Whom He will He hardeneth !

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SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#41
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
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#41
svedbygrace said:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
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"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#42
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#42
SeaBass said:
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
Click to expand...
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#43
#43
Wanted to comment on the OP. The Hebrew word for "hardened" gets a tad lost in English translation. When God hardened Pharaoh's heart is better conveyed as God strengthened his heart. God magnified what was in Pharaoh's heart. God removed his fatigue, if you will, as in not tired and able to continue the work Pharaoh wanted to do.
 
J

Jda016

Guest
#44
#44
Karraster said:
Wanted to comment on the OP. The Hebrew word for "hardened" gets a tad lost in English translation. When God hardened Pharaoh's heart is better conveyed as God strengthened his heart. God magnified what was in Pharaoh's heart. God removed his fatigue, if you will, as in not tired and able to continue the work Pharaoh wanted to do.
Click to expand...
Through research, I discovered the same thing.
 
S

Sirk

Guest
#45
#45
The Lord chooses to reveal and to conceal.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#46
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#46
Karraster said:
Wanted to comment on the OP. The Hebrew word for "hardened" gets a tad lost in English translation. When God hardened Pharaoh's heart is better conveyed as God strengthened his heart. God magnified what was in Pharaoh's heart. God removed his fatigue, if you will, as in not tired and able to continue the work Pharaoh wanted to do.
Click to expand...
Pharoah only did what God wanted him to do !
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#47
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#47
svedbygrace said:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
Click to expand...
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#48
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#48
svedbygrace said:
Pharoah only did what God wanted him to do !
Click to expand...
Pharaoh of his own free will did what God foreknew he would do.

It was God's desire Israel go into the wilderness to worship Him. If God forced Pharaoh to harden his heart against his own will and not let Israel go, then God was thwarting His own will in Israel going to the wilderness to worship.
 
A

alan68

Guest
#49
#49
svedbygrace said:
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

You see that ? That's the logical conclusion of this doctrine of the Gospel, If God is the one really in control causing pharaohs disobedient behavior, then why does God find fault with him ? After all he is only doing what God has caused him to do ! How is that Fair ? Now is not that how most of us think about this situation recorded here if indeed God is causing pharaoh to be disobedient and hardened ?
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If God only cared about dealing fairly with us, we would all be bound for hell without hope. God is absolutely sovereign, and his mind and will are beyond our comprehension. God sent warnings and scoldings through the OT prophets about how He used Assyria to punish rebellious Israel, and yet through Nahum He tells of His judgment against Assyrian for its cruelty to Israel. Does this make sense to our feeble minds? No. But that is God. He is not some puffed up person who throws his weight around thinking he is better than everyone else. He IS better than everyone else! In every conceivable way. If I could understand and explain everything about God, I would be more God than He is. It is not His "fairness" we should seek, but His mighty grace.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#50
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#50
SeaBass said:
Pharaoh of his own free will did what God foreknew he would do.

It was God's desire Israel go into the wilderness to worship Him. If God forced Pharaoh to harden his heart against his own will and not let Israel go, then God was thwarting His own will in Israel going to the wilderness to worship.
Click to expand...
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
 
K

Karraster

Guest
#51
#51
Well, looks like we've got another "hard heart", John Kerry, trying to divide the land. He calls it an agreement, so does scripture, "an agreement with death".
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#52
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#52
svedbygrace said:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
Click to expand...
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#53
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#53
SeaBass said:
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
Click to expand...
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#54
Mar 13, 2014
41,590
16,436
113
69
Tennessee
#54
Today, when you hear His voice harden not your hearts...
After a period of time, a persistent attitude will eventually harden into stone.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#55
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#55
svedbygrace said:
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
Click to expand...
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
 
SeaBass

SeaBass

Banned
#56
Mar 12, 2014
6,433
29
0
#56
tourist said:
Today, when you hear His voice harden not your hearts...
After a period of time, a persistent attitude will eventually harden into stone.
Click to expand...
As Pharaoh chose of his own free will to harden his own heart.
 
S

SoliDeoGloria92

Guest
#57
#57
That's not what the bible says though is it.....
 
posthuman

posthuman

Senior Member
#58
Jul 31, 2013
36,937
13,214
113
#58
SeaBass said:
It makes a sinner out of God.
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↑ it makes SeaBass a judge of God -- does that not bother you mate?

what is an higher authority, mankind's futile thoughts, or the Maker of heaven & earth? do we think up what we consider God's character ought to be, and then chastise Him if He acts out? or do we seek to know Him by His revealed word and by the testimony of His Spirit and His prophets?

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
​
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
​
(Romans 9:14-15)


 
RedTent

RedTent

Banned
#59
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
#59
In other words, tell us Dear Lord, what comes first the chicken or the egg?
 
S

svedbygrace

Banned
#60
Jan 21, 2013
2,004
23
0
#60
SeaBass said:
"Both" is not possible. It makes a sinner out of God.
Click to expand...
Its both, that's the whole point, Since God's Will is at work in the creature, whose power is Almighty, then the creatures will can do nothing but conform to what the will of the Almighty's will is. So the vessels of wrath fit themselves for destruction because God fits them to destruction !
 
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