Who Justifieth the Ungodly

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Mar 23, 2016
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Apparently he doesn’t realize that justification and imputation of righteousness (and non imputation of sin) are the same thing. )

You need both non imputation of sin and imputation of righteousness. It is clear from scripture that God only imputes righteousness to those who believe. And without imputed righteousness, no one is justified.

a. No justification without imputed righteousness. (Grace)

b. Righteousness is only imputed to those who believe.

c. Justification by Grace (imputed righteousness) through faith.
brightfame52 holds his erroneous dogma above the truth of Scripture ...

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Mar 23, 2016
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I highlight verses that are within the context ! They are truth.
There's a reason you refuse to include the context within which the verse sits.

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

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brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Did you note the bit about "his faith"? That means that he put his faith in Jesus.


He died for everyone, but not all shall profit. Did you think everyone was going to Heaven, or are you just trying to muddy the waters on purpose?
False Christ didn't die for everyone. The ones that He did die for were Justified by His Blood.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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justification before God is conditioned upon what God tells us ... and here is what God tells us:


Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

...

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

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Justification is conditioned on what Christ did. You condition Justification on what man does.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Here is how Romans 4:5 appears your favorite version (Amplified):

But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).

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When a person is in a ungodly state he's an unbeliever, so the elect were justified before God while ungodly. That's what Rom 4:5 teaches.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
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There's a reason you refuse to include the context within which the verse sits.

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

.
There is no reason to skip over a truth found within any given context That is negligence.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
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False Christ didn't die for everyone. The ones that He did die for were Justified by His Blood.
Christ died for everyone. The Just died for the unjust that they might be saved.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
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Christ died for everyone. The Just died for the unjust that they might be saved.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
More false statements. 1 Pet 3:18 is about the Elect !
 
Mar 23, 2016
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Justification is conditioned on what Christ did. You condition Justification on what man does.
justification before God is conditioned upon what God tells us.

it is written ...

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

...

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


you either believe or you don't believe what is written. do you (have faith to) believe Scripture?

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
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When a person is in a ungodly state he's an unbeliever, so the elect were justified before God while ungodly. That's what Rom 4:5 teaches.
nope ... Romans 4:5 teaches that the one who believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly do not work ... the One Who justifies establishes the criteria ... not you, not me.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Here is how Romans 4:5 appears your favorite version (Amplified):

But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).


Why do you continue to argue against Scripture? It is clear that faith is not works. What will happen to you, brightfame52, if you actually take God at His Word and believe what He tells you about faith (that faith is not works)???


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Mar 23, 2016
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There is no reason to skip over a truth found within any given context That is negligence.
interesting you make the statement that "[t]here is no reason to skip over a truth found within any given context" ... since that is exactly what you do when you rip a verse from its context.

so you agree you handle God's Word with "negligence" when you rip the verse from its context in order to manipulate Scripture?

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood

(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
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By the Righteousness of One came Justification of Life !

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

That the Obedience of Christ alone, His Righteousness here consist in both His Active and Passive Obedience, and for all whom He represented when He died, the sentence of Justification was passed, Justification of Life. It came upon them, apart from their faith, their repentance, or anything they did.

The word Justification is the greek word dikaiósis:


acquittal, justifying, justification, a process of absolution.

Absolution means:

a freeing from blame or guilt; release from consequences, obligations, or penalties.

Just as by adam's one act or offence, it resulted in condemnation of all men he represented, that was apart from their own act of disobedience personally, so it is with Christ's One act of Righteousness results in Justification of Life for all He represented apart from their own acts of obedience.

This scripture teaches Justification for all whom Christ died before their obedience of Faith.6
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
justification before God is conditioned upon what God tells us.

it is written ...

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

...

Romans 4:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it [Abraham's faith] was counted unto him for righteousness.

...

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

...

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


you either believe or you don't believe what is written. do you (have faith to) believe Scripture?

.
Again Justification is conditioned on what Christ did. You condition Justification on what man does.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
nope ... Romans 4:5 teaches that the one who believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly do not work ... the One Who justifies establishes the criteria ... not you, not me.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Here is how Romans 4:5 appears your favorite version (Amplified):

But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).


Why do you continue to argue against Scripture? It is clear that faith is not works. What will happen to you, brightfame52, if you actually take God at His Word and believe what He tells you about faith (that faith is not works)???

.
Yes, when a person is ungodly, they are not a believer, they are an enemy, an unbeliever.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,264
548
113
interesting you make the statement that "[t]here is no reason to skip over a truth found within any given context" ... since that is exactly what you do when you rip a verse from its context.

so you agree you handle God's Word with "negligence" when you rip the verse from its context in order to manipulate Scripture?

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

.
Right, its careless to skip over what a verse says in any given context.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
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It came upon them, apart from their faith, their repentance
Romans 4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it [righteousness] was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


Peter speaking to the multitudes at the temple after the Lord Jesus Christ ascended into heaven:

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord




brightfame52 said:
scripture teaches Justification for all whom Christ died before their obedience of Faith
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him [God]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he [God] is, and that he [God] is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
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Yes, when a person is ungodly, they are not a believer, they are an enemy, an unbeliever.
Romans 4:5 teaches that the one who believes on Him Who justifies the ungodly do not work ... the One Who justifies establishes the criteria ... not you, not me.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


Here is how Romans 4:5 appears your favorite version (Amplified):

But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).


Why do you continue to argue against Scripture? It is clear that faith is not works. What will happen to you, brightfame52, if you actually take God at His Word and believe what He tells you about faith (that faith is not works)???

.
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Right, its careless to skip over what a verse says in any given context.
so you're not only negligent ... you're also "careless"?

Context = The context of an idea or event is the general situation that relates to it, and which helps it to be understood

(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/context)

If a statement or remark is quoted out of context, the circumstances in which it was said are not correctly reported, so that it seems to mean something different from the meaning that was intended
(https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/out-of-context)

.