WHO IS ENOCH AND WHAT DOES HE MEAN TO ME?

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Jesus taught Matthew 24 to His disciples, right? Then later on He told them to go and teach that to all nations at the great commission. This was before Paul was called.

My point is that wouldn't it be strange if the disciples were out teaching false doctrine to gentiles about facing tribulation/seeing the abomination of desolation, only to be later corrected by a mystery revealed to Paul?

But I must also say in favor of the pre-trib view that Matthew 24 mentions SABBATH and JUDEA and AoD which are clues its for a jewish audience.

These are two different subjects even though they are close together in Matthew. The first was in answer to a few of the disciples that had come to Him on the side . . . away from the others . . .

"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:3-5).

At the conclusion of Matthew 28, the eleven are together and receive the Lord's final instructions . . . the Great Commission - although they were pretty much clueless as to what it meant at that time.

"Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen" (Matthew 28:16-20).

Matthew 25 is given to teaching briefly about the Millennial kingdom . . . then the crucifixion followed over the next chapters.

 

[NayborBear]

What does this have to do with the fact that Enoch died and Hebrews affirms that all the men spoken about in the context of the
passage died?



The Greek word in Hebrews 11 from which the phrase "was taken" is derived (the King James Bible uses the word "translated") is Strong's Concordance #G3346. This word, in the Greek, means to transport or transfer a person.

The gospel of John records for us Jesus' statement to Nicodemus that not a SINGLE person has gone to where God's throne exists except the Son of Man. The Lord told him, "no one has ascended into heaven, except He Who came down from heaven, even the Son of man, Who is in heaven" (John 3:13, HBFV)

The Lord, in His wisdom, decided to transport Enoch and Elijah away from where they were originally located so that someone (or something) would not be able to physically kill or murder them at that particular time. They did NOT go to heaven, but continued to live the SAME kind of fleshly existence we do after they moved until they died. This is in agreement with other scriptures that state ALL men must die a physical death (Hebrews 9:27).

That is the correct understanding of the scripture otherwise the very words of Christ Jesus are contradicted.

You just "keep" your "contextualized" God, in that there box you got him in! Cuz, I, for one? Ain't buyin' it! -smh

I'll pray y'alls hearts be "pricked", and understanding be given, according to God's will for y'all!

 

[Frankfrancis777]

read this book

 

[NayborBear]

View attachment 191284 read this book

Did reading this help ya?

 

[Frankfrancis777]

Did reading this help ya?

of course it will help because ' Books of enoch were abolished from the BIBLE. and it's the translation of the original context.

 

[Frankfrancis777]

Even Muslims do believe that Enoch was one of the greatest prophets after Moses then the question arise that why too small role is written in The Bible.
why book of enoch was abolished ?

 

[jb]

Enoch proves a pre-tribulation rapture.

Absolute fiction!

The destructive heresy of a secret pre-tribulation advent and rapture was not known in the Church until the early 1830`s.

2Thess 2v1-12 clearly teaches a post tribulation advent and rapture in glory!

 

[cv5]

In Genesis 5:22 and 24 we see Enoch. So, before the flood happened, even in the midst of all that wickedness, Enoch walked with God! Now what's neat about division, and types and figures in the Bible . . . every grounded Bible believer that has studied the Ark of Noah knows that it can be used as a type of Christ. And when you received Him by faith, He put you in and closed the door. That's a good type. But doctrinally, according to Scripture, Noah is a type of the Jew going through the Tribulation period. Why? Because God's wrath was upon the world. And the Great Tribulation is like the world never saw. And who is going to be protected? The Jews that get in the ark. Those are the remnant-that flee to Petra when the Antichrist is revealed for who he is at the desolation of abomination.

"And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Genesis 5:21-24).

See, if you read your Bible and get these things, you start to see these pictures and you connect them and you ask, "Who is Enoch a representation of?" Well, let's see. If the Jews go through the Tribulation period--the church doesn't--we walk with God. If you go to Hebrews, you read:

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Enoch was translated and he didn't see God. So the rapture happens before Noah. And how do we know when it is getting close? Because the Lord Jesus says, "in the days of Noah and Lot . . .". And you know it has to be globally, and globally we are in it. What is recorded that Lot did, and the bunch from Sodom and Gomorrah, it's happening now. And the wickedness is made normal. To people, it is just normal to think certain ways . . . but not scripturally. So there is a global mindset going on, all these things, are a result of what they value.

Enoch proves a pre-tribulation rapture.

"And you know it has to be globally, and globally we are in it. "
Perhaps one generation more, or two. But we are indeed very very close to the Great Tribulation.

Allow me to offer some other biblical analogies to the pre-trib Rapture:
- Lot had to be removed from Sodom BEFORE judgment
- Joseph received his gentile bride before the 7 year famine
- Daniel is not mentioned in the fiery furnace incident in Daniel 3
- Ruth (a type of the Church) is "covered" at the feet of Boaz at the threshing floor scene
- gentile Rahab is saved from the judgment on Jericho (sign of the scarlet chord)
-Isaiah 26:20-21 also gives us a possible picture of the Rapture preceding the Tribulation:
“Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, the LORD comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; the earth will also disclose her blood, and will no more cover her slain.”

These are "macro codes". The pre-trib rapture is quite certain. All other opinions fail by comparison.

 

[cv5]

Even Muslims do believe that Enoch was one of the greatest prophets after Moses then the question arise that why too small role is written in The Bible.
why book of enoch was abolished ? View attachment 191285

Considered uninspired. However, that does NOT mean that all of the contents are false or untrue or without merit or usefullness!
The fact that Jude quotes Enoch indicates that some extrabiblical writings can be useful in terms of historical content etc.

 

[louis]

In Genesis 5:22 and 24 we see Enoch. So, before the flood happened, even in the midst of all that wickedness, Enoch walked with God! Now what's neat about division, and types and figures in the Bible . . . every grounded Bible believer that has studied the Ark of Noah knows that it can be used as a type of Christ. And when you received Him by faith, He put you in and closed the door. That's a good type. But doctrinally, according to Scripture, Noah is a type of the Jew going through the Tribulation period. Why? Because God's wrath was upon the world. And the Great Tribulation is like the world never saw. And who is going to be protected? The Jews that get in the ark. Those are the remnant-that flee to Petra when the Antichrist is revealed for who he is at the desolation of abomination.

"And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah: And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters: And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years: And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Genesis 5:21-24).

See, if you read your Bible and get these things, you start to see these pictures and you connect them and you ask, "Who is Enoch a representation of?" Well, let's see. If the Jews go through the Tribulation period--the church doesn't--we walk with God. If you go to Hebrews, you read:

"By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God" (Hebrews 11:5).

Enoch was translated and he didn't see God. So the rapture happens before Noah. And how do we know when it is getting close? Because the Lord Jesus says, "in the days of Noah and Lot . . .". And you know it has to be globally, and globally we are in it. What is recorded that Lot did, and the bunch from Sodom and Gomorrah, it's happening now. And the wickedness is made normal. To people, it is just normal to think certain ways . . . but not scripturally. So there is a global mindset going on, all these things, are a result of what they value.

Enoch proves a pre-tribulation rapture.

What is interesting is that the scripture in Genesis says God took Enoch, and it does not say Enoch was caught up.
Likewise the scripture in Hebrews shows Enoch being translated to God, and not caught up.

There are only three areas in the bible where the description "caught up" appears those being 2 Corinthians 12:2 &4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5.
In 2 Corinthians 12 the individual who was caught up to God, later relates his experience to Paul, thereby indicating his having being caught up spiritually to God.
Likewise the man child produced by the travailing woman who is caught up to God and His throne in Revelation 12:5; the devil being then cast to the earth goes off to fight with the woman's offspring in Revelation 12:17, thereby indicating the man child who is caught up to God, is spiritually caught up to God, while physically remaining on the earth.
So the question now becomes: If 2 of the 3 instances in which individuals are caught up to God in heaven, are spiritual ascendances while the individuals themselves remain physically on the earth; what then are those who are caught up to God in 1 Thessalonians 4, is it a spiritual ascendance or is it the Lord taking and translating His people off the earth?
Why did the Lord not use the same description for taking and translating His people from off the earth as He used in Genesis and Hebrews?
Why would the Lord use the caught up description in 1 Thessalonians, knowing full well that the other two times He uses this description in 2 Corinthians 12 and Revelation 12, the individuals are seen still physically on the earth?

 

[JaumeJ]

Love (Godd) tells me that during the tribulation at least the first half, there will be people of understanding who will halp many..Daniel.

God would not leave people in the tribulation with no help.

When Jesus returns He will send His angels out first to bring those fromthe ir sleep and then those who are yet in the flesh and alive to meet Him in the cloudss. This will not happen before the tribulation. Again, perhaps halfway through, I do not know, I do know that all who believe will be beheaded…..

 

[cv5]

What is interesting is that the scripture in Genesis says God took Enoch, and it does not say Enoch was caught up.
Likewise the scripture in Hebrews shows Enoch being translated to God, and not caught up.

There are only three areas in the bible where the description "caught up" appears those being 2 Corinthians 12:2 &4; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; and Revelation 12:5.
In 2 Corinthians 12 the individual who was caught up to God, later relates his experience to Paul, thereby indicating his having being caught up spiritually to God.
Likewise the man child produced by the travailing woman who is caught up to God and His throne in Revelation 12:5; the devil being then cast to the earth goes off to fight with the woman's offspring in Revelation 12:17, thereby indicating the man child who is caught up to God, is spiritually caught up to God, while physically remaining on the earth.
So the question now becomes: If 2 of the 3 instances in which individuals are caught up to God in heaven, are spiritual ascendances while the individuals themselves remain physically on the earth; what then are those who are caught up to God in 1 Thessalonians 4, is it a spiritual ascendance or is it the Lord taking and translating His people off the earth?
Why did the Lord not use the same description for taking and translating His people from off the earth as He used in Genesis and Hebrews?
Why would the Lord use the caught up description in 1 Thessalonians, knowing full well that the other two times He uses this description in 2 Corinthians 12 and Revelation 12, the individuals are seen still physically on the earth?

What exactly is your point? Pre trib or rapture or mid or post? Or amillennialism?

 

[NayborBear]

Considered uninspired. However, that does NOT mean that all of the contents are false or untrue or without merit or usefullness!
The fact that Jude quotes Enoch indicates that some extrabiblical writings can be useful in terms of historical content etc.

I'll have to admit, that I haven't read ALL the book of Enoch!

I was lead, however to read those parts that named names, and what those that were "swept" by the dragon's tale (tail), showed men, and women! Which I found EXTREMELY Illuminating!

 

[cv5]

Love (Godd) tells me that during the tribulation at least the first half, there will be people of understanding who will halp many..Daniel.

God would not leave people in the tribulation with no help.

When Jesus returns He will send His angels out first to bring those fromthe ir sleep and then those who are yet in the flesh and alive to meet Him in the cloudss. This will not happen before the tribulation. Again, perhaps halfway through, I do not know, I do know that all who believe will be beheaded…..

"Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged."
This is one of the most error-plagued of all scriptures. What is being referred to is likely the unrighteous judgments made by the religious leaders meant to intimidate and/or exploit the people.
A few verses later Jesus exhorts us TO righteous judgment. BTW righteous judgment is ESSENTIAL within the church.

6“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

 

[marinerscatch]

I love the story and idealism of Enoch. I love how Yeshua and others including Jude quote him. But why is it that I love these things about him? In my humble opinion, Enoch is our first example of the "END." He was both a Daniel and the Disciple John. I understand there is a great debate over this supposed BOOK of ENOCH, but there is a consistent opinion that the first portion of that Book was actually from him. And of course, my favorite part is and basically only part I relish is chapter one.

We know that the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation line up together. But before there ever was a Book of Daniel and Revelation speaking about the "End of Times," there was Enoch speaking of it well before the flood of Noah.

I took the liberty to copy the portion of chapter one from the Book of Enoch to show my point in how it not only relates to the Books of Daniel and Revelation, but how it proceeds them in the same thought and warning. And his warning also came to him in a vision like it did for both Daniel and John. Basically, Enoch is the first of three warning to us about the coming Tribulation:

Enoch:

Chapter One:

1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be 2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is 3 for to come. Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them:

The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling,
4 And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai,
[And appear from His camp]
And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens.

5 And all shall be smitten with fear
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth.

6 And the high mountains shall be shaken,
And the high hills shall be made low,
And shall melt like wax before the flame

7 And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder,
And all that is upon the earth shall perish,
And there shall be a judgement upon all (men).

8 But with the righteous He will make peace.

And will protect the elect,
And mercy shall be upon them.

And they shall all belong to God,
And they shall be prospered,
And they shall all be blessed.

And He will help them all,
And light shall appear unto them,
And He will make peace with them'.

9 And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:

And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.

 

[marinerscatch]

Something else interesting is verse 1 of chapter one of Enoch. He makes it seem he will be there in the Tribulation. This ultimately leads to that one question we always debate about, is he then one of the TWO WITNESSES?

He never physically died like Elijah. Could this be his physical death finally like it appears to also be Elijah's?

 

[louis]

What exactly is your point? Pre trib or rapture or mid or post? Or amillennialism?

My point is that you need to put all scriptures together to get a clear picture of what really is going on.
There are many description of the Lords people remaining on the earth after the Great tribulation.
The Lords people are to rule the nations with a rod of iron when the Lord commences to reign on earth at the conclusion of Satan and the beasts 42 months.
The worlds nations will then be in gross darkness, while the Lords light will come upon the faithful (Isaiah 60:2).
What this means is that after the devil is cast to the earth, and makes his last stand by vesting his seat, power and authority on the beast; the Lord will then at the conclusion of the beasts 42 months stop providing faithless mankind with illumination, while providing greater illumination to His saints (thereby their being caught up spiritually).

Isaiah 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the Lord shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

 

[JaumeJ]

MC...…….that was really good to read. I read Enoch a long time ago, but then I heard there were two versions, one being not good.... Which version is the corrct one if there is such a thing.

Also, I see in the forum a lot of posting with mention of the return of our Lord of late. Also lots about the latter days, actually the latter minutes of what is now called time.

It is a thrill to think He is so near to return…..Praise Yeshua b'shem Elohanu ad olam.

 

[Deade]

So the question now becomes: If 2 of the 3 instances in which individuals are caught up to God in heaven, are spiritual ascendances while the individuals themselves remain physically on the earth; what then are those who are caught up to God in 1 Thessalonians 4, is it a spiritual ascendance or is it the Lord taking and translating His people off the earth?

There is no taking people off the earth. When Christ comes back He will circle the earth for the resurrection of the elect dead and elect alive. Then He will set His feet down on the Mount of Olives fulfilling the prophecy:

Acts 1:11 "Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

 

[louis]

Love (Godd) tells me that during the tribulation at least the first half, there will be people of understanding who will halp many..Daniel.

God would not leave people in the tribulation with no help.

When Jesus returns He will send His angels out first to bring those fromthe ir sleep and then those who are yet in the flesh and alive to meet Him in the cloudss. This will not happen before the tribulation. Again, perhaps halfway through, I do not know, I do know that all who believe will be beheaded…..

That's very good. The help the saints receive during the great tribulation appears in Daniel 11:34.
Nevertheless, Daniel 11:33 and 35 also show that many saints will be killed during this time as well.

Daniel 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.