Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
When was the Holy of Holies anointed?
in the context of Dan 9. It will be after the second one was destroyed By the people of the future prince,

so you tell me, when was the holy place in the new temple anointed?

I believe someone already showed you in exes when it WILL be anointed.

but you figure it out
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
in the context of Dan 9. It will be after the second one was destroyed By the people of the future prince,

so you tell me, when was the holy place in the new temple anointed?

I believe someone already showed you in exes when it WILL be anointed.

but you figure it out
Right so let's recap then:

1) The Temple has been destroyed but Daniel knows it must be rebuilt
2) He asks and receives a reply from God regarding this and other matters
3) He is told there are 70 heptads of prophetic time on the Jerusalem and Israel to enact certain things including the anointing of the Holy of Holies
4) He is told that a Command will go out to rebuild the Temple which is the starting point of the 70 heptads
[The Temple is duly rebuilt within 21 years - in the sixth year of King Darius.]
5) The temple will be destroyed in the 70th heptad

So we see the Temple rebuilt and then destroyed.

But you are saying that the Temple is rebuilt, then destroyed, then rebuilt and then destroyed again, and that in this second reconstruction, the Holy of Holies will be anointed, an event which nonetheless did not happen with the First rebuilding..................
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
113
Character is never irrelevant - it makes the difference between telling the truth and telling a lie.
I disagree. Perception of character makes the difference between assuming someone is telling the truth and presuming they are lying.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Right so let's recap then:

The Temple has been destroyed but Daniel knows it must be rebuilt
There was no temple in Daniels day. So in any interpretation. Daniel understand a temple must be rebuilt
He asks and receives a reply from God regarding this and other matters
Daniels prayer is for his people and his city

Dan 9: 16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake [cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”

He is told there are 70 heptads of prophetic time on the Jerusalem and Israel to enact certain things including the anointing of the Holy of Holies
He said at the end of 70 heptads. Those things WILL be accomplished.

He never said anything about maybe they will be.. or that Israel must do something.

4) He is told that a Command will go out to rebuild the Temple which is the starting point of the 70 heptads
[The Temple is duly rebuilt within 21 years - in the sixth year of King Darius.]
He never said anything About the temple. He said the command to restore the CITY. This command was not given until Nehemiah 2, when Nehemiah requested to the king to allow him to go and rebuild the CITY, and Artexerxes gave the command.

Neh 2: 4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?” So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”

Far to many people take the command to rebuild the temple as the starting date. And in doing so. Get it wrong.

5) The temple will be destroyed in the 70th heptad
The temple is destroyed about 4 decades after the 69th heptad. So I am not sure what your saying here
So we see the Temple rebuilt and then destroyed.
Are you saying the temple was not destroyed?
But you are saying that the Temple is rebuilt, then destroyed, then rebuilt and then destroyed again, and that in this second reconstruction, the Holy of Holies will be anointed, an event which nonetheless did not happen with the First rebuilding..................

I never said it would be DESTROYED AGAIN! Those are you words not mine

Again you need to learn how to discern what people are saying
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
I disagree. Perception of character makes the difference between assuming someone is telling the truth and presuming they are lying.
Establishing Josephus' character now is a bit tricky I think.
Saying he was a traitor could be like saying the whites in Russia were traitors and the reds were the good guys,
or that the Praetorian guard who killed a crazy Caesar were traitors.
I'm not sure of the point of this avenue.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
There was no temple in Daniels day. So in any interpretation. Daniel understand a temple must be rebuilt

Daniels prayer is for his people and his city

Dan 9: 16 “O Lord, according to all Your righteousness, I pray, let Your anger and Your fury be turned away from Your city Jerusalem, Your holy mountain; because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and Your people are a reproach to all those around us. 17 Now therefore, our God, hear the prayer of Your servant, and his supplications, and for the Lord’s sake [cause Your face to shine on Your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline Your ear and hear; open Your eyes and see our desolations, and the city which is called by Your name; for we do not present our supplications before You because of our righteous deeds, but because of Your great mercies. 19 O Lord, hear! O Lord, forgive! O Lord, listen and act! Do not delay for Your own sake, my God, for Your city and Your people are called by Your name.”



He said at the end of 70 heptads. Those things WILL be accomplished.

He never said anything about maybe they will be.. or that Israel must do something.


He never said anything About the temple. He said the command to restore the CITY. This command was not given until Nehemiah 2, when Nehemiah requested to the king to allow him to go and rebuild the CITY, and Artexerxes gave the command.

Neh 2: 4 Then the king said to me, “What do you request?” So I prayed to the God of heaven. 5 And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”

Far to many people take the command to rebuild the temple as the starting date. And in doing so. Get it wrong.



The temple is destroyed about 4 decades after the 69th heptad. So I am not sure what your saying here

Are you saying the temple was not destroyed?



I never said it would be DESTROYED AGAIN! Those are you words not mine

Again you need to learn how to discern what people are saying
Well if you are going to disregard the scriptures in such a flagrant and divisive way, then you really
make a coherent conversation impossible, let alone proper scriptural study and understanding.
I could say more, but I think I just block you now.
 
Oct 23, 2020
971
164
43
"FROM" and "UNTO the Messiah prince" is "7 Weeks [/Sevens] and 62 Weeks [/Sevens]"... AFTER which is the "CUT OFF" thing (re: Him)... and then the 70ad things are next in the SEQUENCE [/passage]... and the text still hasn't yet come to the "FOR ONE WEEK [7 years]" part, see... It's a SEQUENTIAL passage (agreeing with all other passages on this Subject, in THIS SAME SEQUENCE, elsewhere in Scripture ;) )

So for you this is between the 69th and 70th weeks:ROFL:

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Well if you are going to disregard the scriptures in such a flagrant and divisive way, then you really
make a coherent conversation impossible, let alone proper scriptural study and understanding.
I could say more, but I think I just block you now.
I get it

You misrepresent me

Instead of repenting, and admitting you made a mistake. and asking for clarification of what I really said, you block me when I call you out for it

You make conversation impossible when you fail to understand what the other person said. and keep insisting he said it

I NEVER SAID THE SECOND TEMPLE WILL BE DESTROYED.

You can hide all you want. But when you accuse someone of saying something they never said and refuse to see what was really said. then run. It just makes you look bad
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
So for you this is between the 69th and 70th weeks:ROFL:

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
well it came almost 4 decades after the 69th week. So you tell us
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,874
2,111
113
You make conversation impossible when you fail to understand what the other person said. and keep insisting he said it

I NEVER SAID THE SECOND TEMPLE WILL BE DESTROYED.
Yeah... I think he/OS means (by his use of the word "destroyed")... where the scripture says (at that point) "[he shall make it] desolate" v.27... [as in, abomination of "desolation"]... not sure

OS: But you are saying that the Temple is rebuilt, then destroyed, then rebuilt and then destroyed again, and that in this second reconstruction, the Holy of Holies will be anointed, an event which nonetheless did not happen with the First rebuilding..................
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,553
8,106
113
Daniel 9:24-27 is written SEQUENTIALLY (so the "CUT OFF and have nothing [or, but not for himself]" [32ad] comes before the events surrounding 70ad ['shall destroy the city and the sanctuary'], and that comes before the "FOR ONE WEEK [7 yrs]" [yet future]... as all other prophetic scriptures on this Subject align / agree with this SEQUENCE)

Consider...

Parallel passages:

A. Matthew 24:29-31 -
"29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light, [<--this is NOT "moon into BLOOD" 6th Seal]
and the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes [5443 phylḗ (throughout Scripture [279x more or less] "tribe/tribes" is used only of Israel)] of the earth will mourn. And they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great trumpet call, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the ends [plural] of the heavens [plural] to the ends thereof [plural]." [from the extremities, WHERE SCATTERED (Israel has been "scattered")]


A. Isaiah 27:9,12-13 -
"6 In the days to come, Jacob will take root.
Israel will bud and blossom
and fill the whole world with fruit.
7 Has the LORD struck Israel as He struck her oppressors?
Was she killed like those who slayed her?
8 By warfare and exile You contended with her
and removed her with a fierce wind,
as on the day the east wind blows.
9 Therefore Jacob’s guilt will be atoned for,
and the full fruit of the removal of his sin will be this:
[See Rom11:27 and Dan9:24b, below]
When he makes all the altar stones
like crushed bits of chalk,
no Asherah poles or incense altars
will remain standing.
[...]
12 In that day the LORD will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, O Israelites, will be gathered one by one. 13 And in that day a great ram’s horn [/trumpet] will sound, and those who were perishing in Assyria will come forth with those who were exiles in Egypt. And they will worship the LORD on the holy mountain in Jerusalem."


A. Romans 11:27 -
"25 For I do not want you to be ignorant, brothers, of this mystery, so that you may not be wise in yourselves: A hardening in part has happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles may [/be] come in [G1525]. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it has been written:
“The One Delivering will come out of Zion,
He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.
27 And this is the covenant from Me to them,
when I shall take away their sins.”
[See Isaiah 27, quoted above]
28 For as regards the gospel, they are enemies on account of you; but as regards election, beloved on account of the patriarchs. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.


A. Daniel 9:24 -
Berean Study Bible -
"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
[or]
King James Bible-
"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."


A. Hosea 5:14-6:3 -
14 For I am like a lion to Ephraim
and like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them to pieces
and then go away
.
I will carry them off
where no one can rescue them. [see Luke 21:24a "and they shall be led away captive into all the nations"]
15 Then I will return to My place [i.e. in 32ad]
until they admit their guilt and seek My face;
in their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
6:1 Come, let us [Israel] return to the LORD.
For He has torn us [Israel] to pieces,
but He will heal us [Israel];
He has wounded us [Israel],
but He will bind up our [Israel's] wounds.
2 After two days He will revive us [Israel];
on/IN the third day He will raise us [Israel] up,
that we [Israel] may live in His presence. [See Isaiah 27:12-13, quoted above; See also Isaiah 24:21-23, esp v.23 (where in this passage, the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words of this passage corresponds with Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5--at the Armageddon time-slot, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth)]
3 So let us [Israel] know—
let us [Israel] press on to know the LORD.
As surely as the sun rises, [the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect OF the "DOTL" time period (whereas the "IN THE NIGHT / DARK / DARKNESS" is the "7-yr TRIB" aspect OF it, immediately PRECEDING and LEADING UP TO this point)])
He will appear;
He will come to us [Israel] like the rain,
like the spring showers that water the earth [/like the former/early/spring rains unto the earth]."



[there's much more...]


Acts 3:21 - "whom indeed it behooves heaven to receive until the times of restoration OF ALL THINGS OF WHICH GOD SPOKE BY/THROUGH [dia] the mouth of His holy prophets from the age."
Just thought I would add this....

Isa 34:1-4
1Come near, you nations, to hear;
And heed, you people!
Let the earth hear, and all that is in it,
The world and all things that come forth from it.
2For the indignation of the Lord is against all nations,
And His fury against all their armies;

He has utterly destroyed them,
He has given them over to the slaughter.
3Also their slain shall be thrown out;
Their stench shall rise from their corpses,
And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4All the host of heaven shall be dissolved,
And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll;
All their host shall fall down

As the leaf falls from the vine,
And as fruit falling from a fig tree

Isa 35
1The wilderness and the wasteland shall be glad for them,
And the desert shall rejoice and blossom as the rose;
2It shall blossom abundantly and rejoice,
Even with joy and singing.
The glory of Lebanon shall be given to it,
The excellence of Carmel and Sharon.
They shall see the glory of the Lord,
The excellency of our God.
3Strengthen the [c]weak hands,
And make firm the [d]feeble knees.
4Say to those who are fearful-hearted,
“Be strong, do not fear!
Behold, your God will come with vengeance,
With the recompense of God;
He will come and save you.”
5Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened,
And the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.
6Then the lame shall leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the dumb sing.
For waters shall burst forth in the wilderness,
And streams in the desert.
7The parched ground shall become a pool,
And the thirsty land springs of water;
In the habitation of jackals, where each lay,
There shall be grass with reeds and rushes.
8A highway shall be there, and a road,
And it shall be called the Highway of Holiness.
The unclean shall not pass over it,
But it shall be for others.
Whoever walks the road, although a fool,
Shall not go astray.
9No lion shall be there,
Nor shall any ravenous beast go up on it;
It shall not be found there.
But the redeemed shall walk there,
10And the ransomed of the Lord shall return,
And come to Zion with singing,
With everlasting joy on their heads.
They shall obtain joy and gladness,
And sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Yeah... I think he/OS means (by his use of the word "destroyed")... where the scripture says (at that point) "[he shall make it] desolate" v.27... [as in, abomination of "desolation"]... not sure
an abomination of desolation is an unclean thing or idol placed in a holy place rendering it desolate. or unclean.

Its not the same as destruction.,

the temple is not destroyed. its rendered unclean.

Hence his ,misunderstanding, But instead of clarifying to make sure he understood me. He would rather blame shift and mock me

its on him. not me.
 

randyk

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2021
902
268
63
Pacific NW USA
LOL

You sure have a funny idea about what 'confirmed' means...
Luke 1.54 He has helped his servant Israel remembering to be merciful 55 to Abraham and his descendants forever, just as he promised our ancestors.”
Rom 15.8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed.


The idea that Jesus came to confirm the promises God made to the Patriarchs is completely sensible, and is very Scriptural. It may be debatable what Dan 9.27 means. But the idea that Christ "confirmed" the Abrahamic promises is completely sensible!

Dan 9.27 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’

What this means to me is that Messiah would complete the 70 Weeks prophecy by bringing about a confirmation of the Abrahamic Covenant at some point within the 70th Week. He did this when he was "cut off' and brought an end to offerings under the Law, completing all that was necessary for Israel's salvation. And this took place in the middle of the Week. That is, the 70th Week was completed as only a Half-Week.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
113
Establishing Josephus' character now is a bit tricky I think.
Saying he was a traitor could be like saying the whites in Russia were traitors and the reds were the good guys,
or that the Praetorian guard who killed a crazy Caesar were traitors.
I'm not sure of the point of this avenue.
My point is that outright dismissal of Josephus’ writings based on an opinion of his (supposed) character is foolish.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Luke 1.54 He has helped his servant Israel remembering to be merciful 55 to Abraham and his descendants forever, just as he promised our ancestors.”
Rom 15.8 For I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, so that the promises made to the patriarchs might be confirmed.


The idea that Jesus came to confirm the promises God made to the Patriarchs is completely sensible, and is very Scriptural. It may be debatable what Dan 9.27 means. But the idea that Christ "confirmed" the Abrahamic promises is completely sensible!

Dan 9.27 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’

What this means to me is that Messiah would complete the 70 Weeks prophecy by bringing about a confirmation of the Abrahamic Covenant at some point within the 70th Week. He did this when he was "cut off' and brought an end to offerings under the Law, completing all that was necessary for Israel's salvation. And this took place in the middle of the Week. That is, the 70th Week was completed as only a Half-Week.
The abrahamic covenant is an eternal covenant

So how do we get it to be only 7 years?
 

Hakawaka

Active member
Jul 1, 2021
307
157
43
this is my favorite subject. It is nice to have a calm conversation, even if we end up disagreeing I thank you for that,


one thing to remember, even though the temple in Jesus day was run by unsaved priests and Gods presence in the Holy Place was long since gone, and the very priests who ran it crucified Christ, Jesus still called it his fathers house,
Great point I believe this is most likely to happen in the future, a literal temple.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,553
8,106
113
My point is that outright dismissal of Josephus’ writings based on an opinion of his (supposed) character is foolish.
Luke 12-24 is in fact unique in the trilogy of Matt 24 and Mark 13. How people can fail to apprehend the stark differences (and the significance thereof) is utterly inconceivable to me.

Likewise advocating Preterism has one begging for substantially biblical cogent rational arguments (being so profoundly absurd) and leaves one bewildered by its affiliates despite its paucity and vacuousness.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Great point I believe this is most likely to happen in the future, a literal temple.
Amen sister.

Even if it is first built in sin. which is sad..
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,325
13,713
113
Luke 12-24 is in fact unique in the trilogy of Matt 24 and Mark 13. How people can fail to apprehend the stark differences (and the significance thereof) is utterly inconceivable to me.

Likewise advocating Preterism has one begging for substantially biblical cogent rational arguments (being so profoundly absurd) and leaves one bewildered by its affiliates despite its paucity and vacuousness.
Your verbal effluent does nothing for your position. It’s just opinion without evidence, dressed in a ball gown for a ball game.