Whom He will He hardeneth !
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God has always had a remnant from the Jews ...again
Romans 11:2-5 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:2-5 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:1 "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."
Rom 11:2 "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,"
The "people which He (God) forknew" [v2] the people God had "not cast away" [v1] refers to Christians, not fleshly Israel. Paul tells us later Rom 11 that the fleshly Jews had been cast off, broken off and Gentiles had been grafted in.
In verse 1 Paul identifies himself as being born a fleshly Jew "I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" and contrasts that fleshly Jew to the Christian whom God foreknew.
So when Paul asks "Hath God cast away his people?"
This is a reference to Christians for the fleshly Jews had been cast off. But the fleshly Jews had not been cast off as to where they cannot be saved for Paul used himself as an example of a fleshly Jew who had been saved by converting to Christianity. So those fleshly Jews in Acts 2, who as Paul converted to Christianity, made up that remnant of fleshly Jews that became Christians, the ones God forknew. So anyone, fleshly Jew or Gentile, that becomes a Christian is then part of that people whom God foreknew > Christian.
So fleshly Israel as God's chosen people is over. Paul made an air-tight case on this in Romans 9.
Rom 11:2 "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,"
The "people which He (God) forknew" [v2] the people God had "not cast away" [v1] refers to Christians, not fleshly Israel. Paul tells us later Rom 11 that the fleshly Jews had been cast off, broken off and Gentiles had been grafted in.
In verse 1 Paul identifies himself as being born a fleshly Jew "I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin" and contrasts that fleshly Jew to the Christian whom God foreknew.
So when Paul asks "Hath God cast away his people?"
This is a reference to Christians for the fleshly Jews had been cast off. But the fleshly Jews had not been cast off as to where they cannot be saved for Paul used himself as an example of a fleshly Jew who had been saved by converting to Christianity. So those fleshly Jews in Acts 2, who as Paul converted to Christianity, made up that remnant of fleshly Jews that became Christians, the ones God forknew. So anyone, fleshly Jew or Gentile, that becomes a Christian is then part of that people whom God foreknew > Christian.
So fleshly Israel as God's chosen people is over. Paul made an air-tight case on this in Romans 9.
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No you are, this is what I am saying:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
It is YOU accusing God of forcing men to sin, which makes God the ultimate sinner.
Those vessels cannot fit themselves if God ALREADY fitted them.....you can't make yourself a vessel of wrath if God has already made you a vessel of wrath. You would have no choice but to be what God forced you to be.
Those vessels cannot fit themselves if God ALREADY fitted them.....you can't make yourself a vessel of wrath if God has already made you a vessel of wrath. You would have no choice but to be what God forced you to be.
No you are, this is what I am saying:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
You posted "So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction "
You have God FIRST fitting them for destruction. So they have no choice in the matter, they cannot make themselves vessels of wrath if God ALREADY has done that to them.
Rom 9:22 'What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
2 Pet 3:15 the purpose of God's longsuffering is salvation. Why would God be longsuffering they be saved if God has already predetermined they be lost?
You have God FIRST fitting them for destruction. So they have no choice in the matter, they cannot make themselves vessels of wrath if God ALREADY has done that to them.
Rom 9:22 'What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:"
2 Pet 3:15 the purpose of God's longsuffering is salvation. Why would God be longsuffering they be saved if God has already predetermined they be lost?
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