WHICH Bible "version" Is Authorized By God?

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presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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However, I think I clearly explained that in my last post. I said Gordon Fee is a Pentecostal who wrote a pamphlet against Word Faith! That means they are not the same!
That was after a sentences about Fee having books that did not have a hint of A/G theology in them. I wondered if you considered A/G theology WOF.

If someone were a Calvinist or something like that, Pentecostal and WOF theology may seem similar. The WOF movement has some ideas about faith and healing that some in the Pentecostal movement and Holiness movement held to previously, but is also mixed with some of Kenyon's approaches to the issue. Hagin that this idea that 'bad stuff' including judgments, in some cases, weren't from God, but that He allowed it.

Of course the LORD in the Old Testament says that if Israel were obedient that He would not put upon the Israelites any of the deseases that He put upon the Egyptians-- taking credit for making the Egyptians sick. That runs contrary to the late Kenneth Hagin's teaching, IMO. IMO, most Pentecostals tend not to be so extreme about the issue of God making people sick because they tend to read and teach out of both Old and New Testament scriptures. I don't think of Bethel, Redding as WOF, but they seem to have the same problem with the issue of sickness in their teachings.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
3,399
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We Need Correct Words, What About Whole Verses? :giggle:

Your not going to find those verses in the modern translation counterfeits.

Matthew 17:21, Matthew 18:11, Acts 8:37, Romans 16:24 in the NIV, NASB, ESV, ETC, because the verses are (Removed)
This one is not old, just came from NASB 2020 replacing both the 1972 and 1995 editions.

1617040451563.png 1617040451563.png
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
16,210
7,992
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This one is not old, just came from NASB 2020 replacing both the 1972 and 1995 editions.
When modern versions are constantly being revised and "updated" that is proof positive that they were unreliable to begin with. In contrast, the King James Bible which we use to day is identical to that of 1611, apart from changes to spelling, punctuation, typeface etc. Below is an example of what I am talking about.

JOHN 1:1-14 IN THE ORIGINAL KING JAMES BIBLE
1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darknesse, and the darknesse comprehended it not. 6¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was Iohn. 7 The same came for a witnesse, to beare witnesse of the light, that all men through him might beleeue. 8 Hee was not that light, but was sent to beare witnesse of that light. 9 That was the true light, which lighteth euery man that commeth into the world. 10 Hee was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 Hee came vnto his owne, and his owne receiued him not. 12 But as many as receiued him, to them gaue hee power to become the sonnes of God, euen to them that beleeue on his Name: 13 Which were borne, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among vs (& we beheld his glory, the glory as of the onely begotten of the Father) full of grace and trueth.

CURRENT STANDARD KING JAMES BIBLE
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,356
10,639
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When modern versions are constantly being revised and "updated" that is proof positive that they were unreliable to begin with. In contrast, the King James Bible which we use to day is identical to that of 1611, apart from changes to spelling, punctuation, typeface etc. Below is an example of what I am talking about.

JOHN 1:1-14 IN THE ORIGINAL KING JAMES BIBLE
1 In the beginning was the Word, & the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darknesse, and the darknesse comprehended it not. 6¶ There was a man sent from God, whose name was Iohn. 7 The same came for a witnesse, to beare witnesse of the light, that all men through him might beleeue. 8 Hee was not that light, but was sent to beare witnesse of that light. 9 That was the true light, which lighteth euery man that commeth into the world. 10 Hee was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 Hee came vnto his owne, and his owne receiued him not. 12 But as many as receiued him, to them gaue hee power to become the sonnes of God, euen to them that beleeue on his Name: 13 Which were borne, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among vs (& we beheld his glory, the glory as of the onely begotten of the Father) full of grace and trueth.

CURRENT STANDARD KING JAMES BIBLE
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Apples to oranges!

Put the KJV translators in the 20th/21st century and they would revise their work.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
Dynamic equivalence and formal equivalence.

You can't possibly know the theologies of hundreds of Bible scholars & translators.
They would have to be taken on a case by case basis.
"inferior" is a matter of opinion.
I don't want to read what they think Peter or Paul meant, that's what we are talking about.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
19,356
10,639
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I don't want to read what they think Peter or Paul meant, that's what we are talking about.
You would rather have, "Small domestic animals are falling from the sky" than "It's raining heavily"?
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,459
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That was after a sentences about Fee having books that did not have a hint of A/G theology in them. I wondered if you considered A/G theology WOF.

If someone were a Calvinist or something like that, Pentecostal and WOF theology may seem similar. The WOF movement has some ideas about faith and healing that some in the Pentecostal movement and Holiness movement held to previously, but is also mixed with some of Kenyon's approaches to the issue. Hagin that this idea that 'bad stuff' including judgments, in some cases, weren't from God, but that He allowed it.

Of course the LORD in the Old Testament says that if Israel were obedient that He would not put upon the Israelites any of the deseases that He put upon the Egyptians-- taking credit for making the Egyptians sick. That runs contrary to the late Kenneth Hagin's teaching, IMO. IMO, most Pentecostals tend not to be so extreme about the issue of God making people sick because they tend to read and teach out of both Old and New Testament scriptures. I don't think of Bethel, Redding as WOF, but they seem to have the same problem with the issue of sickness in their teachings.
I was in Pentecostal (PAOC in Canada - sister of AoG) and charismatic churches for 15 years before I switched to EV Free, then Alliance, then Baptist. That was to do with moving provinces. I had been taught a lot of things in those churches, which had nothing to do with sign gifts, that I was never comfortable with, like Arminianism and Dispensationalism. But mostly I left because I was lied to by pastoral staff, and I wasn't like what I saw as far as the sign gifts. But mostly I was hungry for God, and did not get fed, the sermons were shallow, always on the same topic- the Holy Spirit moving.

Plus, after 15 years, I had read my Bible 15 times, and I wasn't hearing what I was reading in my Bible in sermons in church.

At the EV Free church, I started hearing the Bible being exegeted properly, same with the Baptist churches. (Not the Alliance Church! I would have gotten more out of a PAOC church) plus, I started taking courses with the PAOC, and started studying the Bible, and theology, learned lots about the denomination. Like anyone not believing in a pre-tribe rapture was not saved and going to hell. Right there in print.

I found a Baptist Church next, which had a great preacher. He had so much wisdom, I decided I wanted to know more about God, and prayed God would lead me, and his answer was a call to seminary!

My old Pentecostal friends gave me Kenyon's book to read, as early as 1984 and I didn't know what to think about it. It didn't match anything I read in my Bible, at all. Then read Hagin and Copeland. A friend became obsessed with Copeland, got a PhD from his ministry school, not sure whether that was accredited. She was one of the people who told me I should be healed, I didn't have enough faith. That was absolutely the worst thing anyone has done to me!! She died after breast cancer metastasized when she refused treatment, because she had claimed healing.

So I do agree Pentecostals are a lot milder. They do believe in healing, but not to the extent that the "Name It & Claim It" group does! I do think Bethel has a lot of underpinnings with WOF, but they add a lot of lies to it, like angels wings and glitter.

Long post just so you know I am fully knowledgeable about the differences between Pentecostal and WOF. I lean Reformed, can't say I am Reformed because of the issue of women in ministry. But that change only happened in the last 8-10 years. Mostly because it agreed with what I read in my Bible!
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
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London
We are much better equipped with comprehensible Bibles.
But that is the job of teachers and commentators, that is in essence what we are arguing about [in a brotherly way I hope]

So many, perhaps the most christians when they want to learn the bible head for the commentary shelf, these days I have a feeling many would rather listen to a well produced vid than study for themselves. I have always studied and formed my own view first and then looked to see what the commentators have said.

I am pleased to discover that the commentators I mostly concur with belong to what is called the sovereign grace crowd as opposed to the human freewill brigade.

Listen if you believe that the work of salvation and sanctification is done from top to bottom by God you will understand scripture very differently from one who believes that the work is co operation between ourselves and God.

THAT'S what this debate is about. How a preacher preaches John 3.16 will depend which side you are on and crucially it will affect the methods you use to get a result from your preaching.

It is not a trite argument it is fundamental.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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But that is the job of teachers and commentators, that is in essence what we are arguing about [in a brotherly way I hope]

So many, perhaps the most christians when they want to learn the bible head for the commentary shelf, these days I have a feeling many would rather listen to a well produced vid than study for themselves. I have always studied and formed my own view first and then looked to see what the commentators have said.

I am pleased to discover that the commentators I mostly concur with belong to what is called the sovereign grace crowd as opposed to the human freewill brigade.

Listen if you believe that the work of salvation and sanctification is done from top to bottom by God you will understand scripture very differently from one who believes that the work is co operation between ourselves and God.

THAT'S what this debate is about. How a preacher preaches John 3.16 will depend which side you are on and crucially it will affect the methods you use to get a result from your preaching.

It is not a trite argument it is fundamental.
I've never had a Bible with a commentary attached. Commentary to me is extra-biblical reading.
I view it the same as any other Christian writing. Opinion, some of it very helpful but not the word of God.
Seeking a Bible that I think backs up a specific doctrine more than another would be an alien approach to me.


John 3:16 reads the same in every translation I can find.
How a preacher delivers it really isn't going to change my mind about what it means.



I can't speak for Jehovah's Witness or Mormon Bibles.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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1,399
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That was after a sentences about Fee having books that did not have a hint of A/G theology in them. I wondered if you considered A/G theology WOF.

If someone were a Calvinist or something like that, Pentecostal and WOF theology may seem similar. The WOF movement has some ideas about faith and healing that some in the Pentecostal movement and Holiness movement held to previously, but is also mixed with some of Kenyon's approaches to the issue. Hagin that this idea that 'bad stuff' including judgments, in some cases, weren't from God, but that He allowed it.

Of course the LORD in the Old Testament says that if Israel were obedient that He would not put upon the Israelites any of the deseases that He put upon the Egyptians-- taking credit for making the Egyptians sick. That runs contrary to the late Kenneth Hagin's teaching, IMO. IMO, most Pentecostals tend not to be so extreme about the issue of God making people sick because they tend to read and teach out of both Old and New Testament scriptures. I don't think of Bethel, Redding as WOF, but they seem to have the same problem with the issue of sickness in their teachings.
Bethel songs are very popular among all charismatic churches. The moment the latter start singing their songs, its quite easy for them to adopt WOF doctrines.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,617
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Bethel songs are very popular among all charismatic churches. The moment the latter start singing their songs, its quite easy for them to adopt WOF doctrines.
Feelings and endorphins can cause a lot of odd doctrines to be adopted.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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Feelings and endorphins can cause a lot of odd doctrines to be adopted.
Well the promises to Israel include physical healings under the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 4:23-24, Matthew 10:7-8)

Its very tempting for us in the Body of Christ to want to claim those healing promises too, and we justify it by misapplying the verse about Jesus being the same yesterday, today and forever.