Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

Justifieth the Ungodly !

Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14, that those Christ died for are by His Blood, Justified while being ungodly, as their Father Abraham was.

Yes, as was Abraham, they while in a state of nature, and being ungodly, and being enemies in their minds, they are also at the same time in a state of Justification.

Yes being Justified solely by His Grace by the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus their Surety Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

They are Justified by Grace while they are in sin and corruption; this is because even then Christ has been made unto them by God 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

30 But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].


That Redemption spoken of in Rom 3:24 that is the basis of Justification by Grace. And that Righteousness that also Justifies them.

For God imputes Righteousness on all for whom Christ was made sin for 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

That word made here is the same verb Paul uses in 1 Cor 1:30 the word gínomai So He was made unto them Righteousness even while they are in a ungodly state.

This establishes the fact of the truth that those He died for or was made sin for are Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them.

For God to be Just He could only Justify them that are ungodly in themselves as He views them Righteous in and by Christ because of Ex 23:7

Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Hence, His Justification of the Ungodly is based upon Imputed Righteousness not their own.7

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This establishes the fact of the truth that those He died for or was made sin for are Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them.

your surmisings are not in alignment with what is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.

 

[brightfame52]

your surmisings are not in alignment with what is written in Scripture:

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.

This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14,

 

[reneweddaybyday]

This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14,

such a desperate attempt to prop up your erroneous dogma ... God spells out plainly that Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness.

your claim that mankind is "Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them" is not in alignment with what we read in Scripture:


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".


perhaps it is you who lacks spiritual discernment and you are therefore unable to comprehend these truths laid out in Romans 4???

.

 

[brightfame52]

such a desperate attempt to prop up your erroneous dogma ... God spells out plainly that Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness.

your claim that mankind is "Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them" is not in alignment with what we read in Scripture:


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".


perhaps it is you who lacks spiritual discernment and you are therefore unable to comprehend these truths laid out in Romans 4???

.

Once again This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14,

 

[Pilgrimshope]

nope ... newsflash for you, brightfame52, your surmisings are not "the Truth !"


.

I hope you have more success than I did it seems if one simply rejects scripture and claim to have the answer it becomes a circle of frustration and denial

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Once again This is a truth that the natural mind of man cannot receive as Per 1 Cor 2:14,

again a desperate attempt on your part to cling to your errant dogma


your claim that mankind is "Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them" is not in alignment with what we read in Scripture:


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness. Please note, brightfame52, righteousness was imputed to Abraham WHEN Abraham believed ... not before. Align your dogma with what is written in Scripture.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I hope you have more success than I did

thanks ... I'm so glad God makes clear that we don't have to make anyone else believe Scripture ... I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase ... praying God will bring increase in the heart of brightfame52 ...
.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

thanks ... I'm so glad God makes clear that we don't have to make anyone else believe Scripture ... I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase ... praying God will bring increase in the heart of brightfame52 ...
.

amen !

 

[brightfame52]

again a desperate attempt on your part to cling to your errant dogma


your claim that mankind is "Justified or Righteous before Faith or believing by them" is not in alignment with what we read in Scripture:


Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness. Please note, brightfame52, righteousness was imputed to Abraham WHEN Abraham believed ... not before. Align your dogma with what is written in Scripture.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 - righteousness is imputed when a person believes on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead ... not before.

vs 1 - therefore being justified by faith ... the text does not read "therefore being justified before faith".

.

The Gospel is foolishness to many !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The Gospel is foolishness to many !

that does not change the fact that righteousness was imputed to Abraham WHEN Abraham believed ... not before as you continuously yammer on and on about.


22 And therefore it [Abraham's faith] was imputed to him for righteousness. Please note, brightfame52, righteousness was imputed to Abraham WHEN Abraham believed ... not before. Align your dogma with what is written in Scripture.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Please note, brightfame52, righteousness is imputed WHEN a person believes ... not before. Align your dogma to what is written in Scripture.

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


all I'm asking is that you read Scripture as it is written ... quit manipulating Scripture to align with your dogma. Instead, align your dogma with Scripture.
.

 

[sondra333]

Who Justifieth the Ungodly

Rom 4:5

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Rom 5:6

For when we [The elect] were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

These verses tells us something about the elect ! First that by nature we are ungodly, children of wrath as others..Eph 2:3

3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Amen being children of wrath by nature as others is just another way of saying, that we were ungodly..

But one of the Great Gospel doctrines is described in Rom 4:5 is that God justifieth the ungodly..

Now , get this, The elect are Justified before God. by the obedience and righteousness of Jesus christ [Rom 5: 18-19] while we are dead in

tresspasses and sins, while we are by nature children of wrath even as others, and while by lifestyle, ungodly. While we the elect are in this very sinful condition, that we are Justified by Jesus christ blood and clothed in His imputed righteousness, even though we dont know it at the Time, but God knows it , because He is the one who did it..

Rom 8:33-34

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

You see, most false teachers today think that Rom 8 :33 applies to post conversion, but it also applies to pre conversion, for God Justifieth the ungodly, before they are converted..

Thats why its of grace..Titus 3:7

That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Its by grace because of the sinful condtion we are in by nature when we are Justified before God..

I wrote something about the enemy or ungodly tonight called the enemy you might find interesting Gbu and love to you

 

[brightfame52]

Justifieth the Ungodly ! 2

There has been sufficient scripture set forth to prove the premise of Justification before God for those Christ died before Faith or Believing Rom 3:24 as stated earlier and Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Here its too plain that Christ's Resurrection gives evidence of the Justification of those whose sins He was delivered for, some of them not yet even born into the world as sinners, but nevertheless, if Christ was delivered for their offences, His Resurrection declares their Justification !

Also Rom 5:9; Titus 3:7. But now for those of us who deny it and insist that faith or believing is of necessity before one Christ died for is Justified before Him from all sin and condemnation, then We are guilty of thinking that Christ's Blood He shed, alone did not have sufficient merit with God to Justify them. That Christ's Blood needed the added assistance of man's act of faith or believing before God Justified them. So his faith gave the blood of Christ added Value and incentive for God to Justify them, that did Christ's Blood alone:

This treats the Blood of Christ with contempt, for it means that except mans faith is acted, the blood accomplished nothing as to God Justifying a sinner Christ died for.

Again Rom 4:5 makes it clear, the object of the believers Faith is on, "He that is Justifying the ungodly", and if they are being ungodly, they were being unbelievers and even enemies, and God who is Justifying them on the basis of Christ's Blood, as such is justifying them as ungodly and unbelievers, hence He is Justifying them before personal Faith, which Faith evidences their Justification by Christ; So when they do believe, they are believing that they were or had already been Justified by Christ's Blood when or while they were ungodly, for that's what they believe and was persuaded of through the Gospel !

 

[brightfame52]

I wrote something about the enemy or ungodly tonight called the enemy you might find interesting Gbu and love to you

Okay, so what you think about my post you just quoted ? Did you understand the points made ?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

There has been sufficient scripture set forth to prove the premise of Justification before God for those Christ died before Faith or Believing Rom 3:24 as stated earlier and Rom 4:25

no, there has not been "sufficient scripture set forth". Just because you claim to have done so does not equal you having provided the "sufficient scripture" which sets forth that which you claim.

The reason you have not, nor can you, provide "sufficient scripture" to "prove the premise" that a person is justified "before Faith or Believing" is because that is not what we find in Scripture.

What we find in Scripture is that God imputes righteousness WHEN a person believes:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Read Romans 4:3 and 4:5 from your favorite version:

3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED IN (trusted, relied on) GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIS ACCOUNT AS RIGHTEOUSNESS (right living, right standing with God).”

...

5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes andcompletely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

This treats the Blood of Christ with contempt

nope ... did Abraham treat "the Blood of Christ with contempt" when he believed God?

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.


newsflash for you, brightfame52 (aka accuser of the brethren) ... it is those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ who "treat the Blood of Christ with contempt".

Again Rom 4:5 makes it clear, the object of the believers Faith is on, "He that is Justifying the ungodly", and if they are being ungodly, they were being unbelievers and even enemies, and God who is Justifying them on the basis of Christ's Blood, as such is justifying them as ungodly and unbelievers, hence He is Justifying them before personal Faith

read the verse again, brightfame52 (aka accuser of the brethren):

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.

 

[brightfame52]

no, there has not been "sufficient scripture set forth". Just because you claim to have done so does not equal you having provided the "sufficient scripture" which sets forth that which you claim.

The reason you have not, nor can you, provide "sufficient scripture" to "prove the premise" that a person is justified "before Faith or Believing" is because that is not what we find in Scripture.

What we find in Scripture is that God imputes righteousness WHEN a person believes:

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Read Romans 4:3 and 4:5 from your favorite version:

3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED IN (trusted, relied on) GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED TO HIS ACCOUNT AS RIGHTEOUSNESS (right living, right standing with God).”

...

5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes andcompletely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).





nope ... did Abraham treat "the Blood of Christ with contempt" when he believed God?

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.


newsflash for you, brightfame52 (aka accuser of the brethren) ... it is those who do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ who "treat the Blood of Christ with contempt".





read the verse again, brightfame52 (aka accuser of the brethren):

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
.

You still dont believe that God Justified the ungodly, even though scripture declares it.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You still dont believe that God Justified the ungodly, even though scripture declares it.

brightfame52 (aka accuser of the brethren)
.

 

[sondra333]

Okay, so what you think about my post you just quoted ? Did you understand the points made ?

Yes I did and did you receive what I was stating?

 

[brightfame52]

Justifieth the Ungodly ! 3

Justification by Faith is that conscious Justification, a Spiritual Knowledge of it, now in the sight of God. This Knowledge is conveyed to the Spiritually renewed mind by the Gospel as it reveals to their God Given Faith the Righteousness of God that has been Imputed to them Rom 1:16-17

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

God gives His People knowledge of Salvation [ Justification, Forgiveness, Redemption] Lk 1:77

77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

And that's where Justification by Faith commences, when that Knowledge is Given of our Salvation. See Eph 1:13

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Spirit then enlightens our renewed understanding as we see Christ has given full satisfaction for our sins, having been made sin for us or Christ die for our sins 1 Cor 15:3

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

That Christ died for our sins, is the same as " being made sin for us "

 

[brightfame52]

Yes I did and did you receive what I was stating?

It didnt appear to be related to what this thread is about or what I posted. Thats my interest