Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus said faith is a law requirement

No He didn't ... you're just asserting what your erroneous dogma claims. If, as you say, the promise is through "a law requirement", then the promise is void:

Romans 4:14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect

Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

It's true the scribes and pharisees should have come to Messiah rather than try to keep the law, as salvation has always been by grace through faith.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Your shtick about "human faith" is another of your made up lies due to your inability to comprehend Scripture.

That term ("human faith") is a figment of your imagination.

No its not

The term "human faith" does not appear in Scripture.

The term "human faith" is just another of your made up notions due to your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma does not align with Scripture, you are to let go of your error.

2 Corinthians 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The term "human faith" is an imagination you are to cast down.

The term "human faith" is a high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God.

I, on the other hand, have maintained that there is no such thing as "human faith" as, according to Scripture there is only one faith ...

Thats false. You said God has given every human being faith and used Rom 12:3 as your proof text. What does every man mean to you in Rom 12:3 ?

there is only one faith.

You think that because all mankind has the one faith that it's a different "faith" in all ± 8 billion people who populate the earth at the present time??? ... and that all people who have ever lived since time of Adam have all had a different "faith"???

That is not what Scripture tells us. Scripture tells us there is one faith. Your erroneous dogma borders on insanity!!!

When a person mis-utilizes that which God has provided to all mankind in order to believe Truth, that person believes the lies of satan with the same faith the true believer believes the Truth laid out in Scripture.

Just like you mis-uttilize faith, and put human faith in the matters of Salvation !

sigh ... no such thing as "human faith".

Your "human faith" concept is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness in order to prop up your erroneous dogma. What a farce!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

Just because some reject the Lord Jesus Christ, that does not mean the Lord Jesus Christ did not die for him/her.

Ezekiel 33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die ...

He Justifieth the ungodly, those who reject Him !

lie of the wicked one ... God justifies those who believe on Him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead for we are justified by faith. Those who reject God will find themselves rejected come judgment day.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
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[brightfame52]

renewed

vs 17 corroborates what is written in vs 16 ... that the Lord Jesus Christ came to save mankind ... not angels.

Philippians 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on [him the nature of] angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham


There really is no difference between what is written in Phil 2:7 (that the Lord Jesus Christ was made in the likeness of men) and Heb 2:16 (that the Lord Jesus Christ took on Him the seed of Abraham) other than the fact that Philippians was written to gentiles and Hebrews was written to Jews.

The point in both records is the Lord Jesus Christ is the savior of the whole world ... all mankind ... all descendants of Adam

The point is as already stated, Christ came and made reconciliation/propitiation, for not all mankind, not all of Adams physical descendants, but one particular segment of it, the seed of Abraham. All Adams descendants are not the seed of Abraham. Heb 2:16-17

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

That word reconciliation is the same word propitiation hilaskomai and it means the same thing as the word propitiation in 1 Jn 2:2, so the whole world in 1 Jn 2:2 that Jesus is the propitiation for, is the whole world of the seed of Abraham.

 

[FreeGrace2]

brightfame52 said:
1 Jn 5:1 it teaches that one is born of God before they believe

... another of your "born again in order to be born again" mantras.

Under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before he/she is really born again???
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It is so sad to see how ignorant of Scripture the other poster is.

1 Jn 5:1 clearly doesn't say what he claims. It says those who are now believing have been born again. That's all.

It says nothing about the order of belief and regeneration.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

nope ... I have submitted post after post stating that justification is through faith just as is written in Scripture. You know it ... I know it ... all who have followed this thread know it..

What you believe and have posted is opposed to scripture and Justification by Faith, what you teach is justification by works, the law, human conditions.

Where have I ever stated "justified people go to hell for their sins ?"

Its implied by what you teach. You teach the whole wide world of individuals have Jesus as their propitiation, because you dont understand 1 Jn 2:2, and yet you teach that people still go to hell for their sins, which is an contradiction in itself. Those whose sins God has been propitiated for, those people are yet Justified. So you believe justified people go to hell for their sins.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The verse is not difficult to comprehend. You find it difficult because you try to align the verse with your erroneous dogma ... and that is not the appropriate approach to Scripture.

Yet you dont comprehend it, nor believe it.

nope ...

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

The reference to "our sins" = the sins of born again believers. Those who are already justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

The reference to "but also the sins of the whole world" = those who are not born again.

Once again, you dont understand or believe 1 Jn 2:2, its a reference to the saved, justified world of Gods Elect, Seed of Abraham. There are no lost people in that world. No one charged with sin in that world.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

wow ... what a lie from the pit ... I have never said anything close to what you claim.

You havent said that directly, but its cloaked in religious garb, but whenever one teaches that folk go to hell for their sins in unbelief, even after Christ has shed His Precious Blood for them, in essence they are saying His Blood was worthless. Because Jesus Blood actually saves them it was shed for. Listen to the saved Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Whats their testimony ? How were they redeemed unto God ?

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Heb 8:12 relates to the New Covenant ... no born again one is under God's wrath. Those who are under God's wrath are the ones who suppress the truth in unrighteousness because that which may be known of God is manifest in them for God hath shewed it to them.

Christs blood shed is in alignment with the New Covenant duh Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

So again, those who Christ shed His Blood for, God forgives all their unrighteousness, so Rom 1:18

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

This cannot apply to anyone Christ shed His Blood for. Why ? Because of the blood Heb 8:12

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

No, those He died for do not have to believe it, accept it or do anything but continue being ungodly sinners

Yeah I said that, but in what context ? See when you make a blanket statement like this without providing the context in which it was stated, its being deceitful and dishonest .

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

According to Romans 1:18-20, those who do not "believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" are the ones who suppress, restrain the truth in unrighteousness. These are the ones who "must give in account for their unrighteousness described in Rom 1":

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō = suppress, restrain] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

Yeah, but this doesnt apply to the elect, Christ died for all that unrighteousness, so God instead of wrath on them, Hes mercifiul to them Heb 8:12
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

God has absolutely no wrath for sinners Christ has died for. God doesnt even charge them with sin, He delivers them from their sins and sinful ways. Hes merciful unto them, for Christ's sake !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

intentionally obtuse.

It is clear from 2 Cor 4:4 that it is satan who hides the gospel. The gospel is not hid by God as you erroneously claim. Additionally, the gospel is not the mystery which was hid in God from the beginning of the world until He revealed the mystery to Paul. Those are truths you continue to suppress.

Yeah obtuse, it doesnt matter who hides it, its hid ! So while in a lost state, the Gospel is hidden to a person, so they cannot possibly believe it.

 

[FreeGrace2]

RDBD said:
wow ... what a lie from the pit ... I have never said anything close to what you claim.

You havent said that directly, but its cloaked in religious garb

You just like to make up stuff.

but whenever one teaches that folk go to hell for their sins in unbelief, even after Christ has shed His Precious Blood for them, in essence they are saying His Blood was worthless.

No, they aren't sayiing or even implying that. Your problem is your Calvinist bias, which is unbiblical. Christ died for EVERYONE so that "whoEVER" believes will be saved.

What is obvious is that IF Christ didn't die for someone, they COULDN'T be saved. God COULDN'T save them. So Christ HAD TO die for everyone because His Father WANTS ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH.

1 Tim 2:3-6
3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

This passage REFUTES Calvinism and its unbiblcal claims.

Because Jesus Blood actually saves them it was shed for. Listen to the saved Rev 5:9
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;

Whats their testimony ? How were they redeemed unto God ?

Since the Bible clearly and plainly SAYS that Christ died for all, which means everyone without exception, Calvinism simply FAILS to understand what "redeemed" means. It means "to PURCHASE".

This is what Christ did on the cross. He PURCHASED the gift of eternal life for EVERYONE. But that doesn't explain HOW a person RECEIVES the FREE GIFT of eternal life.

There are many verses that tell us PLAINLY how to possess the gift of eternal life.

John 3:15,16
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6-
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
47 Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

And we also have this very CLEAR verse about how to be saved, and it isn't by election.

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

God was pleased to save those who believe. Couldn't be any more clear. So Calvinist have no excuse for their very unbiblical claims.

God's plan from the beginning was to save those who respond in TRUST to His promise of salvation.

Titus 2:11 - For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

So, God's GRACE offers salvation to everyone.

 

[FreeGrace2]

God has absolutely no wrath for sinners Christ has died for. God doesnt even charge them with sin, He delivers them from their sins and sinful ways. Hes merciful unto them, for Christ's sake !

As always, this poser has no verses that support his claims.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

God has concluded the Jews as well as gentiles under sin that he might have mercy upon all (God has mercy upon Jews as well as gentiles).

Yes they all were imprisoned by God in unbelief, thats being in a lost state, no way out. So man by nature is in a lost state, trapped in unbelief, disobedience. Now those who are Gods elect, God will have mercy on them, its because of Christs blood shed for them, Heb 8:12
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Now in Rom 11:32 God will have mercy upon all the elect, not all mankind.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Actually to be honest with you, Rom 11:32 is speaking only of Gods elect from amongst jews and gentiles. But yet its still true all men are naturally imprisoned in unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

We see the same truth in Galatians 3:22:

Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Yeah, this is speaking about Christs faithfulness, all whom He died for in the covenant, they will be saved from sins dominion, and unbelief, evidenced by their believing. How do we know that Christ has died for someone ? Its because they will believe, evidencing that His faithfulness to the covenant has saved them from their sin and unbelief.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Scripture reveals the gospel. God does not hide the gospel.

The scripture is an external revelation, but the Gospel must be revealed internally to faith. Externally the Gospel comes in word only like here 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

When it comes as word only, it takes no effect inwardly, but when it comes accompanied in the Spirit and Gods powerful Grace, its comes with a internal revelation invading the mind, heart, will and affections, bringing assurance, which is faith.

You seem to believe that anyone can just pickup a bible and start reading it, and thats revelation. Thats wrong, dead wrong. As I have told you numerous times, Jesus must open ones understanding to understand the scriptures Lk 24:44-45

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

You put a lot of s confidence in the flesh in regards to spiritual matters, which is unwise.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes they all were imprisoned by God in unbelief

Totally unbiblical and even blasphemous. 1 Tim 2:3-6 plainly says that God wants ALL MEN to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Calvinism denies God's Word.

thats being in a lost state, no way out.

More unbiblical blasphemy. Titus 2:11 says that God's grace offers salvation to everyone.

This poster cannot refute these verses so he just ignores my posts.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Those who remain "ungodly sinners" the whole of their lifetime will find themselves facing the lake of fire.

Of course, for they were not Christ Sheep and so He didnt die for them. Only Christs Sheep are delivered from unbelief and become believers.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

You're saying that those who reject God are "absolutely acquitted/absolved :

Yes, if Christ died for them, of course !

 

[brightfame52]

you talk out of both sides of your mouth.

You have made it abundantly clear that if one is "elect", he/she does "not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" in your Post #1804:




When I called you out on that lie in Post #1844:




You did not say I misunderstood what you claim ... you agreed that I not only understood what you said, but you agreed with your statement:







You preach a false gospel. You preach the gospel of the god of this world who hides the gospel lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, Who is the image of God, should shine unto those who do not believe is "working" for God.

You preach that faith = works when Scripture clearly reveals faith ≠ works.

You preach that no one must believe it [the gospel], accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners.





Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

NIV: However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness


ESV: And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness

Here's your favorite ... the Amplified: But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God)

ISV: However, to someone who does not work, but simply believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness
.

Again scripture never said believing isnt an act/work !