your version of gods law ….. but anyways I think ill move on and talk about Christianity

 

[Blik]

If we were a Jew living in Jesus's time, we would have a heritage of being taught that to obey the law was to be circumcised, to eat kosher, and say certain prayers as the law tells. Some Pharasees even strained their food to be sure they have ate a tiny bug that the law forbid. They did not understand that God is a spirit, and these laws were symbolism of the true laws of the Lord.

Christ came, not to say His Father was all wrong about the law, to to explain that the law was not flesh, although there were symbols of the law in flesh, but the law was of spirit and grace. This verse, and most of the NT teaches the same thing. Read Matthews chapter five, it explains it well.

 

[Soyeong]

“I am a doer of the law; The doers of the law shall be justified.”
the apostle Paul

Paul spoke about multiple different categories of law other than the Law of God, such as the law of sin and works of the law, so it is important to correctly identify which law he was referring to, otherwise you'll end up making the mistake of interpreting a servant of God as teaching us to rebel against Him. For example, in Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit with the law of sin and death, in Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, Paul contrasted a the Law of God that our faith upholds with the works of the law that are not of faith.

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to the Mosaic Law, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret those verses as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. Furthermore, in Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, this is what it means to be under grace, and it would be absurd to interpret that as if he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Paul's problem in Galatians was not with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Mosaic Law, but with those who were wanting to require Gentiles to obey their works of the law in order to become justified.

‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-12‭

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, the way to be blessed is by relying on the Mosaic Law while the way to be cursed is by not relying in, so Galatians 3:10 should not be interpreted as quoting from Deuteronomy 27-28 in order to support a point that is arguing against it by saying that relying on the Mosaic Law is the way to be cursed and not relying on it is the way to avoid being cursed. Rather, those who relied on works of the law were coming under the curse for not relying on the Mosaic Law because they were relying on works of the law instead.

In Galatians 3:10-12, Paul connected a quote from Habakkuk 2:4 that the righteous shall live by faith with a quote from Leviticus 18:5 that the one who obeys the Mosaic Law will live by it, so the righteous who are living by faith are the same as those who are living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. Furthermore, the context of Habakkuk 2:4 contrasts the righteous who are living by faith with those who are not living in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Mosaic Law, so the righteous living by faith does not refer to a manner of living that is not in obedience to it. God is trustworthy, therefore His law is also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust God is by obediently trusting in His instructions, it is contradictory to think that we should trust God, but not His instructions, and it to interpret that as saying that God's instructions are not of faith is to deny the faithfulness of God.

James‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬
If you have ever told a lie , coveted something once…. it makes you a sinner a person who also broke “the law” that’s what it’s for to make sure everyone knows this part
Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Yet …. You’ve concluded that you keep the law and therefore are justified ?

In James 2:1-11, he was speaking to people who had already sinned by showing favoritism, so he was not telling them that they needed to have perfect obedience because that would have already been too late, he was not telling them that now they won't be justified, and he was not discouraging them from obeying God's law, but rather he was encouraging them to repent and to obey God's law more consistently. The fact that we can repent after we have told a lie and still be justified demonstrates that we do not need to have perfect obedience. According to Romans 4:1-5, we can't earn our justification as a result of obeying God's law even through perfect obedience, so the reason we we do not earn our justification by obeying it is not because we fall short of perfect obedience, but because it was never given as a way of earning our justification in the first place, so that was never the goal the law, though it still remains true that only doers of the law will be justified.

‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:4‬ ‭KJV

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they did not attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as though righteousness were earned as a wage in order to establish their own instead of pursing the law as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, this faith references Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to obey, that the one who obeys it will attain life by it, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God rose him from the dead (Titus 2:14). So nothing in this passage has anything to do with ending any of God's laws, but just the opposite.

‬‬

‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Set free from the law and married to the gospel
1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:56‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Romans 7:7, Paul said that the Law of God is not sinful, but is how we know what sin is, and when our sin is revealed, then it leads us to repent and causes sin to decrease, however, the law of sin stirs up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, so it is sinful and causes sin to increase. So verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin, such as Romans 5:20, Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4-6, Galatians 2:19, Galatians 5:16, and 1 Corinthians 15:56. A law that is the strength of sin is a law that is sinful, so it can't be referring to the same law as Romans 7:7. Likewise, the Law of God is holy, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12), but a law that is the strength of sin is not. In Romans 7:22-23, Paul delighted in obeying the Law of God, but contrasted it with the law of sin that held him captive, which was causing him not to do the good of obeying the Law of God that he wanted to do, so a good indication that a verse is not referring to the Law of God is if it is referring to something that Paul delighted in doing, such as delighting in the strength of sin.

The Law of God is God's word Christ is God's word made flesh, so obeying the Law of God through following Christ's example is the way to be unified with him, and it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:4 as saying that we need to die to God's word in order to become unified with God's word made flesh, but rather we would need to die to a law that was hindering us from obeying God's word in order to become unified with him. Likewise, it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:4 as saying that we need to die to God's instructions for how to bear fruit for Him in order to bear fruit for Him, but rather we would need to die to a law that was hindering us from obeying those instructions.

‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message.

Moses law is for people without the Holy Ghost

In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law, and in Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin, and in Romans 3:20, it is by God's law that we have knowledge of sin. in Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contested with those who have minds set on the flesh who refuse to submit to God's law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit and do not obey God's law.

 

[Aaron56]

Obeying God's law is not about earning a certain result, but about the gift of having a certain experience. The content of a gift can itself be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to drive a Ferrari for an hour, where the gift requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have that experience, but where doing that work has nothing to do with earning the opportunity to drive it as the result. In a similar manner, the content of God's gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing Him and Jesus (John 17:3) and the gift of God's law is His instructions for how to have that experience, which is Moses said in Exodus 33:13 that he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and why Jesus said in Matthew 7:23 that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them.


In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so following the Mosaic Law is not one of the ways that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, especially because the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to know Him through acting in accordance with His nature.


The law of sin and death was not the one given at Sinai. In Romans 7:25-8:2, Paul contrasted the Law of God (which was given at Sinai) with the law of sin and contrasted the Law of the Spirit of Life with the law of sin and death, he equated the the Law of the Spirit with the law that was given at Sinai. After all, the law given at Sinai was given by God and the Spirit is God and it wouldn't make sense to think that the Spirit has the role of freeing us from obeying the Father, but rather the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). In 1 John 3:10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God, and in Romans 8:4-10, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to obey the Mosaic Law.


Peter could have obeyed the Mosaic Law and God's command in his vision by simply killing and eating one of the clean animals, so the key to correctly understanding his vision is understanding why he refused to do what the Mosaic Law permitted him to do. It should be noted that Peter did not just object by saying that he had never eaten anything that was unclean, but also added that he had never eaten anything that was command and God did not rebuke Peter for his use of the word "unclean", but only rebuked him for his use of the word "common". In other words, Peter correctly identified the unclean animals as unclean and correctly knew that he was not being asked to eat them, but he incorrectly identified the clean animals as common and incorrectly declined to eat them in disobedience to God's command to kill and eat. Peter interpreted his vision three times as being in regard to incorrectly identifying Gentiles without saying a word about now being able to eat unclean animals, so his vision had nothing to do with a change in their status.

To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon, so Jesus fulfill the law by spending his ministry teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example, which has nothing to do with causing us to no longer be governed by it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, but you do not consistently interpret that as saying that bearing one another's burdens causes us to no longer be governed by the Law of Christ.

This is so horrible I don’t even know where to start. So much bad doctrine!

 

[HumbleBee]

This is so horrible I don’t even know where to start. So much bad doctrine!

the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[Gideon300]

The 613 Mizvot.

Not at all sensible.
1. The 613 did not apply to every Israelite. Some were for women, some were for priests and Levites.
2. If you want to obey the law, you must sacrifice animals to atone for your sin.
3. There is no physical temple. There is no Priesthood and there are no Levites. That ended with the destruction of the temple.
4. If you are a Jew, you have no business telling Christians how to live. If you are not a Jew, you have no business trying to impose Jewish law on Christians.

 

[Soyeong]

This is so horrible I don’t even know where to start. So much bad doctrine!

Feel free to pick a paragraph, this thread grew quickly, so I addressed a number of your posts to catch up.

 

[Gideon300]

Why do you think they cannot perfectly keep the law if they truly have the Holy Spirit in them and they have a new Spirit Body?

The Law was given to sinful Israel as a set of rules to live by. There is nothing wrong with the law. The problem is that there is no desire in the heart of man to keep it. If we could keep the law, Jesus need not have come to save us.

Once this life is over and the next begins, there is no need for law. Sin is in the flesh, not the spirit. With a new spirit body, there is no sin nature and so no inclination to sin.