Who Justifieth the Ungodly

brightfame52 · Oct 30, 2023

He also Justifies them as unbelievers by His death, when He bare their iniquities Isa 53:11

11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

By this bearing their iniquities He Justified them ! Folks though false teachers will deny it and corrupt the truth of it, Christ by dying for the sins of them He died for, The Sheep, that fact alone justified them. Because when He died for them, satisfied the justice and law of God for them, by bearing the punishment due to their sins,

So God for Christ sake doeth acquit them ! Also the word for justify in Isa 53:11 tsadaq means to cleanse ! As in Dan 8:14 ! 26

reneweddaybyday · Oct 30, 2023

brightfame52 said:

nope ... righteousness is imputed when a person believes. This truth is borne out in both OT and NT:

Genesis 15:

4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him [Abraham], saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6 And he [Abraham] believed in the LORD; and he [God] counted it to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

brightfame52 said:

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:29 ... John 3:16f ... 2 Corinthians 5:19 ... 1 John 2:2

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brightfame52 · Nov 1, 2023

Justified solely by Christs obedience !

Though the religions of men dont believe or understand this blessed truth, its nonetheless true, that all the sinners Christ represented in His obedience while upon this earth , it justified them or makes them righteous. Lets look at a scripture to that effect Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word righteous here also means just or justified. The individual sinners obedience has nothing to do with this Justification, because if it did that would contradict and over throw the blessed truth of this verse.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 4, 2023

brightfame52 said:

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

yes, let's read Scripture to see when God imputes righteousness:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

brightfame52 said:

straw man ... Scripture clearly indicates that we are justified by faith ... not the "individual sinners obedience".

Scripture also clearly indicates that faith is not works:

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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brightfame52 · Nov 5, 2023

Also those sinners Christ died for, the same are or have been Justified by His Resurrection from the dead, Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

In other words, Christ being raised from the dead is an attestation that the sinners for whom offences He was delivered up for, they have been cleared, justified of them.

Thats also why Paul wrote to fellow believers in Corinth that if Christ hasn't been risen from the dead their faith is vain, and they are yet still in their sins, so conversely , since He was raised, they are clear and free of their sins, which truth is revealed to God given Faith. 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

There's no such thing as a sinner Christ died for and raised again for, not being Justified ! For that would invalidated the attestation of Christs resurrection from the dead !

brightfame52 · Nov 5, 2023

@reneweddaybyday

Romans 4:

Click to expand...

Believing is the consequence of having been chosen by God and sanctification of the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

reneweddaybyday · Nov 5, 2023

brightfame52 said:

you continuously rip Romans 4:25 from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Why do you not read the verses surrounding Romans 4:25, brightfame52 ? ... what is in those verses that you find so abhorrent ???

brightfame52 said:

... the Lord Jesus Christ would have been raised from the dead even if no one believed for it was not possible for death to hold Him:

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

brightfame52 said:

nope ... your reasoning is again lacking because you refuse to read the verse within the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed it.

The reason Paul "wrote to fellow believers in Corinth that if Christ hasn't been risen from the dead their faith is vain" is because of what we read in verse 12:

1 Corinthians 15:

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

brightfame52 said:

... nope ... again, read Acts 2:24 and you will see that it was not possible for death to hold the Lord Jesus Christ.

God has provided all that is necessary for all descendants of Adam to be free from the bondage of sin.

When a person rejects the means by which he or she may be "Justified !" that "sinner Christ died for" receives the consequence of his or her rejection ... and God allows them to reject. God allowing mankind to reject does not "invalidate the attestation of Christs resurrection from the dead !"

Your surmisings have again been proven false (which you would know if you would READ YOUR BIBLE!!!)
.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 5, 2023

brightfame52 said:

That is not what is stated in the verse, brightfame52. Romans 4:3 specifically states that God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed God.

brightfame52 said:

God has chosen to sanctify those who do not reject Him.

Read the verse just before 2 Thess 2:13:

2 Thessalonians 2:12-13 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

God reveals truth to all mankind ... those who do not believe but have pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

God made provision for them but they have rejected that which God has provided in order for them to not be condemned. They do not believe the truth.

All men ... all descendants of Adam ... believe something. Some believe lies and when the truth is told to them, they reject the truth and hold to the lie they have been told.

When are you going to stop rejecting the truth of Scripture and believe what God has written in Scripture just as He has written it ???

You continuously manipulate what is written in Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... that is not proper interpretation of Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you rightly divide the word of truth you do not have to rip verses from the context.
.

brightfame52 · Nov 6, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

you continuously rip Romans 4:25 from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Why do you not read the verses surrounding Romans 4:25, brightfame52 ? ... what is in those verses that you find so abhorrent ???

... the Lord Jesus Christ would have been raised from the dead even if no one believed for it was not possible for death to hold Him:

Acts 2:24 Whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

nope ... your reasoning is again lacking because you refuse to read the verse within the context in which the Author of Scripture has placed it.

The reason Paul "wrote to fellow believers in Corinth that if Christ hasn't been risen from the dead their faith is vain" is because of what we read in verse 12:

1 Corinthians 15:

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

... nope ... again, read Acts 2:24 and you will see that it was not possible for death to hold the Lord Jesus Christ.

God has provided all that is necessary for all descendants of Adam to be free from the bondage of sin.

When a person rejects the means by which he or she may be "Justified !" that "sinner Christ died for" receives the consequence of his or her rejection ... and God allows them to reject. God allowing mankind to reject does not "invalidate the attestation of Christs resurrection from the dead !"

Your surmisings have again been proven false (which you would know if you would READ YOUR BIBLE!!!)
.

You appear to deny the witness of Christs Resurrection, that those for whom He died, they were Justified Rom 4:25

25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

brightfame52 · Nov 6, 2023

reneweddaybyday said:

That is not what is stated in the verse, brightfame52. Romans 4:3 specifically states that God imputed righteousness to Abraham when Abraham believed God.

God has chosen to sanctify those who do not reject Him.

Read the verse just before 2 Thess 2:13:

2 Thessalonians 2:12-13 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

God reveals truth to all mankind ... those who do not believe but have pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

God made provision for them but they have rejected that which God has provided in order for them to not be condemned. They do not believe the truth.

All men ... all descendants of Adam ... believe something. Some believe lies and when the truth is told to them, they reject the truth and hold to the lie they have been told.

When are you going to stop rejecting the truth of Scripture and believe what God has written in Scripture just as He has written it ???

You continuously manipulate what is written in Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... that is not proper interpretation of Scripture.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

When you rightly divide the word of truth you do not have to rip verses from the context.
.

Again believing is the fruit of the Sanctifying work of the Spirit, 2 Thess 2:13

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel,

The Gospel calls to faith them who have been sanctified by the Spirit.

selahsays · Nov 6, 2023

brightfame52 said:

I believe scripture teaches us that the elect of God were justified before God before faith because of the surety-ship doings and righteousness of Jesus Christ their Head, and if this be true, it would be also true that they were justified before God before they actually had a physical being, even before the world began because of His surety-ship engagement to come into the world and die for the elect.

Why were they elect?

selahsays · Nov 6, 2023

brightfame52 said:

…. to those who believe

brightfame52 · Nov 7, 2023

Rom 5:16

and not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

The free gift here isnt a offer as many wickedly teach, but it actually results in many being justified! 27

brightfame52 · Nov 7, 2023

selahsays said:

Correct, however they were shown to be Justified by Christs resurrection prior to their believing.

brightfame52 · Nov 7, 2023

selahsays said:

Thats Gods prerogative, its according to His Good Pleasure, ask Him at the Judgment

reneweddaybyday · Nov 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope

brightfame52 said:

The Lord Jesus Christ died for the whole world ... all descendants of Adam:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

brightfame52 said:

Scripture tells us when God imputes righteousness:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Why do you not read the verses surrounding Romans 4:25, brightfame52 ? ... what is in those verses that you find so abhorrent ???
.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... adding vs 14 does not negate what is written in vs 12, brightfame52:

2 Thessalonians 2:12-14 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth Whereunto he called you by our gospel

God reveals truth to all mankind ... the gospel calls all mankind ... those who do not believe but have pleasure in unrighteousness will be condemned.

God made provision for those who do not believe but they have rejected that which God has provided in order for them to not be condemned. They do not believe the truth.
.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

From John MacArthur New Testament Commentary Romans 1-8 (Volume 15) ... bold/red mine:

Despite the fact that God hates sin so much that any one sin could damn the human race, His loving grace toward man is so great that He provides not only for the redemption of one man from one sin but for the redemption of all men from all sins. Jesus Christ took upon Himself the sins of the whole world. “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2 Cor. 5:19).

(MacArthur, J: Romans 1-8. Chicago: Moody Press)

God has made provision for all the sins of all mankind through the offering His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

If you reject the Lord Jesus Christ, there is no other means of justification. There is only One Way ... and that is the Lord Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
.

reneweddaybyday · Nov 8, 2023

brightfame52 said:

... nope.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
.

brightfame52 · Nov 9, 2023

The elect are justified before God on the sole basis of Christs death Rom 8:33-34

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

His being risen again is because of their Justification Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification

If Christ didn't Justify them by His death by dying for their sins, He could not have and would not have been raised again for their Justification ! 27

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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